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[No Spoilers] EP404 Discussion

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Non-spoiler discussion of the show goes here, for those who've not read the books or those who have but are happy to not actually reference them at all in discussion, taking each episode as it comes.

This topic should open automatically when the show begins airing.

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Great episode! I like the part with Margery's grandmother, and finding out she was part of the plot with Little Finger!



My guess is Little Finger kills who he's going to marry, then hits on Sansa. Afterwards, Hound and Arya meet up with Sansa, then the Hound kills Little Finger for Sansa and marries Sansa.



Stannis will march on the wall, then punish Locke by cutting off his hand, like Locke did with Jaime. Eventually Jaime and Locke will fight each other, both with one hand each. Stannis is pretty evil, so maybe he'll imprison Jon Snow because he was Robb Stark's brother. Maybe have Jon Snow burned to death (Jon will eventually come out alive, because he's too important of a character - no one else seems important up North)



Bran will escape somehow, too early for him to die. If he dies, his whole storyline will be a waste. Also, that little boy will shoot Ygritte and kill her for revenge.



Margery will marry Tommen, but Cersei will eventually find out and punish her. Or perhaps Margery will get Tommen to execute Cersei first. But Tywin is still in control... so there will be a power struggle between Margery and Tywin. I expect Tywin to lose, and possibly die.



As for Danaerys, I don't really care too much about their plot, it's taking forever to reach Westeros! I hope that Gray Worm and the translator hook up though, they seem to be such a cute couple :)



Also, I expect Jaime to fight for Tyrion as his champion at his trial. But Tywin and Cersei won't let him, so Tyrion will probably need to find a new champion - maybe the Dornish guy who likes to have sex a lot? I hope the Dornish guy dies, all he does is have sex, he's getting annoying. Hope Jaime dies for raping Cersei too, among other despicable deeds - like killling his nephew, trying to kill Bran, and injuring Ned Stark. Maybe Cersei will have him executed. Or maybe the horny dude, Oberyn, will be Cersei's champion, while Jaime will be Tyrion's, and Jaime will die to Oberyn.



The rape at Craster's Keep was a bit much, but the best part of Game of Thrones is it's realism. Rape, incest and misogyny were very common in European culture throughout history, even today.



Can't wait for next episode!


Edited by AryaSansa

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The rape at Craster's Keep was a bit much, but the best part of Game of Thrones is it's realism.

I particularly enjoy its neo-realistic depiction of dragons & white walkers.

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Also, I expect Jaime to fight for Tyrion as his champion at his trial. But Tywin and Cersei won't let him

i dont believe that possible, Jaime is not left handed, he can't fight. I believe the only chance Tyrion has is to run away

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I particularly enjoy its neo-realistic depiction of dragons & white walkers.

Well, AryaSansa did say the BEST parts were the realistic ones. Which, is an opinion I can appreciate.

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As for Danaerys, I don't really care too much about their plot, it's taking forever to reach Westeros! I hope that Gray Worm and the translator hook up though, they seem to be such a cute couple :)

Except that Gray Worm has no cock so I hope he's good at other things

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I particularly enjoy its neo-realistic depiction of dragons & white walkers.

To me, realism in a fantasy show is less about science, but more about consistency in the rules of the universe, and the character motivations. :cheers:

i dont believe that possible, Jaime is not left handed, he can't fight. I believe the only chance Tyrion has is to run away

True, but why else would they devote so much time to Jaime's sword-training, unless he is to fight someone later on? :fencing: :dunno: It seems odd that the Lannisters were so forgiving of Jaime's hand being cut off - I would have expected them to seek retribution. Another possible plotline could be Locke's journey to redemption and make him into a good guy - slim chance, but it would be cool to see him change into a good person by being around Jon Snow. Maybe Jon Snow saves his life? :idea:

Except that Gray Worm has no cock so I hope he's good at other things

Well he still has his tongue and his fingers, so as long as he knows how to use them :wub: :love: :smileysex:

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True, but why else would they devote so much time to Jaime's sword-training, unless he is to fight someone later on? :fencing: :dunno: It seems odd that the Lannisters were so forgiving of Jaime's hand being cut off - I would have expected them to seek retribution. Another possible plotline could be Locke's journey to redemption and make him into a good guy - slim chance, but it would be cool to see him change into a good person by being around Jon Snow. Maybe Jon Snow saves his life? :idea:

i believe Jaime would fight, but not for Tyrion, Cersei would do anything to kill Tyrion and probably use a humungus knight or something like that, and Jaime can bearly fight Bronn, it would take him years to learn, Tyrion has like a month tops (besides in the trailer of the season there's a fight between the prince Oberyn and some enourmous guy, my guess is the mountain, maybe that's Tyrion's trial)

The training of Jaime is all about he's ashamed he can't do the only thing he was good at, fighting.

I don't believe there's any redemption from Locke, it's quite clear that guy is some manipulative sadistic asshole, he would do anything to bring the Stark boys to the Bolton's keep.

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i believe Jaime would fight, but not for Tyrion, Cersei would do anything to kill Tyrion and probably use a humungus knight or something like that, and Jaime can bearly fight Bronn, it would take him years to learn, Tyrion has like a month tops (besides in the trailer of the season there's a fight between the prince Oberyn and some enourmous guy, my guess is the mountain, maybe that's Tyrion's trial)

The training of Jaime is all about he's ashamed he can't do the only thing he was good at, fighting.

I don't believe there's any redemption from Locke, it's quite clear that guy is some manipulative sadistic asshole, he would do anything to bring the Stark boys to the Bolton's keep.

Oh that would be a good fight. Finally somthing for Oberyn to do besides have sex. I wonder why Tommen doesn't just pardon Tyrion? Or at least talk to him... they should at least show Tommen being denied by Cersei. Tyrion is a popular character, so I doubt he'll die - Sean Bean died, but the shock value of execution is gone now, so his chances of survival will be higher.

Maybe Locke becomes a spy for Bolton when he can't kill Bran. Bran will definitely make it out alive or else his whole storyline will be a waste.

I still think Jaime will fight with his left again. Seems like such a waste of a storyline... Jaime loses a fight, almost dies, but uses a dirty trick taught by Bronn to save himself and kill his opponent :) I wish he didn't give his sword away though, what will he use now? Maybe he can use Joffrey's sword?

Would have been nice to see Margary let Tommen touch her exposed breast, just to show that there's no social boundary she's won't cross to achieve her goal. Margary feels too wholesome now, would be nice to give her a dark side.

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In King's Landing:



You can tell that Jaime and Cersei are not as close as they used to be, even more so after the rape. Weird to see Jaime do many things the opposite of what she wanted him to do:



she wanted him to kill tyrion : he goes and talks to him, believes he didn't kill joffery, seems like he wants to help him somehow and tells him he wont kill him


she wants Sansa to be killed: he sends of brienne(with his sword) and pod to go and protect sansa



seems like there is now way tyrion survives the whole ordeal but just got a feeling he prolly will,



at the wall



jon seems to be getting respect from the fellow nights watch, except for the higher ups who still dont seem to like them, they think they are sending him to his death but sure jon will be able to pull it out, i guess locke isn't a highborn/noble if no one is able to recognize him? pretty fancy coincidence that he was set by bolton to kill bran and rickon and bran just happens to be going the place where him and jon are heading? why would he volunteer for the mission north of the wall if he was sent to kill bran? he has no clue they are north of the wall, is he just going to try and kill jon? no news from the wildlings they have to be getting closer



Mereen


no big surprise dany is able to take over the city, feel like she is starting to bite off more than she can chew, only a matter of time before the slaves start acting up, is this the last city she takes over before she heads west?



no sign of theon or ramsey, guess they are still on mission to take over whatever castle it was that bolton said, also no sign of theon's sister this season, as she is still supposed to be on the way to save theon,



little finger still has something up his sleeve for sansa, no way he is doing it just to do it, unless the martells told him they wanted her safe which is possible

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I liked the swirly Valerian steel in Oathkeeper, didnt notice it in Joffrey's sword.



I also liked Dany's new hair-do, those Meereenese know how to do a nice braid.


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at the wall

jon seems to be getting respect from the fellow nights watch, except for the higher ups who still dont seem to like them, they think they are sending him to his death but sure jon will be able to pull it out, i guess locke isn't a highborn/noble if no one is able to recognize him? pretty fancy coincidence that he was set by bolton to kill bran and rickon and bran just happens to be going the place where him and jon are heading? why would he volunteer for the mission north of the wall if he was sent to kill bran? he has no clue they are north of the wall, is he just going to try and kill jon? no news from the wildlings they have to be getting closer

Didn't Locke overhear Jon talking to Sam about Bran? Even if he didn't hear anything, he's probably sticking close to Jon in order to find out if he's hiding his brothers somewhere.

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Didn't Locke overhear Jon talking to Sam about Bran? Even if he didn't hear anything, he's probably sticking close to Jon in order to find out if he's hiding his brothers somewhere.

yeah i think he at least showed up in the room when they were talking/ at the end of when they were talking so he might of overheard something, any chance you think locke turns good? maybe if he's north of the wall and they run into a white walker and realizes the potential danger the whole realm is in he sides with jon

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This is episode had some insanely good scenes, and unfortunately some rather cheesy ones. What I would particularly like to comment on is Dany's storyline. Whenever she's on screen I feel a bit bored, and that usually never is the case when GoT is on TV. To me, her scenes are definitely the weakest part of an otherwise outstanding season 04 that is shaping up to be the best of this show so far.



While Dany's storyline was easily one of the most fascinating ones back when the show started, it has become less and less interesting to me throughout season 3 and season 4 so far. I find it somewhat repetitive to see her free one slave city after another. While it was rather epic when she killed Kraznys, freed Astapor and acquired the army of Unsullied the rest of the slave cities were pretty stereotypical and the scenes in which she freed them somewhat anticlimactic. "Kill The Masters", written in a language that the slaves apparently don't even speak - I mean seriously... The problem with Dany's storyline is that, although I'm sure what she's doing now - getting armies, watching as her dragons grow stronger with every day - will have major implications in the future, it's so detached from what's going on in Westeros. All the other storylines seem interwoven at least to a certain extent, but Dany's is almost like an entirely separate story. I think it's time she heads to Westeros. I don't necessarily expect her to actually get there anytime soon, but I've had enough of slave cities, friendzoned Mr. Mormont and smooth-talking Dario. Her storyline needs a new twist, a new direction. She also needs to experience some major setback - a dragon could get ill, one of her counselors (Mormont maybe?) dies etc., something upsetting. So far it's been all smooth sailing for her ever since she left Qarth.

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Would have been nice to see Margary let Tommen touch her exposed breast, just to show that there's no social boundary she's won't cross to achieve her goal. Margary feels too wholesome now, would be nice to give her a dark side.

From the way I read that scene, is that she had every intention of doing that, if needed, but after talking to him for a couple of minutes realized she wouldn't have to in order to get Tommen on her side.

Edited by Ser Steven

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This is episode had some insanely good scenes, and unfortunately some rather cheesy ones. What I would particularly like to comment on is Dany's storyline. Whenever she's on screen I feel a bit bored, and that usually never is the case when GoT is on TV. To me, her scenes are definitely the weakest part of an otherwise outstanding season 04 that is shaping up to be the best of this show so far.

While Dany's storyline was easily one of the most fascinating ones back when the show started, it has become less and less interesting to me throughout season 3 and season 4 so far. I find it somewhat repetitive to see her free one slave city after another. While it was rather epic when she killed Kraznys, freed Astapor and acquired the army of Unsullied the rest of the slave cities were pretty stereotypical and the scenes in which she freed them somewhat anticlimactic. "Kill The Masters", written in a language that the slaves apparently don't even speak - I mean seriously... The problem with Dany's storyline is that, although I'm sure what she's doing now - getting armies, watching as her dragons grow stronger with every day - will have major implications in the future, it's so detached from what's going on in Westeros. All the other storylines seem interwoven at least to a certain extent, but Dany's is almost like an entirely separate story. I think it's time she heads to Westeros. I don't necessarily expect her to actually get there anytime soon, but I've had enough of slave cities, friendzoned Mr. Mormont and smooth-talking Dario. Her storyline needs a new twist, a new direction. She also needs to experience some major setback - a dragon could get ill, one of her counselors (Mormont maybe?) dies etc., something upsetting. So far it's been all smooth sailing for her ever since she left Qarth.

Dany needs Khal Drogo :love:

Khal Drogo is the #1 hottest guy on Game of Thrones! :wub:

I agree with the Dany storyline though - pretty formulaic and boring.

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i think dany will start seeing some opposition over the next couple of episodes, think she is starting to outkick her coverage, she will/should have trouble controlling however many slaves it is, 2 cities worth 200,000?ish think she has too much power comparative to what she actually does, her armies and generals for lack of a better term do all the work


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