Can a Jon Snow + Daenerys romance work in the final book? Part 2

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Perhaps, but as long as Jon is the bastard of the "usurper's dog" to her, she probably wants him to see her as a queen, and I'm not sure she would be attracted to him before realizing that he is Rhaegar's son anyway - unless Jon was a king in his own right (but then she would regard him as another usurper). However, even if she does fall in love simply with Jon Snow and even if she does want him to see her as a woman, not as a queen, she can only want him as a lover (who could be disposed of if she should get married), and they would not be equal. Jon would be too proud to enter a relationship like this - and he would probably be too busy to play that role, too.

Well there is alot to happen in the next book. Dany doesn't know the full story of the rebellion. And I'm pretty sure if she finds out about it she will be very sympathetic to the Stark children especially since their situation of their home being taken from them is almost similar to hers. I don't see how they will not be equal or Jon would be too proud, Rhaegar was the crowned Prince with a wife yet Lyanna still seemed to love him, and we all know how willful Ned described her as.

I don't think there is anything like "busy", GRRM is writing a humane story and love and romance are all part of that. I'm not arguing that its 100% Dany and Jon will have a romantic relationship, but its also something we shouldn't dismiss as a possibility especially since he was represented as a sweet rose to Dany in the HOTU.

[Julia H.]

You're making a lot of assumptions about the positions of both characters in the upcoming novels.

I could equally say that, by the time they meet, Dany will have learned the truth about her father's madness. Maybe she won't want to take a lover, but still feels something for Jon Snow (this is what happened with Daario, after all).

The bottom line is that Dany is on the hunt for the other heads of the dragon. They're going to cross paths; they're going to spend time together. And come on, both of them are obviously going to fall in love with someone else before the end of the series, so who are the other candidates? Neither Val nor Arianne have been cast on the TV show, and although I hate to allow the show to influence my theories, I think it would be unlikely that they hold such importance as to be Jon's main love interest. Similarly, Daario has "temporary love interest" written all over him, and Dany's other suitors are in no way suitable.

I'm only trying to imagine specific scenarios in which they might meet. There are lots of possibilities, I know. As long as Dany is a queen and Jon is just Jon Snow, their only relationship can be like a Dany - Daario relationship, that or platonic longing. A queen cannot marry just anybody. But I can't see Jon in a Daario role. If Dany sheds her dragon queen persona - for example, the two of them get stranded in the Frostfangs with no servants or queensguard around - that might be a very different scenario.

I can also imagine that by the time they meet, Jon will have learned who his father was, but the rest of the realm will not know it. Dany will not know. That would also make for a different scenario.

Well there is alot to happen in the next book. Dany doesn't know the full story of the rebellion. And I'm pretty sure if she finds out about it she will be very sympathetic to the Stark children especially since their situation of their home being taken from them is almost similar to hers. I don't see how they will not be equal or Jon would be too proud, Rhaegar was the crowned Prince with a wife yet Lyanna still seemed to love him, and we all know how willful Ned described her as.

I don't think there is anything like "busy", GRRM is writing a humane story and love and romance are all part of that. I'm not arguing that its 100% Dany and Jon will have a romantic relationship, but its also something we shouldn't dismiss as a possibility especially since he was represented as a sweet rose to Dany in the HOTU.

They would not be equal because of the social conventions.

Jon is not Lyanna. I think Lyanna's choice may have been running away with Rhaegar or marrying Robert. For a woman, it is natural that her husband is her lord. By "too busy", I mean that Jon will have a different role to play than that of a second Daario (saving the realm, making various discoveries and coming to terms with them). I'm not saying he won't have time to fall in love, but he has a tendency to deny himself his own needs in the name of duty.

I'm not so sure that Jon and Dany (together or separately) are necessarily destined to live happily ever after. :worried: I'm just hoping that the promised "bittersweet ending" will be more sweet than bitter...

[PatrickStormborn]

I'm only trying to imagine specific scenarios in which they might meet. There are lots of possibilities, I know. As long as Dany is a queen and Jon is just Jon Snow, their only relationship can be like a Dany - Daario relationship, that or platonic longing. A queen cannot marry just anybody. But I can't see Jon in a Daario role. If Dany sheds her dragon queen persona - for example, the two of them get stranded in the Frostfangs with no servants or queensguard around - that might be a very different scenario.

I can also imagine that by the time they meet, Jon will have learned who his father was, but the rest of the realm will not know it. Dany will not know. That would also make for a different scenario.

First of all, you're making a leap in assuming that they will want to pursue a relationship. Perhaps, like I suggested, they would merely be interested in each other but recognise the impracticality of a romantic relationship (i.e. like Daenerys and Daario for the majority of their relationship).

And I would seriously question your theory that Jon will know his birth by the time they meet. I imagine the truth of Jon's parentage to be revealed quite late in the game (GRRM has said that further information about Rhaegar and Lyanna will most likely be in the final book). And I could equally argue that Dany will be the one who knows the truth.

[Ellfoy]

Julia H. : What I mean about the foreshadowings was something like : if you think that the anti-incest talk is important in Jon's arc, that's because logically he is going to be confronted with it. If not, what's the point of the anti-incest talk except saying "incest is bad" which we already know by Joffrey example ?

[Julia H.]

First of all, you're making a leap in assuming that they will want to pursue a relationship. Perhaps, like I suggested, they would merely be interested in each other but recognise the impracticality of a romantic relationship (i.e. like Daenerys and Daario for the majority of their relationship).

And I would seriously question your theory that Jon will know his birth by the time they meet. I imagine the truth of Jon's parentage to be revealed quite late in the game (GRRM has said that further information about Rhaegar and Lyanna will most likely be in the final book). And I could equally argue that Dany will be the one who knows the truth.

Given that my original standpoint is a no to the Dany - Jon romance, I don't think I'm assuming anything about the details of such a romance any more than other people do. We all necessarily make certain assumptions when we talk about what might happen in the coming books, while none of us really knows. Someone upthread suggested they may be attracted to each other before the R+L=J revelation (so they would not know about the incest thing), and even to this, my first reaction was that Dany may not be interested in Jon at all before the revelation, and then, for the sake of the argument, I still imagined her being interested in simply Jon Snow, and then I said it could lead to a Daario-like relationship at most. Of course, they may just decide that it is impractical. That would be the most likely thing for them to do because of the social conventions and because Jon is not a Daario. So no romance. Essentially that was the conclusion I aimed at.

My suggestion that Jon alone may know the truth about his parentage when they meet... not a theory, only a possibility. There are several readers out there who suggest Jon may find out the truth through a coma dream (pursuing his earlier crypt dream to its conclusion) after the stabbing. If it so happens, then it will probably happen early in the next book, and there will necessarily be a period when he alone (with the exception of Howland Reed and I don't know who else) knows who his real parents were. At the same time, Dany may find it out only after meeting Jon (if she ever finds out). If GRRM wants it otherwise ... well he alone knows what he wants. I kind of hope that the revelation to Jon will be sort of private at first because I imagine it will be a lot to handle. But do we know in which book Dany and Jon will meet? From where we are now, there still seems to be a lot of story for both of them before they end up in the same place.

Julia H. : What I mean about the foreshadowings was something like : if you think that the anti-incest talk is important in Jon's arc, that's because logically he is going to be confronted with it. If not, what's the point of the anti-incest talk except saying "incest is bad" which we already know by Joffrey example ?

That is a fair point. If the cultural divide that I outlined uphtread is relevant, it will be natural for Dany to want to marry Jon when (and if) she finds out that Jon is Rhaegar's son (supposing she believes it, supposing Jon or someone else can and wants to prove it). I think she even muses about it somewhere that she could have married Rhaegar's son if he had not been killed. (Talk about foreshadowing.) Such a union would be natural from her viewpoint (setting aside the question of how much they would like each other, personally). However, with Jon being on the other end of the scale, he will probably not want it. I don't think he will necessarily recall Ygritte's precise words (though he often does that), it may just be that he does not warm to Dany enough to want to marry her. Or Ygritte's words could foreshadow that something will happen to prevent their marriage (meaning they are not destined for each other). I have seen suggestions that they will have a relationship but it will be disastrous. That would be quite sad, IMO. I'd much rather they were happy separately than unhappy together. All in all, I simply think that those words about exogamy are significant storywise, and they sound like a warning to me, but whether they are a warning to Jon or only to the reader, I can't tell.

Or perhaps they mean that Jon will steal Dany when the Thief is in the Moonmaid (defying her dragons), and carry her off to the far North as a true man should. :P (Definitely not a theory.)

[Hodor's Dragon]

I'm not remembering the details of this, but doesn't Dany reject Daario as a potential husband more because he's shallow than because he's not a fitting match for her?

I know we get a very full explanation of why she rejects Jorah, and it's not because of his station in life, even though he is only the exiled and foresworn son of a minor lord and hardly a fit match for a Targaryen.

[nastydream]

I'm not remembering the details of this, but doesn't Dany reject Daario as a potential husband more because he's shallow than because he's not a fitting match for her?

I know we get a very full explanation of why she rejects Jorah, and it's not because of his station in life, even though he is only the exiled and foresworn son of a minor lord and hardly a fit match for a Targaryen.

IIRC She rejects Daario because he is too lowborn for her.That's it.

[LordStoneheart]

IIRC She rejects Daario because he is too lowborn for her.That's it.

Which is a very smart decision, I might add

[Hodor's Dragon]

Which is a very smart decision, I might add

Well, it's smart to reject Daario as a husband, but I'm not sure it's smart to reject him for that reason. I just spent a few minutes looking for the passage where she decides he's not husband material, and couldn't find it, but I'd like to see it.

Because Jorah is likewise way below her proper marriage status, but I do know her reasons for rejecting him, and they are not related to status. (Plus she kinda seems ready to at least think about unrejecting him at the end of ADWD, although that's a serious moment of weakness and desperation, so it probably won't carry over to when she actually meets him again, as it seems very likely she will.)

[LordStoneheart]

Very good reason. A good marriage can make or break her campaign and she already let one slip out of her fingers and into the dragon pit...

She already has the storm crows and jorah has no lands or soldiers... A marriage to either is just kind of dumb

[Hodor's Dragon]

Very good reason. A good marriage can make or break her campaign and she already let one slip out of her fingers and into the dragon pit...

She already has the storm crows and jorah has no lands or soldiers... A marriage to either is just kind of dumb

I'll bet her first try at a political marriage soured her on the idea. I hope she marries for love next time. Not for a crush or infatuation - for love.

I try not to "pull for" things too much when I'm in the middle of a book (or series), but I really do hope that Dany finds love. She wants it, she has a big heart, and she can use it.

[nastydream]

but I really do hope that Dany finds love. She wants it, she has a big heart, and she can use it.

My sweet summer child....

:leaving: now leave b4 grrm sees this and kills dany

[LordStoneheart]

I'll bet her first try at a political marriage soured her on the idea. I hope she marries for love next time. Not for a crush or infatuation - for love.

I try not to "pull for" things too much when I'm in the middle of a book (or series), but I really do hope that Dany finds love. She wants it, she has a big heart, and she can use it.

Oh I know, I think it would be awesome if she married for love (one reason I'm even in this thread. ) I'm just saying that her reason for no Jorah or daario marriage is valid. And neither I think she'd be happy married to.

[wolfmaid7]

How can Jon have a type when he only had one relationship ? Ygritte is the type of the first woman/love, the one you don't forget, but that doesn't mean she is his type becasue there's nothing to compare it too. Until then Jon had a policy of no fucking girls, not even whores for fear to father a bastard. He fuck her because he throw herself into his arms.

And what is Dany's type Daario and Drogo are totally different.

Subtly yes he does you see it plainly in the women he come in contact with you see what he finds attractive and a woman like Dany aint it.Lets take into consideration Ygritte and Val there is a danger to them that he is drawn to.To put simply women that could cut your throat while you slept.He's not just attracted to strong women he's attracted to women that could kill him.There is even an attraction to Mel,when you read between the lines that air of danger is about her as well and it peaks his interest.

If Dany is Jon's Aunt that is not going to fly either.

Dany finds attractive in men what Jon finds attractive in women they have the same taste,but it is not each other.

[Hodor's Dragon]

Subtly yes he does you see it plainly in the women he come in contact with you see what he finds attractive -> snip

Yes, you do, you see that he's attracted to pretty much any halfway good-looking woman he comes across, like any other normal 16-year-old.

[wolfmaid7]

Yes, you do, you see that he's attracted to pretty much any halfway good-looking woman he comes across, like any other normal 16-year-old.

Then you must be reading a different book,and what's the point of this thread then. He's 16-17 and will screw her because she's decent looking (nevermind she could possibly be his aunt).She's 16 and will screw him gods know why.So it will work why? Because according to you they are raging hormones that will just screw each other because that's what 16yr old do :ohwell:

[Hodor's Dragon]

Then you must be reading a different book,and what's the point of this thread then. He's 16-17 and will screw her because she's decent looking (nevermind she could possibly be his aunt).She's 16 and will screw him gods know why.So it will work why? Because according to you they are raging hormones that will just crew each other because that's what 16yr old do :ohwell:

I think you put a word or two in my mouth.

[wolfmaid7]

I think you put a word or two in my mouth.

Eh I went with your line of thinking, which is because Jon

Is a 16yr old boy he'll essentially sleep with anything decent. Well Dany is around the same age right, so by that logic it follows.So they'll both hook up because they are 16 and that's what they do.

My point is the time is different, and maturity in a society that has kids getting bethrode at 11 and 15 most likely wouldn't be able exact duplicate of our lifestyle.

Jon in how he spoke about Ygritte and Val and what he specifically pointed out as a quality is what he's attracted to and its that quality that makes them dangerous.

If I misunderstood your train if thought , my bad.

[Hodor's Dragon]

Eh I went with your line of thinking, which is because Jon

Is a 16yr old boy he'll essentially sleep with anything decent. Well Dany is around the same age right, so by that logic it follows.So they'll both hook up because they are 16 and that's what they do.

My point is the time is different, and maturity in a society that has kids getting bethrode at 11 and 15 most likely wouldn't be able exact duplicate of our lifestyle.

Jon in how he spoke about Ygritte and Val and what he specifically pointed out as a quality is what he's attracted to and its that quality that makes them dangerous.

If I misunderstood your train if thought , my bad.

Thank you for your last line. You did misunderstand my train of thought, you ran it well on down the track. I said none of that, I said he would be attracted to her. Period. I didn't say he was going to jump her bones.

I know something about this Jon Snow guy myself. He's kind of formal and reserved. Sex stuff embarrasses him a bit. If they meet under circumstances that are conducive to romance and they're both interested - and given the right circumstances, I think they would be - she'll probably have to make the first move. Ygritte all but raped him. And we know Dany likes it on top.

But I don't think the fact that he found two of the only cute girls within a hundred miles attractive says much at all about what "type" he is interested in. They're cute, he's a teen-ager. Dany's also cute and he'll still be a teen-ager if and when he meets her. That's chemical and has little to do with societal expectations; even the damned Victorians couldn't eliminate it and nobody ever tried harder. I would hope for Jon to rise above seeing people as "types," anyway, and see them as individuals. And I think he would. That's the bastard in him coming out.

[Debra Morgan]

What do you think about it?

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/showbiz/431543/Game-of-Thrones-Kit-Harington-hints-at-Daenerys-romance

I don't understand: he hints on Jon/Dany romance in the begining, but says that Jon is one-woman man later. Or does he think that romantic relationships impossible for Jon this season?