Raw Milk v. Raw Fish, Steak tartare, and raw oysters

[paddington]

Darjeeling is a light black tea: Assam is a dark black tea.

I share Paddington's opinion on UHT milk, but I'm a heathen who puts a splash of milk even in green and white tea.

I drink green tea with milk as well :O. I perfer full fat milk, with a nice thick layer of cream at the top. I am suprised that UHT milk is popular in France.

[Aemon Stark]

Pasteurization is done for a very good reason. Tuberculosis alone killed millions of people before the wholescale adoption of pasteurization for milk, one of the best breeding grounds there is for pathogenic bacteria. As some one who has actually lived on a farm and had raw milk fed to me, I know I have dodged a huge bullet.

The common form of TB is not Mycobacterium bovis, which is the type that can be transmitted through contact with cattle or contaminated raw milk.

[lokisnow]

The FDA or congress doesn't need to legalize the sale of raw milk. They just need to the loosen the restrictions so dairies can make proper fresh cheeses. so we can get real creme fraiche. So we can get real cultured butter. The liquid stuff that people drink should be pasteurized, but if you're culturing or fermenting dairy to make other products, producers should be allowed to use raw milk.

[Heidrun]

The FDA or congress doesn't need to legalize the sale of raw milk. They just need to the loosen the restrictions so dairies can make proper fresh cheeses. so we can get real creme fraiche. So we can get real cultured butter. The liquid stuff that people drink should be pasteurized, but if you're culturing or fermenting dairy to make other products, producers should be allowed to use raw milk.

There is a local company MOO (Michigan's Own Organics) that makes cheeses with raw milk. They have to be aged for 60 days before hitting the shelves.

I'm sure there are some other companies that do as well, but it has to come from a Grade A dairy. Many times cheese and cheese products (cheese whiz, etc) are made with Grade B milk (slightly higher bacteria count and not cooled as quickly).

[Deedles]

Ixodes,

Yes, I've seen it. Raw milk is not banned in SC.

I understand why industrially produced milk needs to be pasturized. I'm not advocating for all milk to be raw. I'm saying that in small batches and carefully controlled conditions the risk of drinking raw milk is no worse than the risk of eating raw oysters.

Tell my grandad that when he got brucellosis on his clean, grass fed, dairy farm after buying a new cow. All my family drink pasteurised milk after that fiasco. It cost them a lot of money due to the risk of cross contamination, and grandad a few months in hospital. Raw milk, thanks but no thanks.

[Sixshells]

Anyone else tried microfiltered? It's supposed to be close to raw milk in taste ans nutrient content.

[rawmilkmike]

Why are farmers being raided by people who insist they are only there to help? We seem to have forgotten the very purpose of food regulation. “and that government of the people, by the people, for the people" should not perish from the earth.

Strict regulation can increase the price of raw milk by a factor of ten. That's just another way to make it unavailable. They are creating a problem where none exists. The CDC rejects our empirical evidence while admitting they have none of their own.

Paddington, these are real armed raids, just like on TV. Sparrowyn, the FDA is certainly not concerned with the safety of any food or drug. Besides, it's their job to address our concerns not their own. They are in fact ignoring our concerns. They haven't even seen fit to check if our claims are true. Also keep in mind that our claims are coming from millions of health conscious raw milk consumers not a $4 trillion a year industry that profits from human suffering.

Our government keeps telling us fresh milk is unsafe but according to these 2 US government studies raw milk actually has a negative risk factor.

1. Raw Milk Consumption among Patients with Non–Outbreak-related Enteric Infections, Minnesota, USA, 2001–2010 by Trisha J. Robinson, Joni M. Scheftel, and Kirk E. Smith

An estimated 17.3% of raw milk consumers in Minnesota may have acquired an illness caused by 1 of these enteric pathogens during the 10-year study period. (That's 1.7% per year.) or (1 in 59)

wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/20/1/pdfs/12-0920.pdf

2. About 48 million people (That's 15% per year or 1 in 6 Americans) get sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 3,000 die each year from foodborne diseases, according to new estimates from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

www.cdc.gov/media/pressrel/2010/r101215.html

When you look at these 2 studies you can see that the US Center for Disease Control has inadvertently demonstrated that people who don't drink raw milk are 9 times more likely to contract a so called foodborne illness. In other words raw milk prevents 1.3 million cases of foodborne disease and 90 deaths every year in the US.

People that switch to raw milk and who drink a couple of glasses a day, know it has health benefits in a matter weeks and know it is safe in a matter of months.

[rawmilkmike]

Brucellosis: It can also spread through the air or through an open wound. In the U.S., there are up to 200 new cases of brucellosis annually. The people most at risk are those who work with animals and raw meat. A variety of animals can contract brucellosis, including goats, cattle, and dogs. Humans can then contract the disease from infected animals. The bacteria are transmitted through inhalation or contact with an open wound. This is why you are at higher risk of being infected if you are frequently around animals. Risk is particularly high for people who come in contact with animal urine, blood, or tissue. The placenta may also be infected with Brucella spp. You may be exposed to the disease if you help an animal through the birthing process. Infection is rare without blood or tissue contact. For reasons not clearly understood, children are more resistant than adults to brucellosis. In humans, acute brucellosis lasts for two weeks and then may abate, but the symptoms often return with waves of fever in recurring bouts of illness for about six months or a year. The infection then ceases in most people,

[Aemon Stark]

Our government keeps telling us fresh milk is unsafe but according to these 2 US government studies raw milk actually has a negative risk factor.

1. Raw Milk Consumption among Patients with Non–Outbreak-related Enteric Infections, Minnesota, USA, 2001–2010 by Trisha J. Robinson, Joni M. Scheftel, and Kirk E. Smith

An estimated 17.3% of raw milk consumers in Minnesota may have acquired an illness caused by 1 of these enteric pathogens during the 10-year study period. (That's 1.7% per year.) or (1 in 59)

wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/20/1/pdfs/12-0920.pdf

2. About 48 million people (That's 15% per year or 1 in 6 Americans) get sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 3,000 die each year from foodborne diseases, according to new estimates from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

www.cdc.gov/media/pressrel/2010/r101215.html

When you look at these 2 studies you can see that the US Center for Disease Control has inadvertently demonstrated that people who don't drink raw milk are 9 times more likely to contract a so called foodborne illness. In other words raw milk prevents 1.3 million cases of foodborne disease and 90 deaths every year in the US.

[Seli]

Hmm, so assuming the population makeup of raw milk consumers does not different significantly from the general population. That data suggests unless the average person is consuming less than 10 potentially contaminated foods, raw milk is a very high risk product indeed. Thanks for the confirmation.

*assuming my maths are correct at this time of the day.

Eta: Simply going by the sunmaries one study only looks at raw milk, the other pools all food infections.

[Lily Valley]

Listeria does well in all raw milk cheese. It thrives in cold weather.

The Dangers of Listeria and Pregnancy

Pregnant women run a serious risk of becomin}g ill from the bacteria Listeria which can cause miscarriage, fetal death or illness or death of a newborn. If you are pregnant, consuming raw milk - or foods made from raw milk, such as Mexican-style cheese like Queso Blanco or Queso Fresco - can harm your baby even if you don't feel sick.

[sologdin]

scot, the black death may have killed 200M. i don't know how i'd handle the burden of guilt you must bear.

[Elder Sister]

Rawmilkmike, are you for real, man? I'm kind of in awe of your dedication.

I can barely be bothered to post, much less create a whole different alt devoted to my cause.

Rock on, RAWMILKMIKE.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Sologdin,

I'm not advocating people stop trying to kill off fleas. As such I don't see how imwould bear any guilt at all.

[sologdin]

but scot, your yersinia-laden raw milks have killed so many. you're the hitler of fine dairy products, or something.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Sologdin,

You're saying my evil plot is to rule the world through raw milk legalization?

[Angalin]

This thread reminds me of this episode of Chef. "If a small proportion of my customers drop dead from eating real Stilton, well, they died in a good cause and happy." I now envisage Ser Scot as Lenny Henry.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Angalin,

That only works if you insist threre is never any risk from the food you eat. There is always some risk.

[Aemon Stark]

Well, no, there is not always "some risk" if food is prepared and stored properly. The cavalier attitude on display here is troubling - it's not as if food-borne illness is some subtlety of antiquity.

[Angalin]

Scot, did you watch that clip or not? Go away and watch it, you daredevil. :p

Some foods carry bigger risks than others, that's why there are rules about production and handling. I'm fine with you drinking raw milk, Scot, but I do want strong restrictions on its production and sale.