igrewupinKL Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Kind of how I felt about it, but I think her "gradual" arc that she has in ASOS/AFFC wouldn't have worked so well through the TV medium. LF is getting sloppy in AFFC, but it is odd that he had such a lack of any plan. And I agree Book!Sansa wouldn't be that obvious, but I think without us being privy to her thoughts, Show!Sansa has to take more of a direct route. But overall, I just loved it. It was the Sansa mothafu**ing Stark of Winterfell show this week and it was glorious. Also, my last comment on her dress, but it was definitely warlock tier 8. it was good scene at the end when Sansa finally stands proud. I just don't like her progression. Especially this early in the series. I don't agree with it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonBranRickon Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 On the boat she was being taught the game. The episode after that she's still on the boat, in the cabin this time and all she does is repeat what LF had told her last time. The episode after that she's building snow castles. This episode she's the female Machiavelli. It is quite a transformation.II believe she has been manipulating people all along. Joffery, didn't touch her, The Hound basically reapeated her words back to her whe her at the battle of Blackwater, Tyrion couldn't/wouldn't have sex with her, Petyr is doing her bidding. Only perhaps Joffrey was not under her spell but he was crazy. The onlything changing here is that she no longer using her child like manipulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranzadule Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 The differences between the Sansa of this episode and the Sansa of the book are numerous and I think portentous. (Is that a word?)One of the great things about this series is that the differences with the book offer some answers, questions and insights. I am certain now that Sansa is making the dramatic change from "stupid little rich girl" to a marvelous Machiavellian femme fatale with a hitlist at least as long as her little sister's. I approve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inv1ctus Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Sad thing is that George has no one to blame but himself for this. He's had plenty of time to finish this series but he is milking this cash cow for all that is worth at the expense of his series, potential, legacy. If the show finishes before the books it just will not be the same as it could have been. George has said in many of interviews he enjoys his dump trucks full of money. The world traveling, the writing an episode a season, the side projects, the tv spots, etc are all things that take GRRM out of the one room he will write in and further delay the release of this damn book, let alone another after it. And it's looking more and more like the show is going to pass the books before it's all said and done, especially knowing that TWOW is not coming out this year. It will be a real slap in the face to his avid readers for them to have to avoid the internet for 5 years while he finishes ADOS because he wanted to cash in. Blame himself for what? I really doubt he feels bad about this. He is doing a lot of things now instead of writing yeah, but before the series began he was probably spending a huge amount of time for the books. So I say let him live a little. ;) About the slap in the face, I think the slap will be just fine towards many of spoiling morons out there, the tables will be turned a little bit, which is fun. By this time next year, the show will be ahead of the most storylines from the books. I really believe his motivation for writing is gone. He knows how the story ends and he also knows that the story will be told either way, if he ever writes all the books or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonBranRickon Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 it was good scene at the end when Sansa finally stands proud. I just don't like her progression. Especially this early in the series. I don't agree with it at all. I suspect Season 5 will have less of Sansa and more GreyJoy and Martell - Also, when is Baylon going to mysteriously die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellybelle Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 "Lady Stark, you may yet outlive us all" Tyrion Lannister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Just a minor point but I really liked the actors who played Yon Royce and the female lord (who I remember is in AFFC but her name escapes me). Even without any introductions they did a good job and had enough presence to threaten Littlefinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 After this episode you're not thinking it's more likely that she'll try and sexually manipulate him? I don't see neither book LF nor show LF like to be manipulated. Book LF clearly hated Tyrion for outplaying him. Show LF saw that Sansa is not Lysa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonBranRickon Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Anya Waynwood - She is a distant relative to the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igrewupinKL Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I suspect Season 5 will have less of Sansa and more GreyJoy and Martell - Also, when is Baylon going to mysteriously die? She'll have about the same screen time as she did this season. Like Theon, they can't push her aside. She is a main character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabellaVidal Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 /@Bran's legsYou're forgetting that Margaery has also had a part in Sansa's development in the show, if not in the books. I also think that the show has rapidly changed her because the actress is much older and is sort of a compensation for book-Sansa's developing sexuality. The Hound is not ever present in her thoughts on the show, there is no Dontos pursuing her constantly, no Tyrion baring himself before her sexually and being rejected, no Marillion trying to rape her. There is just Petyr. The Sansa of the novels is already on a rapid sexual trajectory that the shows just hasn't explored yet. The book reader is aware that she has her own particular leanings and is in some way capable of dealing with this side of Petyr. The show hasn't done that and they need the viewer to know that Sansa is not a naive little girl anymore. Shows usually have a more visual way of conveying this. Sophie Turner hadn't been the right age to portray her sexual development in a show that would have garnered a negative response to any such scene. They apparently are making up for all that lack in this one episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 "Lady Stark, you may yet outlive us all" Tyrion Lannister Love it. I want a supercut of everyone who's ever underestimated her (Cersei saying there's not much of the North in her, Olenna saying she was boring, etc.) and then splice it next to her "let's blow this joint" moment. I suspect Season 5 will have less of Sansa and more GreyJoy and Martell - Also, when is Baylon going to mysteriously die? Yeah, I'm thinking that her role will be paired down (though firmly in TWOW material). Balon may die early next season to setup the Kingsmoot. I thought this might be cut at first, but they were creating buy-in with Yara and her Dreadfort adventures, so now not so sure. She'll have about the same screen time as she did this season. Like Theon, they can't push her aside. She is a main character. Isn't Bran? He's in 4 episodes this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabellaVidal Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Has Ran commented on the Sansa aspect of the episode yet? Would be interesting to know if the events of the episode had any relevance to the "Controversial" chapter in TWOW.Exactly what I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Sansa, the black swan made me remember Rogue prince spoiler: The Lyseni became especially loathed, for they claimed more than coin from passing ships, taking off women, girls, and comely young boys to serve in their pleasure gardens and pillow houses. (Amongst those thus enslaved was Lady Johanna Swann, a fifteen-year-old niece of the Lord of Stonehelm. When her infamously niggardly uncle refused to pay the ransom, she was sold to a pillow house, where she rose to become the celebrated courtesan known as the Black Swan, and ruler of Lys in all but name. Alas, her tale, however fascinating, has no bearing upon our present history). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Thinking about it, I think the show is also moving to the point that LF will purposefully rape Sansa to get her completely under his power and decrease her value as a precious maid. From LF’s point of view, Sansa might offer her hand to a lord’s son to have them arrest LF for the crime of killing Lysa and Joffrey. LF has no army whereas the Vale lords might raise 20k swords quickly. If LF rapes Sansa and claims her maidenhead, Sansa cannot convince the Vale Lords about the true nature of LF. They will think that Sansa and LF are lovers and conspired together to kill Lysa. After all, she told them about the kiss and the jealousy of Lysa and how she committed suicide. These will all be questioned if she goes to them sobbing and claiming that LF raped her. This strategy of LF (i.e. raping Sansa) sounds somewhat similar to how Vargo Hoat maimed Jaime’s hand for the book readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabellaVidal Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 The differences between the Sansa of this episode and the Sansa of the book are numerous and I think portentous. (Is that a word?)One of the great things about this series is that the differences with the book offer some answers, questions and insights. I am certain now that Sansa is making the dramatic change from "stupid little rich girl" to a marvelous Machiavellian femme fatale with a hitlist at least as long as her little sister's. I approve.Daenerys beware. She has a strong rival here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 If LF rapes Sansa and claims her maidenhead, Sansa cannot convince the Vale Lords about the true nature of LF. They will think that Sansa and LF are lovers and conspired together to kill Lysa. After all, she told them about the kiss and the jealousy of Lysa and how she committed suicide. These will all be questioned if she goes to them sobbing and claiming that LF raped her. This strategy of LF (i.e. raping Sansa) sounds somewhat similar to how Vargo Hoat maimed Jaime’s hand for the book readers. I think if she told them she was raped they'd believe her. They're already super suspicious of LF, and have no reason to trust him. We may have to disagree, but that episode showed me that Sansa can/does/will manipulate LF. Their power dynamic has completely shifted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonBranRickon Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 /@Bran's legsYou're forgetting that Margaery has also had a part in Sansa's development in the show, if not in the books.I also think that the show has rapidly changed her because the actress is much older and is sort of a compensation for book-Sansa's developing sexuality. The Hound is not ever present in her thoughts on the show, there is no Dontos pursuing her constantly, no Tyrion baring himself before her sexually and being rejected, no Marillion trying to rape her. There is just Petyr. The Sansa of the novels is already on a rapid sexual trajectory that the shows just hasn't explored yet. The book reader is aware that she has her own particular leanings and is in some way capable of dealing with this side of Petyr. The show hasn't done that and they need the viewer to know that Sansa is not a naive little girl anymore. Shows usually have a more visual way of conveying this. Sophie Turner hadn't been the right age to portray her sexual development in a show that would have garnered a negative response to any such scene. They apparently are making up for all that lack in this one episode.In the past her sexuality was one of being unaware of her sexuality (girlish) ... The show has turned her into a women much like Cersei. That is a big change not yet explored in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 it was good scene at the end when Sansa finally stands proud. I just don't like her progression. Especially this early in the series. I don't agree with it at all. I too would love a scene where Sansa manipulates LF, befriends Anya Waynwood and Bronze Yohn Royce... however in the former, LF should not know that he is being manipulated, for the reason below. I don't see neither book LF nor show LF like to be manipulated. Book LF clearly hated Tyrion for outplaying him. Show LF saw that Sansa is not Lysa. Basically LF, doesn't like being manipulated (nobody does frankly) or being beaten (though LF is an unnaturally sore loser), so LF should believe the whole time that Sansa is a sweet innocent little girl, and truly believe it when she seems to come to love him... until that absolute moment when the axe falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igrewupinKL Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Isn't Bran? He's in 4 episodes this season. I meant that her screen time will remain consistent with previous seasons. Bran hasn't had much screen time in previous seasons either. Exactly voodooqueen126, its just too early. totally out of character, and yes too obvious. LF now knows Sansa can be a master manipulator and that she is using him, unless he is completely blinded by his infatuation with her. Would not be surprised, honestly, they have already done so much disservice to his character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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