(BOOK SPOILERS) Discussing Sansa XI: Lies and Arbor Gold

[ahighbornlady]

Interesting situation... I do hope that Sansa's subtle affection for Petyr is just "lies and Arbor Gold." I am also 95% sure that this was TWoW material (partially, at least.) I'm a little bit frightened as well... Sansa did seem devious in black. The terror and possibilities and spoilers, scary indeed.

I felt like she was being genuine when she said he was her only friend, sadly. I don't doubt she feels some loyalty and affection towards him at this point.

I thought it was kinda early for her to be giving him a coy smile as she struts down the stairs though.

[ahighbornlady]

I don't have a problem with Sansa's feathery dress. The Arryn sigil is the falcon, so I'd assume the lady of the Vale whose clothes Sansa is borrowing would have bird like features. The same way the Tully armor looked like fish scales last year. It's not a "feather, omg evil" thing at all.

I thought the feathers were a nod to her taking on Littlefinger's mockingbird sigil as Alayne.

[Petyr Patter]

Let me throw out a question. Does anyone else suspect Littlefinger is going to be dead by the end of the season?

Basically, in this episode Littlefinger gets the Lords of the Vale on his side. This is something he was still working on in A Feast for Crows. Harold Hardyng seemed like a means to that end. At this point, we are out of published book material for Sansa. Suposedly, the Sansa chapter cut from A Dance of Dragons started a new plot for her. The woods witch the Brotherhood goes to did prophecy Sansa would slay a giant... which is Baelish's family sigil. So, a lot of poster think she will kill Baelish. Maybe that death is coming sooner than we think.

Now, they could have used the entirity of next season to show Sansa developing her skills. The only thing they needed to show was Sansa's skill as at lying, and that would have been enough. Instead, they are RUSHING her as a "player." Perhaps for a reason.

Other thoughts.

• All these thoughts of black birds, and no one thinks "crows," aka the Night's Watch where the only family Sansa knows is still alive is? Worth to think about.
  
• Sansa made that dress herself. I think this is an intentional call back to episode 1, when she tells Cersei she makes her own dress.
  

[Florina Laufeyson]

All these thoughts of black birds, and no one thinks "crows," aka the Night's Watch where the only family Sansa knows is still alive is? Worth to think about.

Oh hey! That and the bastard image. Nice one, mate.

Instead, they are RUSHING her as a "player." Perhaps for a reason.

Yeah i think theres some sort of plot point that drops soon that may require a bump up in her development. Its a little quick and in-your-face, but i do know its more than just a ploy to get us to like her more. I know where part of her future plot is going but im not sure about what comes after that. So its kinda exciting. I think the raven dress is a bit much too soon but we'll see.

[Newstar]

Sansa made that dress herself. I think this is an intentional call back to episode 1, when she tells Cersei she makes her own dress.

The fact that Sansa made it herself, along with jewelry that she herself selected, is a neat way of underlining that she is taking control of her own destiny. The purple Blackwater dress she was wearing earlier in the episode was one she received in KL that was probably made for her by the Lannisters, just as the ring she was wearing was one she received from the Lannisters.

The costume designer has talked about Sansa imitating her female role models through her hair and dress at various instances, but it's clear with her new hair and dress in the show that she's done imitating others, as her decisions to dye her hair and to dress as she does are entirely her own.

Yeah i think theres some sort of plot point that drops soon that may require a bump up in her development.

Maybe. It occurred to me after my initial excitement about D&D speeding through Sansa's AFFC arc that this Vale tour could just be a non-book filler arc to kill time.

[Faolchú]

Could anyone else feel Petyr's Sansa-boner poke them through the TV when she was lying for him?

[Florina Laufeyson]

Let me throw out a question. Does anyone else suspect Littlefinger is going to be dead by the end of the season?

Nah not this season. Too soon. Next season? Maybe but i dunno. That feels like a season 6 bomb.

[JonDunn]

I think LF dies in TWOW, 100 percent.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Well, I have to say that they kinda killed book!Sansa in the show here, but booooooy how I loved this episode. I've separated book from show some time ago, so I don't really mind what they did in this episode. Sansa is becoming a player, and a lot faster than we think. I honestly haven't seen any negative comment about Sansa with regards to this episode (not on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr etc.) which makes me more happy than it should.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Well, I have to say that they kinda killed book!Sansa in the show here, but booooooy how I loved this episode. I've separated book from show some time ago, so I don't really mind what they did in this episode. Sansa is becoming a player, and a lot faster than we think. I honestly haven't seen any negative comment about Sansa with regards to this episode (not on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr etc.) which makes me more happy than it should.

Hey, it makes me smile when the Sansanista comes in and says she digs it.

[Sun]

I keep wondering if Sansa in the Black Widow costume is a spoiler. I can't help thinking that it is.

I think with the changes they fast tracked Sansa's arc here, psychologically and mentally, past where we are in the books.

[Emperoreddy]

My guess is the storyline they are moving forward with from here with her is a Vale conspiracy story. The Lord's know who Sansa is, and I assume the wedding with Robin is still at least planned. LF's speech about about backing Robin since Robb Stark is dead. So the first time is to get the whole of the Vale to see Robin as a growing strong leader, not the weak sickly boy, and also for LF and I assume Sansa to get their fingers around him. Suddenly the Vale has a willing partner in the heir and the key to the north and her "mentor" and they can grow the power to push back the Lannester's and make their own play.

If their is any tension about Sansa's identity it will come from outside the Vale. The Bolton's or Cersei possibly learning who she is.

Though I do wonder about Robin. LF's speech about everyone dieing and then Sansa just appearing saying "ready to go?". I REALLY got this vibe that Robin isn't coming back from his tour of the Vale and these two know it.

[Raksha 2014]

My guess is the storyline they are moving forward with from here with her is a Vale conspiracy story. The Lord's know who Sansa is, and I assume the wedding with Robin is still at least planned. LF's speech about about backing Robin since Robb Stark is dead. So the first time is to get the whole of the Vale to see Robin as a growing strong leader, not the weak sickly boy, and also for LF and I assume Sansa to get their fingers around him. Suddenly the Vale has a willing partner in the heir and the key to the north and her "mentor" and they can grow the power to push back the Lannester's and make their own play.

If their is any tension about Sansa's identity it will come from outside the Vale. The Bolton's or Cersei possibly learning who she is.

Though I do wonder about Robin. LF's speech about everyone dieing and then Sansa just appearing saying "ready to go?". I REALLY got this vibe that Robin isn't coming back from his tour of the Vale and these two know it.

Except that if Robin doesn't come back from their tour, what pretext does Littlefinger have for being Lord Protector of the Vale? With Robin dead, Royce & co. are likely to send LF packing while they keep Sansa and marry her to Harry-the-Heir (or, if they think she was complicit in the boy's death, send her to King's Landing in chains. Littlefinger needs Robin to live while he solidifies his hold on the Eyrie/Vale.

[Hippocras]

Let me throw out a question. Does anyone else suspect Littlefinger is going to be dead by the end of the season?

Basically, in this episode Littlefinger gets the Lords of the Vale on his side. This is something he was still working on in A Feast for Crows. Harold Hardyng seemed like a means to that end. At this point, we are out of published book material for Sansa. Suposedly, the Sansa chapter cut from A Dance of Dragons started a new plot for her. The woods witch the Brotherhood goes to did prophecy Sansa would slay a giant... which is Baelish's family sigil. So, a lot of poster think she will kill Baelish. Maybe that death is coming sooner than we think.

Now, they could have used the entirity of next season to show Sansa developing her skills. The only thing they needed to show was Sansa's skill as at lying, and that would have been enough. Instead, they are RUSHING her as a "player." Perhaps for a reason.

Other thoughts.

• All these thoughts of black birds, and no one thinks "crows," aka the Night's Watch where the only family Sansa knows is still alive is? Worth to think about.

Sansa made that dress herself. I think this is an intentional call back to episode 1, when she tells Cersei she makes her own dress.

No, Sansa and LF still have to win over Sweet Robin - last interaction, Sansa slapped him while in the books he starts to think of her as both his mother and bedmate by the time they leave the Eyrie.

Also, Sansa needs to be shown to be gaining political skills, and to be piecing together slowly what LF is up to.

LF will not die this season. Maybe next season, but if so, not until near the end. The show has just changed up the order of things a bit for Sansa.

But for the rest of this season, Sansa's storyline will be pure plot development and no more major drama. The battle at the Wall, Tyrion's exit from KL, Stannis's arrival and Ramsay's betrothal to fArya will the the major drama points of the rest of this season.

And Arya leaving for Braavos I guess.

[Batman]

I am the only one who thought the costume and the way they shot Sansa in it was terrible? Probably. Well I stand by it anyway.

[High without honor]

I am the only one who thought the costume and the way they shot Sansa in it was terrible? Probably. Well I stand by it anyway.

It was definitely overdone. Annoyed the hell out of me. I think making her intentions to Littlefinger less obvious would have benefited her more.

[Valandui]

*pitches camp in the thread*

I drink your tears, fandom. I guzzle them!

Im so smug right now, I can barely stand me. Wowowowowwowow.

So...Sansa totally plays LF like a fucking fiddle and its awesome. His visible shock was fantastic. While hes still convinced shes on his side and for now, i think she is. Because she doesnt know things yet. (she dont know about Ned yet. Thats when i think that shoe will drop.) She goes for a Villainous Costume Change. Or at least thats what it looks like. That dress is kinda vampy and im not convinced that Lysa actually had that in her closets. Hoo well, at least her hair is not red and shes gone full Alayne.

Yeah see umm..i think these guys are going to actually not be super behind LF in the show either. They are gonna back Sansa and the idea of her union with Sweetrobin. I actually think this is whats up there.

I can't agree more. My initial reaction was WTSF?, but then I realized that it actually didn't change too much of anything from a functional standpoint, especially considering Nestor Royce's non-existence. Still, I can't help but feel like this is the episode where the show and the books officially became two completely separate entities.

[Raksha 2014]

I am the only one who thought the costume and the way they shot Sansa in it was terrible? Probably. Well I stand by it anyway.

She's a very pretty girl, but the dark hair didn't suit her and the hairstyle made her face seem more puffy. They could have dyed her hair a medium brown, it would have suited her complexion better.

[jons nissa]

My thoughts:

1. Yes, Sansa knows LF wants her and is playing it. LF implies she doesn't know what he wants, but clearly he does want Sansa, so he is vulnerable there even if Sansa doesn't know what he wants, otherwise, in the game - ie his intended power goals.

2. Sansa was modifying Lysa's dress when LF walked in to talk with her. She was adding "wings" to it. The Eagle is the sigil of House Arryn, and I am suspecting the goal is to make people mentally associate her with authority in the Vale and the Arryns.

3. She mentioned while revealing her identity to the Lords Declarant that the Lannisters have spies everywhere. I think everyone involved knows she needs to still play the part of Alayne. Her hair and new, regal, Arrynesque costume is for the part of Alayne - which is different than in the books. In the show Alayne is LF's niece, not a bastard, and LF is in charge in the Vale as Robert's guardian. Alayne will be betrothed to Robert Arryn, so her dress was modified to invoke House Arryn.

4. The Vale is officially in mourning for Lysa. That is why she was wearing black. So was LF you might have noticed. It is not about looking evil, but looking like she was in mourning. A mourning dress with Eagle wings. Brilliant.

actually when i first saw the outfit the only thing i could think of is she's truly becoming a bird now and i saw it as a reference to her "little bird" name but with a clear twist: she's not a parrot but more of a predator bird due to the black coloring. i would be very interested in hearing hbo's comments about this new look for her since they have been very purposeful with what she wears.

[Chebyshov]

Based on the "inside the episode" commentary, it seems like they're viewing this episode as her "pawn to player" moment. It feels rushed to me, but mayhaps her TWOW has a lot of content or something, so they needed an early jump on it?

I love how badass she made sewing look.