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[Book Spoilers] EP408 Discussion

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Wowwow thats one hell of a nitpick! hue! I didnt even remember them. Bronze Yohn is gr9 doe.

I didn't really mean it as a nitpick. I am truly obsessed with finding out what the runes are and what they mean. When I heard Littlefinger say Royce's name, the first thing I thought of was his armor.

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And why the Missandei/Greyworm subplot? Is there a purpose to that?

Seems like they are laying the groundwork to keep the Meereen plot from being such a bore next season. Dany is becoming less and less likable so it makes sense to build up the supporting characters in her story so that viewers are still interested instead of spending all of next year asking why she's still in Meereen.

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With a few misstep here and there, this was rather interesting, and for me as Sansa fan, truly memorable episode. Long story short, Sansa and Oberyn ruled this, unfortunately in different directions.

The end was as gory as it should have been. I know some viewers don't like it, but the books leave no imagination to what has happened there, and the duel was nicely done. The Oberyn's mobility was something expected and there was a nice flow to it. Liked how he handled the spear, it was indeed nicely done. I loved the keeping "You raped her, you murdered her, you killed her children" and Pascal was absolutely phenomenal in making each of those times slightly more irritated. I am sincerely pleased at how show maintained the twist we have in books, and how our hopes were crushed in the very same cruel way it was done in the books. I assume the Unsullied rage has went over the top...

On the other hand we have "from Aurora to Maleficent" Sansa Stark. The end is there. This is all we have from Sansa in terms of book material, and I believe that we have concluded with her this year. How I feel about this is another story. This was truly from zero to hero transformation and although it felt a bit too fast, this was something that truly opens entire array of possibilities. Now, we can either conclude that Alayne Stone is the mask that never went deep in Sansa's psyche, or at least that is where the show is heading. TBH, there is a huge gap between Sansa's Alayne in TV and Sansa's Alayne in the books. This transformation was, in terms of her playing the game, phenomenal, but there is a feeling that TV Sansa is going into, if not "warrior princess" mode, than in some sort of "ice queen" which, again, can be problematic. I do find her acknowledgement of what LF wants rather interesting, and I assume that this indeed is TWOW spoilers in which Sansa realizes what LF wants from her. As for the vamp costume, we should never forget one thing - she sow it. She made that costume. She was the one who made her look that way. Not LF or anyone else. Sansa has turned herself into a player, and that can go in many directions... All and all, if we are to end her storyline this year, it is in many ways, interesting ending. Now, at least no one can argue that she is silly little girl :)

ETA: Let we not forget a bit crow-ish appeal of Sansa. Bloodraven, much?

In conclusion, interesting episode with Sansa and Oberyn taking the crown this week. Both Turner and Pascal were amazing and truly wonderful addition to the cast. I am going to miss Pascal... As I miss Oberyn :(

Yes Pascal was truly good casting

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Yeah, the "new" Sansa stuff could have went sour fast, if Sophie wasn't a good actress, and she is.


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I don't get the dislike for the Missandei and Grey Worm scene. All I personally ask for is that I have a reason to care about the characters on my screen. It can be cheesy or it can be complex. But give me something. This gave me something and I'm grateful for it.

Preach! Im ok with it because its adding some substance to Meereen and might as well get comfortable. We aint going anywhere for a while. While i see the complaints because im still Jon-Starved, im ok with what im getting cuz it could be worse.

I agree with this. Missandei and Grey Worm are Irri and Jiqui and the other Dothraki who doesn't bed cows nor boys. I miss the dothraki handmaids but they both are fine.

Yeah this. :)

That's because she was doing her usual, staring into the distance look. :laugh: ;)

Oh come on...i think for once, we can not berate Emilia Clarke. She was doing ok there. MUCH better than anticipated.

It boggles my mind how some people can complain about how the show lacks subtlety and subtext, but then can't understand the subtlety and subtext of the beetle scene.

You. I dont know you, but i like the cut of your jib.

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Alright I'm still in shock because of the last scene, I couldn't even watch it.... man they went all the way.



First, people need to stop complaining about Grey Worm and Missandei. They have great chemistry, they are very cute together, it makes even historical sense.... powerful, rich eunuchs have married in the past, so why not??? The two of them are replacing a lot of characters from the books, so they will have very important roles in the story after Daenerys flies away. Heck, they will probably survive all the way to Westeros and be important there.... it makes sense from the show's perspective.



As for Sansa... they rushed a little bit, but I liked a lot the trial, it was a great scene, Sophie Turner was amazing and for half the episode I liked a lot what they did with her story.... then I was shocked to find out that LF had no clue about that. What??? So, they make Sansa look great, but everything they added to her character, detracted from LF's. Do you understand how vulnerable he was in that scene with Lord Royce and the others??? LF is just too smart to be put in a situation like that.... if he didn't have a plan why did he kill Lysa??? That's disappointing... as for the last scenes.... I would bet that some unsullied will think she slept with LF, heck maybe she did in D&D's story (I really hope not)



To me, the scenese with Roose, Ramsay and Theon were perfection. They showed nothing new, but that doesn't mean they weren't great. Theon starting Reeking in front of that captain? so funny :).



When watching the episode I simply didn't understand what was the point of the roach story, after I saw the "Inside the Episode". They wanted to show that Tyrion simply doesn't understand why this is happening to him, he wants an answer that he can't get.... pretty simple stuff, a bit disappointing.



Emilia Clarke was good for a change, nothing great, but she did exactly what that banishment scene demanded from her.



What I hated was Arya's scene.... horrible. Why did they need to yell her name??? She could have had the same reaction even if the soldiers didn't know it was her. That's just stupid.... probably they did this, because they couldn't find another reason for the guards to let them pass. I bet Sandor and Arya reach the Eyrie and Sansa just left on her voyage .... Sandor dies and Arya goes to Gulltown. They created a lot of complications because they were too lazy to search for a better reasoninig.


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I don't get the dislike for the Missandei and Grey Worm scene. All I personally ask for is that I have a reason to care about the characters on my screen. It can be cheesy or it can be complex. But give me something. This gave me something and I'm grateful for it.

I think the Missandei/Grey Worm romance has been interesting and credibly acted. I'd rather watch it than Ramsay's girl hunts and sex scenes and some other things I can think of (such as Dany/Daario interaction).

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I didn't really mean it as a nitpick. I am truly obsessed with finding out what the runes are and what they mean. When I heard Littlefinger say Royce's name, the first thing I thought of was his armor.

Heh. Im razzin' ya. I didnt really remember he had runes on his armor. Maybe they say "Here is a fucken badass". Cuz srsly, Bronze Yohn is pretty great in the show omg im so pleased with im.

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Anyone else worried abou how they're going to get Arya out of the Vale now that Sandor spilled her name?


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Mladen, i really think Sansa's costume change is to simply signify that shes pretty much done with being The Dumbass Dove and now a raven watching everything. Watching everything. It happens in the Vale, Alayne is gonna know. I really actually dont think this "LF is my senpai and he noticed me" thing is gonna last. Shes got a will of her own. They are just speeding up the process in the show cuz its good TV.

Thank you... Everyone are speaking about Black Swan and Maleficent, but in universe this was Bloodraven to the core...

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Heh. Im razzin' ya. I didnt really remember he had runes on his armor. Maybe they say "Here is a fucken badass". Cuz srsly, Bronze Yohn is pretty great in the show omg im so pleased with im.

Ha! I just laughed out loud on that one! That's what I'm going to imagine every time Royce is brought up in the books!

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Anyone else worried abou how they're going to get Arya out of the Vale now that Sandor spilled her name?

Maybe they just won't believe him? Or maybe Bolton's will claim they have the real Arya in Winterfell?

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Man Sansa was great this episode, her speech was amazing. Littlefinger revealing he didn't know anything about it made it even better. I thought the Moat Cailan part was pretty funny, kinda similar to what happened to Theon in Winterfell. I felt sorry for Jorah when he got the boot out of Daenaerys' camp, that part was really well done. As for the duel....man....short but sweet -- and absolutely brutal! Oberyn's death in the show was on par with how i envisioned it in my head reading the books, bravo!



The worst part of this episode by far was the Mole's town girl belching songs at the beginning. Yeesh.


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Arya's laughter works several ways. On the one hand, she's laughing because she's finally within reach of some measure of safety and again, it gets snatched away. She's just a couple of days too late. On the other hand: her aunt just died and that really doesn't seem to phase her. And, yes, like she said, she doesn't actually know her aunt. But hey, it's still her aunt.

Not a scene to my liking.

There was some rumor that the Hound could be getting himself killed by the Knights of the Vale. In hindsight, that doesn't seem logical with Arya by his side. But then they could've just skipped the Bloody Gate alltogether. We've had enough close encounters and I don't think they're fooling anyone in to believing a Stark reunion is within the realm of possibilities.

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I have to be honest that I wasn't so sure when Pascal was cast. Only that he wasn't how I pictured Oberyn in my head.



But he was excellent. He got the languid charm and self-possession and witty bite to him down pat, when he is conversing at KL or with Elia or, er, at "play." Yet, when he was repeating himself and yelling about his sister and the children and the cool ferocity I pictured from the books while battling the Mountain, it was pretty close to how I viewed the character.



He was great.


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It boggles my mind how some people can complain about how the show lacks subtlety and subtext, but then can't understand the subtlety and subtext of the beetle scene.

If the showrunners showed us the Red Wedding in that way that we all know, Why we should believe that they would not change Oberyn's death or make it worse?

For me the beatle scene was very good, it makes you think about of lot of things about the series

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