Arya in TWOW Arya is in BIG trouble... (Mercy chapter spoilers)

[WildlingPrincess22]

I get the feeling the FM have their own agenda and no I don't think they're simple hired assassins.

lol I guess it came across that way when i said "do their dirty work" , I don't think they are simple murder for hire. I more so meant there may be some kind of agreement between the IB and faceless men.Many religious groups need funds to "flourish"

I agree with ONION wholeheartedly that their decisions are guided by their beliefs

They worship the many faced god aka god of death so by them carrying out certain assassinations they are within their acts of worship. The IB just happens to have the money to pay them, but that doesn't mean they will agree to every request by the IB, I guess i was pretty tired and did make them sound like a mafia style hitman group... :ph34r:

Still they are a "guild of assassins" and what they do has a price, while payment isn't always in the form of currency, I'm sure it's one form of payment.

Onion- you got me thinking before i even had coffee..i didn't think that was possible

[LadyAryaBaratheon]

Arya was learning. I think she will be in trouble, especially if they find out she kept needle.

I always get the feeling with the faceless men that they are like the group in Wanted. I think the old man has twisted the group into what he wants it to be, while others just follow him.

I think she will be in trouble for killing Raff, it's the same sense as her killing the Brother. She was not told to kill them, she wanted to kill them and did.

[The Sleeper]

Depends really.

The most important factor would be whether her apprenticeship was over either way, once she got a talking part in the play, or she needs to disappear because of the murder. The other part would be how much the FM learn about the incident and if they find out about his name, wheter they remember she whispered his name.

If they learn his name, she's screwed. It's strike two.

If they just learn that a Lannister guard went missing they will be suspicious. She can claim she approached him in character trying to gain information and that he tried to rape her.

If they don't hear about it then she doesn't have to tell them anything.

The question it comes down to is if she's confident and good enough to lie to them.

[Uldra I]

Depends really.

The most important factor would be whether her apprenticeship was over either way, once she got a talking part in the play, or she needs to disappear because of the murder. The other part would be how much the FM learn about the incident and if they find out about his name, wheter they remember she whispered his name.

If they learn his name, she's screwed. It's strike two.

If they just learn that a Lannister guard went missing they will be suspicious. She can claim she approached him in character trying to gain information and that he tried to rape her.

If they don't hear about it then she doesn't have to tell them anything.

The question it comes down to is if she's confident and good enough to lie to them.

While we can't be sure what the Kindly Man knows or doesn't about what happened or about the other secrets Arya keeps there is something in the book that is interesting. I am supposing the KM will chastise Arya again about Raff's execution, but still think he'll give her one more chance. In the books, the KM keeps offering, even encouraging Arya to leave... last time, before he gave her the first face she'd get from them, he told her it's still not to late to leave yet. That's a paraphrase, but I distinctly remember the word "yet". That implies that there will come a time that Arya is not going to be able to leave the FM without being hunted down. Wonder what secrets are greater than the ones they've already shown her about their methods? Anyway, it really adds to the suspense of "What is going to happen to Arya in TWoW?". And it makes me think she is going to have to leave or commit soon.

[Faceless Man Friday]

Agree with the first part, but have a question on the 2nd.

With all the secrets she now knows about the FM (like getting the new faces and being brought to the lower parts of tHoBW) can she just leave the FM without them trying to kill her? As mysterious as the FM are if they let people leave who knew the things Arya did their secrets would get out and I don't think they would care for that too much.

Arya is not just anyone. She is Arya of House Stark. We now Know Bran is a greensayer. There are Weirwood clues somehow linking the Children with the FM.What is Arya? While Bran was led to Bloodraven, I believe Arya was led to the Kindly Man. He even hints that she is someone very special in their first meeting when she tried to eat the worm she plucked from his face. Sometimes it is easy to forget that this story is a fantasy. I think magic is going to play a major role in the coming books. I also think that the Starks are magical and as there were five direwolf cubs each of the five stark children will play a magical part in the finale book. It seems to me that Arya as part of Team Stark is very important to the FM's end game. Whatever they are up to relies on Arya learning her craft from them and then leaving to play her part with the other Starks.

[Faceless Man Friday]

FM don't want Arya to keep needle. If she needed needle then they would give her a new sword. Needle has too many memories and feelings attached to it. Why would they want that? it would just keep her unstable and unpredictable for them to control her.

I just do not understand how people can say with certainty what the FM want when we know that to be a FM is to be a liar. To me the clues point to the fact that the FM know exactly who Arya is and they are fine with it.

I also do not understand why Arya as an apprentice could not be part of a FM mission. The FM had already sent her on a mission to kill the Insurance Man before sending her to be a mummer.

[Im where whores go]

FM don't want Arya to keep needle. If she needed needle then they would give her a new sword. Needle has too many memories and feelings attached to it. Why would they want that? it would just keep her unstable and unpredictable for them to control her.

I think it was ok she kept needle. When the waif was telling her story her father was only made to give up 2/3rds of his wealth not all of it and a life of service, Arya gave up everything else she had besides needle.

They're an esoteric religious order. Their actions would tend to be guided by this. I have no idea why folks think they're some mafia style organization, an assassins guild hired out to the highest bidder, clearly they're nothing of the sort. I think when the red comet appeared in the sky, that word came to them that Dany had her dragons and the Others were moving south they kicked into a higher gear.

I have the same feeling, all the other religions seem far worse to me with all the sacrifices and such. I also have noticed a lot of similarities in the FM stories and Avalokiteśvara/Guanyin/Kannon(and many other names and faces) the God/Goddess of Mercy in many eastern religions.

Arya is not just anyone. She is Arya of House Stark. We now Know Bran is a greensayer. There are Weirwood clues somehow linking the Children with the FM.What is Arya? While Bran was led to Bloodraven, I believe Arya was led to the Kindly Man. He even hints that she is someone very special in their first meeting when she tried to eat the worm she plucked from his face. Sometimes it is easy to forget that this story is a fantasy. I think magic is going to play a major role in the coming books. I also think that the Starks are magical and as there were five direwolf cubs each of the five stark children will play a magical part in the finale book. It seems to me that Arya as part of Team Stark is very important to the FM's end game. Whatever they are up to relies on Arya learning her craft from them and then leaving to play her part with the other Starks.

I think we are on the same page, I also think that she will become the instrument of the Many-Faced god that was hinted at in that 1st meeting with KM.

[Whitering]

I get the feeling the FM have their own agenda and no I don't think they're simple hired assassins.

I thought the prevailing theory was that the IB was basically their accounting side of the business.

[Uldra I]

I thought the prevailing theory was that the IB was basically their accounting side of the business.

Seems reasonable to me suspect they might be working for the same entity, but why would IBB be against magic returning?

[fellside]

This website states that many fans believe the Facless Men to have been behind the Doom.

If that's the case, my theory is that Arya's storyline will be somewhat similar to Batman Begins... I'll explain.

If the Faceless Men had something to do with the Doom, then it can be assumed that this isn't just a nice back story for fans to enjoy. It will be integral to the current plot. I believe that the Faceless Men want to bring about a similar result in Westeros and this explains what Jaqen H'ghar is doing as well as where Arya's storyline is going.

At some point they are going to involve Arya in this plot to take down Westeros (perhaps using the White Walkers). Arya is going to freak out because there is enough of Arya left in her to not want her home and remaining family to be destroyed. She will either escape them and fight against the plot or pretend to carry out their plot while actually working against it.

Arya = Bruce Wayne

Faceless Men = League of Shadows

Westeros = Gotham

Just a thought... Weird first post.

[Caerl Targaryen]

Seems reasonable to me suspect they might be working for the same entity, but why would IBB be against magic returning?

If the origins of the Faceless Men are as the Kindly Man tells Arya, they were originally slaves of the Valyrians. I can see them being against the return of the dragons. If the Iron Bank has connections to the Faceless Men, which I agree is reasonable, they would be opposed to dragons as well.

I would think that the return of magic would actually help them since they use magic to change their appearances. So I can't think of a reason why either organization be opposed to magic in general.

[Zacker]

it seemed obvious to me that the chapter started out with her thinking of herself as Mercy, until after Raff died she was all of a sudden Arya

But she's thinking of Mercy in the third person more than once. So i'd say no, not at all.

[Zacker]

About Arya being on a mission, I think it's very likely and that's how I read it.

Arya thinks in the beginning that Mercy is going to be raped and murdered, yet in the play she's only going to be raped. So what happens in the chapter with Raff is just a variation of the script already in place. She could just as well have taken out another lannister guard but luck was on her side. Or perhaps the faceless men.

For this reason I don't think it was a pointless kill, it's part of the plot and it involves the FM and the Iron Throne.

[Gerg Sknab]

About Arya being on a mission, I think it's very likely and that's how I read it.

Arya thinks in the beginning that Mercy is going to be raped and murdered, yet in the play she's only going to be raped. So what happens in the chapter with Raff is just a variation of the script already in place. She could just as well have taken out another lannister guard but luck was on her side. Or perhaps the faceless men.

For this reason I don't think it was a pointless kill, it's part of the plot and it involves the FM and the Iron Throne.

You're all parsing it too deeply...an eleven year old girl let her emotions get the best of her and killed someone she has been pining do for over a year...it is as simple as that...

The chapter is just a set up for the consequences of her actions in the next...

[Faceless Man Friday]

About Arya being on a mission, I think it's very likely and that's how I read it.

Arya thinks in the beginning that Mercy is going to be raped and murdered, yet in the play she's only going to be raped. So what happens in the chapter with Raff is just a variation of the script already in place. She could just as well have taken out another lannister guard but luck was on her side. Or perhaps the faceless men.

For this reason I don't think it was a pointless kill, it's part of the plot and it involves the FM and the Iron Throne.

:agree: I read it that way from the first reading and still read it that way after my 20th. I think her mission was to make it look like one of the Westerosi raped and murdered an innocent child.

[Faceless Man Friday]

If the origins of the Faceless Men are as the Kindly Man tells Arya, they were originally slaves of the Valyrians. I can see them being against the return of the dragons. If the Iron Bank has connections to the Faceless Men, which I agree is reasonable, they would be opposed to dragons as well.

I would think that the return of magic would actually help them since they use magic to change their appearances. So I can't think of a reason why either organization be opposed to magic in general.

I don't think the FM are against magic, per se. I think they are concerned about how magic is used. Like so many others in this book series, no one is all good or evil. I do not profess to know what the FM are up to but I do think it is connected with the COF and Bloodraven and is therefore full of magic. My best guess at this point is that the FM are either after something that will help them control the increase of magic in the world maybe more pointedly the dragons or prevent others from controlling the magic, ie dragons.

[Faceless Man Friday]

You're all parsing it too deeply...an eleven year old girl let her emotions get the best of her and killed someone she has been pining do for over a year...it is as simple as that...

The chapter is just a set up for the consequences of her actions in the next...

Well I hope someday we will be able to read what happens next, but from the information we currently have I disagree. Arya Stark is not just some 11 year old child. She is a Stark of Winterfell. She is a warg. Only the gods know what else she may be but I think that will be revealed in the next... :laugh:

[Gerg Sknab]

Well I hope someday we will be able to read what happens next, but from the information we currently have I disagree. Arya Stark is not just some 11 year old child. She is a Stark of Winterfell. She is a warg. Only the gods know what else she may be but I think that will be revealed in the next... :laugh:

That is right she reverts form No one (Mercy) to Arya ...that is not the teaching of the House of the Many Faced God of B&W....

[GHOSTSTARK]

imo she might know that the KM wont approve of her actions. so she leaves braavos and finds a way back to westeros to continue to take people off of her list.

[Daenor]

Also remember that she was disappointed when KM told her that it takes years to learn how to change your face.The sight of Lannister guards and especially Raff could well be the catalyst for her returning to Westeros.It makes far more sense than the whole mission theories,which are in my opinion just wishful thinking on behalf of fans.Also i won't be surprised if she ends up to Oldtown next and maybe get some extra "training" from JH himself.

Of course GRRM has always surprised us and she may still stay for some time with the FM.In that case theories that generally claim that the FM knew from the very beginning that Arya will always remain a Stark and had included her in some secret agenda of their own or other similar ides are also a possibility.