(Book spoilers) Why did Lena Headey do that?

[Hippocras]

No she isn't. She's not brainless - she remembers enough about RW to know she wants revenge, enough about her kids to go and get Robb's crown, enough of Brienne and her oath to think she was betrayed. She is capable of making a coherent thought 'she says you should call it Oathbreaker'. How is that a zombie, I fail to see. Robert Strong is one, LS Is still Catelyn only after all the compassion died in her. And it's especially evident in the show where it dies before she is killed, I really don't understand how these people can't see that considering that the way Fairley played her last 30 seconds on the show was just a perfect way to hint LS with the way her face looked and the sound she made.

She does not speak because of her cut throat, not because her brain doesn't allow her to form thoughts and words.

I said they were considering her from a TV perspective. She looks like a zombie. All she does is point and croak. Anything she "says" is through Harwin.

The interview pointed out that adapting that for TV to make it worthy of a talented actress, and make it more than just gratuitous gruesomeness will take some work.

That is a true and honest assessment. Stoneheart is a writing and directing challenge.

[sati]

I said they were considering her from a TV perspective. She looks like a zombie. All she does is point and croak. Anything she "says" is through Harwin.

The interview pointed out that adapting that for TV to make it worthy of a talented actress, and make it more than just gratuitous gruesomeness will take some work.

That is a true and honest assessment. Stoneheart is a writing and directing challenge.

So what they didn't have the time to figure it out for 4 seasons? They didn't even bring her up in conversation. They seriously should have done that if they consider her such a challenge.

[Hippocras]

So what they didn't have the time to figure it out for 4 seasons? They didn't even bring her up in conversation. They seriously should have done that if they consider her such a challenge.

Why? If they are not planning to show her in season 4, why discuss her in season 4?

[Cas Stark]

I said they were considering her from a TV perspective. She looks like a zombie. All she does is point and croak. Anything she "says" is through Harwin.

The interview pointed out that adapting that for TV to make it worthy of a talented actress, and make it more than just gratuitous gruesomeness will take some work.

That is a true and honest assessment. Stoneheart is a writing and directing challenge.

I didn't get that from Graves interview, I got that they didn't like the concept of her being a zombie.

Obviously, from the toned down COTF and BF, as well as Theon looking basically the same post torture....they are perfectly capable and comfortable with making cosmetic changes, such as her speaking, not looking gruesome, etc.

They didn't like Cat being resurrected, they thought she should have stayed dead, this is what I got from his interview, and that tells me, she is going to stay dead in the show.

[sati]

Why? If they are not planning to show her in season 4, why discuss her in season 4?

if it's the reason why she is not in s4 -because they don't know how to handle her - it seems it would be smart to maybe talk it over, figure it out, come up with something and - crazy idea, stick to the books and reveal her when Martin did in the same point of the story, not let director run around and say 'we don't know what to do so we are postponing it/not doing it at all but it's not our fault, it's everyone else's fault/also we do not understand the character so she must be pointless'.

[Hippocras]

I didn't get that from Graves interview, I got that they didn't like the concept of her being a zombie.

Obviously, from the toned down COTF and BF, as well as Theon looking basically the same post torture....they are perfectly capable and comfortable with making cosmetic changes, such as her speaking, not looking gruesome, etc.

They didn't like Cat being resurrected, they thought she should have stayed dead, this is what I got from his interview, and that tells me, she is going to stay dead in the show.

That is just your interpretation, and not at all mine.

What I understood is that they didn't like her entire purpose for resurrection being revenge. They are fine with her if there is more to her arc than that.

[Hippocras]

if it's the reason why she is not in s4 -because they don't know how to handle her - it seems it would be smart to maybe talk it over, figure it out, come up with something and - crazy idea, stick to the books and reveal her when Martin did in the same point of the story, not let director run around and say 'we don't know what to do so we are postponing it/not doing it at all but it's not our fault, it's everyone else's fault/also we do not understand the character so she must be pointless'.

I think the reason she was not included this season is different. I think it had more to do with not detracting from the introduction of Bloodraven and Bran's arc, and with pacing future seasons.

If they want to send known characters to Dorne (Jamie) that delays the Stoneheart arc, as I argued BEFORE the finale.

[sati]

That is just your interpretation, and not at all mine.

What I understood is that they didn't like her entire purpose for resurrection being revenge. They are fine with her if there is more to her arc than that.

But when it's brothel hopping Oberyn's entire purpose, everything is great for them.

[Hippocras]

But when it's brothel hopping Oberyn's entire purpose, everything is great for them.

That is not Oberyn's purpose though. Oberyn is part of telling relevant history behind the political dynamics. Oberyn is our first glimpse of Dorne. Oberyn saves Tyrion.

[sati]

That is not Oberyn's purpose though. Oberyn is part of telling relevant history behind the political dynamics. Oberyn is our first glimpse of Dorne. Oberyn saves Tyrion.

LS leads the Brotherhood. LS is basically the reason Brienne and Jaime met and came together again. LS is the most important character in Brienne's storyline considering how her oath is what keeps her going and is basically her whole story. LS avenges the Starks. LS is Gods' answer to RW.

[Mark Antony]

LS leads the Brotherhood. LS is basically the reason Brienne and Jaime met and came together again. LS is the most important character in Brienne's storyline considering how her oath is what keeps her going and is basically her whole story. LS avenges the Starks. LS is Gods' answer to RW.

LS is love and life.

[sati]

LS is love and life.

That's Stannis :lmao:

[Hippocras]

LS leads the Brotherhood. LS is basically the reason Brienne and Jaime met and came together again. LS is the most important character in Brienne's storyline considering how her oath is what keeps her going and is basically her whole story. LS avenges the Starks. LS is Gods' answer to RW.

And this is why I think she will be in season 5. But making sure she is perceived as a complex thing and not just a croaking undead zombie with nothing left to her but revenge is a serious writing and directing challenge, and that is precisely what Graves was saying.

[HairGrowsBack]

And this is why I think she will be in season 5. But making sure she is perceived as a complex thing and not just a croaking undead zombie with nothing left to her but revenge is a serious writing and directing challenge, and that is precisely what Graves was saying.

I know I sound like a purist but, um, follow the books ? They are lucky enough to have the work already done, and there is little to change with the LS chapters. All they need to do is:

1) Go easy on the make-up so she doesn't look too corny

2) Have Michelle Fairley being fantastic (melancholy attitude, cold looks she's so good at)

3) Keep a token à la Robb's crown to show she still thinks about her loved ones and that she remembers (the Wheel thingy she made for her children could work).

[Hippocras]

I know I sound like a purist but, um, follow the books ? They are lucky enough to have the work already done, and there is little to change with the LS chapters. All they need to do is:

1) Go easy on the make-up so she doesn't look too corny

2) Have Michelle Fairley being fantastic (melancholy attitude, cold looks she's so good at)

3) Keep a token à la Robb's crown to show she still thinks about her loved ones and that she remembers (the Wheel thingy she made for her children could work).

The books don't actually do it all that well.

One valuable change would be making it so that she talks for herself. The croaking with interpreter thing is...questionable. How do we even know that was what she said?

Another might be showing some kind of caring interaction, no lines even needed, with a BWB member, so that hanging Freys is not her sole activity.

The crown idea is good.

Or maybe she can be making more wreaths.

[Cas Stark]

The books don't actually do it all that well.

One valuable change would be making it so that she talks for herself. The croaking with interpreter thing is...questionable. How do we even know that was what she said?

Another might be showing some kind of caring interaction, no lines even needed, with a BWB member, so that hanging Freys is not her sole activity.

The crown idea is good.

Or maybe she can be making more wreaths.

She does talk in her encounter with Brienne.

[Tormund GiantsMANE]

are people arguing the value of the character to the entire series (super valuable) or the value of dropping her in the last episode of a season for 5 minutes before a 9 month break? I haven't read any interview from the producers or writers that explicitly says that LS is cut or wasn't planned for the series. I think Graves explicitly says that she wasn't planned for this season, but his reasoning all but implies potential future appearances. The show runners also may have had difficulty finding a way to tie her into the established storyline. Given that just about every scene involved characters interacting with/crossing paths with other characters, who was near LS at the time? How random would a cutaway to the BWB in some random forest be?We've seen how much of that crew this year? I suppose they could have done more to set it up, but they have been cutting stuff short all season (battle at the wall). I think we can be pretty sure that Briennes storyline is being fastracked a bit, so I'd look forward to LS early next yr (first 5 eps) or at least hinted towards before a "second half" reveal. I'd be thoroughly disappointed if they cut her, but I really don't see how or why they'd do that.

[Hippocras]

are people arguing the value of the character to the entire series (super valuable) or the value of dropping her in the last episode of a season for 5 minutes before a 9 month break? I haven't read any interview from the producers or writers that explicitly says that LS is cut or wasn't planned for the series. I think Graves explicitly says that she wasn't planned for this season, but his reasoning all but implies potential future appearances. The show runners also may have had difficulty finding a way to tie her into the established storyline. Given that just about every scene involved characters interacting with/crossing paths with other characters, who was near LS at the time? How random would a cutaway to the BWB in some random forest be?We've seen how much of that crew this year? I suppose they could have done more to set it up, but they have been cutting stuff short all season (battle at the wall). I think we can be pretty sure that Briennes storyline is being fastracked a bit, so I'd look forward to LS early next yr (first 5 eps) or at least hinted towards before a "second half" reveal. I'd be thoroughly disappointed if they cut her, but I really don't see how or why they'd do that.

I agree.

People on this thread are mostly angry and panicked because they think she was cut completely. But there is in fact no reason to believe that.

[needle54]

guys don't you know?

Alliser Thorne = no.1 GoT troll

take a deep breath.

[Envie]

I'm not sure why people are assuming she's cut from the story entirely on the show because they chose not to reveal her in the season finale. It could have been a great cliff-hanger reveal, I agree - but that doesn't mean her arrival next season is now doomed or that it will be less intense.

Personally I've gotten to the point with the show (carefully reminding myself to separate it from the books every episode) that I no longer hang my hopes on any one character or scene to avoid too much disappointment. Everyone has a different perspective of the story they read from the books. No two of us would ever agree on every interpretation or character portrayal or even if a certain character was that important to the story overall other than the main POV characters of course.

I've read arguments for and against including LSH in the show. Without knowing how the story ends, how can we say her inclusion in the story is vital or not?

I was never a huge fan of the un-cat / un-gregor stuff in the books even though I love the concept of most of the 'magical' themes. That was just one of them I really didn't get.