Legalization of Marijuana Thread (Medicinal Possibilities, Business, Etc.)

[Robin Of House Hill]

You look so cute!

(Sorry, back to the regularly scheduled conversation...)

LOL!

[Athias]

I see the need to use chemical compounds or alcohol as a facilitator pointing to a flaw in the person. And although I have, at most, one or two drinks a month, I would be happy to give them up.

"happy to give them up"? So, you're leaving it to your own judgement whether to consume alcohol or narcotics? Why then do you feel their consumption should be legally impermissible?

[Ramsay Gimp]

My experience with it and the problem I have with it, is that it temporarily makes the world seem better than it really is.That's a path I don't want to go down. I can think of ways to relax and unwind that don't involve using substances that alter my perception of reality.

Fine, I'll change my stance to permitting the growth and sale,solely for a well controlled medical use.

As for the perception of reality issue, see above. I'm not relying on anything anyone told me. I'm relying on what I experienced a long time ago.

"Based on my personal anecdotal experience, I, Robin, want to limit the freedom of millions of individuals to partake in an activity that does me no harm"

How is this different than the following:

"I once met a gay couple who were bad parents, therefore gay adoption should be outlawed"

To say that your personal preferences should be the rubric for other people's liberty is self-centered at best, evil at worst

[Galactus]

"Based on my personal anecdotal experience, I, Robin, want to limit the freedom of millions of individuals to partake in an activity that does me no harm"

That's a bit of a false statement. Even the most dyed in the wool pothead agrees that marijuana does have *some* negative health effects, no? And if so, the healthcare costs alone would make grounds for wanting it to stop.

There are other issues with this line of argumentation, of course, but the idea that "what other people do doesen't impact me" is a bit silly: It does, especially where health is concerned.

[Xray the Enforcer]

Based on earlier comments, I think Galactus is equating all pot use with smoking, as opposed to edibles, tincture, or vaporization. As legalization continues, I am quite sure you will be alternative ingestion methods start to outpace smoking.

[Ramsay Gimp]

That's a bit of a false statement. Even the most dyed in the wool pothead agrees that marijuana does have *some* negative health effects, no? And if so, the healthcare costs alone would make grounds for wanting it to stop.

There are other issues with this line of argumentation, of course, but the idea that "what other people do doesen't impact me" is a bit silly: It does, especially where health is concerned.

Well now we are getting into issues of how healthcare is paid for. When it's (partly) socialized, then everything becomes everyone's problem - even personal habits. Which is one of my big problems with public health care - it provides an excuse for cracking down on people's vices due to their "cost". Make people fully responsible for their own healthcare cost and that problem goes away.

But even in our current system, I think it's incredibly cruel to hound and imprison citizens for a recreational activity that only affects other people in such a stretched, indirect way

What are you referring to with health care costs? I don't really know what the estimates say. But first, plenty of people are using marijuana already. Would legalization increase that amount? Possibly but most likely not by too much. Remember that far fewer Dutch use it than Americans. And if it reduces alcohol consumption by any significant amount, that would more than make up for whatever costs marijuana along could create.

Also, this. It's in no way guaranteed or even likely that marijuana legalization would increase public health costs

[AndrewJ]

Even the most dyed in the wool pothead agrees that marijuana does have *some* negative health effects, no? And if so, the healthcare costs alone would make grounds for wanting it to stop.

So do cheese-burgers. Motor vehicles cause pollution in the air.

Possible negative health consequences can't be used to automatically justify the banning of something.

(I don't smoke marijuana or take other drugs besides alcohol. Just saying the argument isn't too convincing to me)

[Ramsay Gimp]

So do cheese-burgers. Motor vehicles cause pollution in the air.

Possible negative health consequences can't be used to automatically justify the banning of something.

(I don't smoke marijuana or take other drugs besides alcohol. Just saying the argument isn't too convincing to me)

"We have had reports of Big Gulp sightings in this area. I want a full sweep of all homes and vehicles"

[Galactus]

What are you referring to with health care costs? I don't really know what the estimates say. But first, plenty of people are using marijuana already. Would legalization increase that amount? Possibly but most likely not by too much. Remember that far fewer Dutch use it than Americans. And if it reduces alcohol consumption by any significant amount, that would more than make up for whatever costs marijuana along could create.

That's actually a separate issue. I'm not really taking a position whether or not criminalizing marijuana is the right decision or not, I'm just saying that "It doesen't affect you" isn't really a good counterargument.

Personally I don't really care eihter way and I'd leave it up to those who do to decide the issue, I just don't like sloppy arguments or twisting the truth.

Would pot consumption rduce alcohol consumption? I haven't really seen any data either way, but it seems unlikely.

Again, there are good arguments for legalization: The costs of enforcement, the liberal argument, the double standard, etc. "It doesen't affect you" really isn't.

[Galactus]

So do cheese-burgers. Motor vehicles cause pollution in the air.

Possible negative health consequences can't be used to automatically justify the banning of something.

(I don't smoke marijuana or take other drugs besides alcohol. Just saying the argument isn't too convincing to me)

And therefore there are regulations on pollution, sanitary standards for foood processing, etc.

Whether or not banning is the right ay to deal with the problem is a separate issue. I'm just pointing out that there is a problem. Should it be dealt with by banning, regulation, or just ignoring and let live with it? That I leave up to you, but if so it need to be a conscious decision on the subject.

[awesome possum]

This is a perfect reason for why marijuana needs to be legalized or at least decriminalized

A man who had partied at Westcott’s home was plotting to rob him. An itinerant motorcycle mechanic, Westcott didn’t have much — two televisions and a handgun that once belonged to his brother were perhaps the most valuable possessions in his 600-square-foot house in Seminole Heights — but he was terrified by his would-be intruder’s threats to kill him.

Police tracked down the suspect and warned him to stay away. Westcott, those close to him said, was left with a word of advice from the investigating officers: If anyone breaks into this house, grab your gun and shoot to kill.

On the night of May 27, as armed men streamed through his front door, Westcott grabbed his gun. But the 29-year-old didn’t have a chance to shoot before he died in a volley of gunfire. And those who killed him weren’t robbers.

They were police officers from the same agency he had enlisted to protect his home.

In the span of a few months, Westcott had become the target of an intensive drug investigation. On that Tuesday in May — a night when he typically baby­sat his sister’s children at his house, according to his mother — he was fatally shot by a Tampa Police Department SWAT team executing a search warrant for marijuana.

Who in the hell believes that a SWAT team deployment is needed for a search warrant for marijuana? Does anyone really believe it's a good idea for a team of armed men to be able to rush into a house, guns drawn and ready to fire, because that person maybe, possibly has weed?

Ultimately, this violent, volatile raid came after the informant claimed to have bought $200 worth of pot. That’s why Westcott is dead: $200 worth of pot. Friends and neighbors say Westcott and his boyfriend were recreational pot smokers, but hardly major dealers. They were often broke. Their utilities were often disconnected. They just occasionally sold a joint or two to friends. The police found about $2.00 worth of pot the house. There’s no misplaced decimal there. Two dollars.

Fucking disgusting.

[Ramsay Gimp]

This is a perfect reason for why marijuana needs to be legalized or at least decriminalized

Who in the hell believes that a SWAT team deployment is needed for a search warrant for marijuana? Does anyone really believe it's a good idea for a team of armed men to be able to rush into a house, guns drawn and ready to fire, because that person maybe, possibly has weed?

Fucking disgusting.

Exactly. Though I would say such raids are equally unjustified for all drugs

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

Would pot consumption rduce alcohol consumption? I haven't really seen any data either way, but it seems unlikely.

http://www.vox.com/2014/6/6/5783746/the-public-health-case-for-legalizing-pot-it-could-replace-alcohol

It wouldn't have to displace alcohol consumption much. Just a fraction of percentage decreased alcohol consumption in the US would massively improve public health.

[Shryke]

Based on earlier comments, I think Galactus is equating all pot use with smoking, as opposed to edibles, tincture, or vaporization. As legalization continues, I am quite sure you will be alternative ingestion methods start to outpace smoking.

I'm not sure the ingestion method matters. Pot does have health effects. Especially, like basically all drugs, on teenagers because their brains are still developing. It's no different from any other drug in that respect.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Do I care if people smoke loud? No, not really. But I have to imagine some people in the hood will be more obnoxious than ever if they know selling weed is legal.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Do I care if people smoke loud? No, not really. But I have to imagine some people in the hood will be more obnoxious than ever if they know selling weed is legal.

[awesome possum]

I'm not sure the ingestion method matters. Pot does have health effects. Especially, like basically all drugs, on teenagers because their brains are still developing. It's no different from any other drug in that respect.

It's no different from any other item that one can intake into one's own body. Like water. It has health effects. Drink too much or not enough and you'll get sick, you could die. Ingest too much marijuana and you'll fall asleep, maybe eat too much and give yourself a bellyache.

Now, yes, it can affect developing brains of teenagers... but so can Ritalin and Adderall. Hell, Adderall is an amphetamine and to get it prescribed all you need to do is basically fill out a checklist. In 2010 there were more than 30,000 emergency room visits because of Adderall.

Do I care if people smoke loud? No, not really. But I have to imagine some people in the hood will be more obnoxious than ever if they know selling weed is legal.

I don't think people standing on a street corner selling weed will ever be legal like you're insinuating.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

It's no different from any other item that one can intake into one's own body. Like water. It has health effects. Drink too much or not enough and you'll get sick, you could die. Ingest too much marijuana and you'll fall asleep, maybe eat too much and give yourself a bellyache.

Now, yes, it can affect developing brains of teenagers... but so can Ritalin and Adderall. Hell, Adderall is an amphetamine and to get it prescribed all you need to do is basically fill out a checklist. In 2010 there were more than 30,000 emergency room visits because of Adderall.

I don't think people standing on a street corner selling weed will ever be legal like you're insinuating.

You're right. But it will be the misconception.

[aceluby]

You're right. But it will be the misconception.

Just point to all the booze dealers 'in the hood'.

Oh wait... those are liquor stores.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Just point to all the booze dealers 'in the hood'.

Oh wait... those are liquor stores.

Or I can just point to the moonshine/alcohol dealers who deal from the basements that everyone in the local community knows and thinks nothing of. Weed becoming legal to sell is fine, but that bottom line is all some people are going to consider when they weigh it against needing to feed their son/daughter. They're just not gonna give a damn about the specifics.