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More homosexuality in the series

TheWitch

By TheWitch,
in General (ASoIaF)

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TheWitch Squire

TheWitch

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hahahahaa... the worst part is Margaery practically explaining him that you need a man and a woman to have a baby like Renly is some sort of idiot :lol:

What was that awful line? " you need to put a son in my belly"? Thank you got but we understand the way inheritance works by now

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gregg22 Squire

gregg22

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I'm not telling him to do it. It's his fucking story, I'm merely saying having a rounded lesbian character would be NICE. I'm for it because it would add realism to the world and is a good study of humanity. Westeros Is medieval I don't want it to be a parallel to real world problems. I never suggested that.

I know, thats why i said I had no issue with your original post.

I was referring to Bonifer Tasty who suggested that GRRM "should be encouraged" to "do better". As if we were going to start some campaign to pressure him into adding more homosexuality.

I like hearing what different opinions, yours included. I doubt this was the type of discussion you intended.

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Bonifer Tasty Squire

Bonifer Tasty

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I was referring to Bonifer Tasty who suggested that GRRM "should be encouraged" to "do better". As if we were going to start some campaign to pressure him into adding more homosexuality.

Well, I suppose I shouldn't have phrased it in a way to suggest a campaign, I don't intend even to write him a direct email about it!

But he's not perfect, and I can find a criticism here or there and voice it. I agree that he should have a realistic lesbian character, and there's no reason he couldn't do it. Why shouldn't he be encouraged to do it (if, of course, it would be true to his vision of things).

But hell, he just added a character as a charitable fund-raiser/publicity stunt for $20,000 - for someone who wants to be in the book to be killed off... his vision of things is pretty flexible!

It's not too much to ask for a lesbian character.

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gregg22 Squire

gregg22

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Well, I suppose I shouldn't have phrased it in a way to suggest a campaign, I don't intend even to write him a direct email about it!

But he's not perfect, and I can find a criticism here or there and voice it. I agree that he should have a realistic lesbian character, and there's no reason he couldn't do it. Why shouldn't he be encouraged to do it (if, of course, it would be true to his vision of things).

But hell, he just added a character as a charitable fund-raiser/publicity stunt for $20,000 - for someone who wants to be in the book to be killed off... his vision of things is pretty flexible!

It's not too much to ask for a lesbian character.

On that level i think we can agree.

Careful what you wish for though, we might get a a short story spin-off about a flamboyant, extremely well dressed White Walker named Brian, who doesnt want to ride those "icky" dead horses, and wants to go south of the Wall to become a wedding planner.

George is getting in on those Funny or Die skits now!

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nara Council Member

nara

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Ok, how many really homosexual characters we have in the books?

Renly: Handsome funny and charismatic leader.

Loras: Strong capable warrior with a great reputation.

Oberyn: Dangerous smart man, loving father, very respected and loved in Dorne.

Connington: Smart loyal warrior.

Nymeria Sand (maybe?): Lethal smart woman.

And that's only those confirmed.

I think ASOIAF definitely have good represented gay characters than many other books who have either none or are walking clichés.

I'm too lazy today to read the whole thread, so apologies if these have been mentioned: Lyn Corbray is gay and Taena Merrywether's husband (Orton, I think) is implied to be gay. One is warrior and the other is a stupid middle-aged man.

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Bonifer Tasty Squire

Bonifer Tasty

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Careful what you wish for though, we might get a a short story spin-off about a flamboyant, extremely well dressed White Walker named Brian, who doesnt want to ride those "icky" dead horses, and wants to go south of the Wall to become a wedding planner.

George is getting in on those Funny or Die skits now!

HA! You're right! (That was pretty funny, really!)

(...and nice one there with the wedding planner)

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JonisHenryTudor Council Member

JonisHenryTudor

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Talking about all the different people that read these books brings me to just reflect on this; I love meeting people from all over on boards like this. In some ways, it's the closest I'll probably ever come to travelling the whole wide world. Everything winds up getting speculated on, that's the thing, and as usual, I step in it when people try to boss other people around. It is one of my pet peeves, LOL, and gets me into no end of trouble. I'm not meaning you, with the bossing around, but sometimes many here mask that proclivatity in these type of debates. With that, I think I'm outta this thread before I get myself in trouble.

No I certainly get your sentiments. My only reason for commenting on this thread was because I can see the novel being pushed to the corner while political/religious/social/cultural agendas fuel a nasty debate. We have enough of that in the real world, this forum is a place to debate useless and insignificant material. I do have to admit that I get particularly feisty when history is brought up....but that is what I do.

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Dornish Vinegar Council Member

Dornish Vinegar

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DAMN am I disappointed I was out of town for this discussion.





I saw an old joking thread about the possible undertones of attraction that Jon gives towards Satin, and thought I'd make a serious one. As a gay man it means a lot to me to see gay characters and I loved Renly and Loras being a thing. Although it's a little presumptuous, if Jon is alive I'd love him and Satin to have a sexual/romantic encounter. I'd really like to see a lesbian character, not just a woman having an experimental moment. Which is fine, and I praise Martin for it, but a lesbian character confident in her sexuality would be cool. So what you all think. Should we have more gay. And even if it's a little silly, Jon and Satin :)




I could not agree with you more, TheWitch. I am hope hope HOPING Nymeria turns out to identify as lesbian. I do praise him for including female/female experimentation, but as other posters have brought up (s/o to AryaNymeriaVisenya and HairGrowsBack, if I can paraphrase what they said) it was hard to detach those instances from the male gaze. But yeah, more representation is always good, and I hope we see it :)






Of course, the point of increasing the number would be FOR the readers - "plenty of gay characters that the reader just doesn't know about" (while possible) is not in effect any different than there not being any.



The point, rather, is that heteronormativity creates an impression that does not reflect reality. Most of the commenters here are wanting to see more specifically queer characters because they want to resist a heteronormative reading. The introduction of JonCon (who Martin has in interviews stated is gay) does go a long way toward accomplishing a non heteronormative narrative, but I still think he should be encouraged to do better.



I see no reason why he wouldn't. Martin is pretty engaged with social complexity, and the clever tricks he played back in 1996 to coyly conceal his characters' homosexuality (so that people who read the books sometimes don't ever realize that Renly and Loras were lovers!) are no longer necessary.



I think he has kept pace with the times, and am confident he will continue to do so. A book coming out in 2015 (can we pray for it!?) should probably make JonCon's thoughts even more clear, and should remedy the lack of a realistic Lesbian character. In a cast of 2500, these things are not too much to ask, nor too difficult to achieve.




:agree: Much more diplomatic than I could have been. :bowdown: :bowdown:





It's called queer theory.




Hello friend!





Really though a lot of this thread is gross. Sorry your topic got so sidetracked, OP. And solidarity.


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Waylin Stark Council Member

Waylin Stark

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I doubt we'll be seeing any homosexuality, simply because none of the current POVs are gay (Except JonCon, but he's busy and dying, so I doubt he'll waste time in a brothel or have a fling with anyone).

There may be tons of JonxSatin fans, but I doubt Jon is a closeted homosexual. Even if he is, I doubt we'll see anything come of it.
(Fun fact: I told some of my show watcher friends that Jon's gay, citing his decision to leave Ygritte and rejoin his brothers, and they all fell for it :lol: )

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Juliet Burke Freerider

Juliet Burke

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I doubt we'll be seeing any homosexuality, simply because none of the current POVs are gay (Except JonCon, but he's busy and dying, so I doubt he'll waste time in a brothel or have a fling with anyone).

There may be tons of JonxSatin fans, but I doubt Jon is a closeted homosexual. Even if he is, I doubt we'll see anything come of it.

(Fun fact: I told some of my show watcher friends that Jon's gay, citing his decision to leave Ygritte and rejoin his brothers, and they all fell for it :lol: )

Good evidence))
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