The Fandom's meaning of "Foreshadowing"

[TheMysteriousOne]

Some of the posters who post all this 'foreshadowing' seem like people who just walked out of high school AP English and think that foreshadowing applies to essentially every single thing a character does or thinks.

[Arya Stark Rules]

Some of the posters who post all this 'foreshadowing' seem like people who just walked out of high school AP English and think that foreshadowing applies to essentially every single thing a character does or thinks.

:bowdown:

[JonCon's Red Beard]

"To find foreshadowing you must first find the event to which the foreshadowing points".

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Foreshadow: verb, intransitive; frequently misconstrued to mean "pointing to something I want to happen." From the Latin forus shadovvus (roughly: "lookie I found a clue!")

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I see problems with a lot of supposed foreshadowing, especially when outside sources are used (I've seen people try to argue that XYZ will end up going one way in the story because Tolkien/Jordan/whoever did it, and that's nuts).

As Bumps said, foreshadowing is really only concretely recognized when the foreshadowed event actually happens. It's only when, say, Jon kills Slynt that we can go back and see that Sansa's thought about a hero cutting off his head was foreshadowing.

The real trick is to use foreshadowing that's already proved to be accurate as a means of predicting what will happen before it happens. Meaning, if we've seen that GRRM has used something, like sigils or food/drink, to convey a certain meaning, and that's been borne out in the series up to this point, we can keep an eye out for future mentions. So, if someone talks about seeing a wolf or a fish or whatever in a vision, we know based on precedent to pay attention. Or if there's Arbor gold in a scene, we should know to keep an eye out for lies and deceit.

If you keep to those pretty standard parameters that have already shown themselves to be "prophetic," you can start to see patterns in the writing that may actual help you predict stuff. But anticipating history to repeat itself completely (I think events are cyclical, but they come back around in different ways; nothing happens the same way twice), relying too heavily on your own bias or relying at all on outside source material is a recipe for getting it wrong, I think.

[The King in Black]

Foreshadowing can only be realised when a said event occurs and then you realise that some sort of a subtle clue had already been implanted about said event right under your nose. Everything until then, no matter how strong the said proof, is pure speculation until proven correct

[Moondancer]

Other examples of foreshadowing are often a case of: I think this will happen in the future books, so I'm going to take all of these quotes out of context and twist them to fit my ideas.

FIND ALL THE LINES! FORESHADOW EVERY DAY!

[cxvb]

It's only when, say, Jon kills Slynt that we can go back and see that Sansa's thought about a hero cutting off his head was foreshadowing.

No, we don't. For it to be foreshadowing we would have to know that GRRM placed that clue on purpose. We don't know that here, and wishing for a hero is totally in line with Sansa's character, so the parsimonious explanation is that it's just a coincidence.

In addition, the declaration as foreshadowing omits any explanation why Jon correpsonds to the hero, when by most analyses he's anything but a straight up hero archetype.

Im nitpicking on this because it's IMHO the second major misue of the term on the forums, the first being "foreshadowing" for events in future books. This second is labelling any sort of connection which can be argued for in retrospect a foreshadowing, when it's just as likely simple coincidence or the author returning to themes and topics and tropes.

[Talking Hodor]

If Patchface, a maegi, or someone using a weirwood tree stump for a pillow didn't say it or dream it, it's probably not foreshadowing. Can't we just use previous books' foreshadowing of things that occured later on as a predictor of how GRRM typically foreshadows stuff?

Prophecies? Most definitely foreshadowing.

Dead mythical beasts that happen to be major house sigils, just lying in the forest? Definitely foreshadowing.

[HexMachina]

If Patchface, a maegi, or someone using a weirwood tree stump for a pillow didn't say it or dream it, it's probably not foreshadowing. Can't we just use previous books' foreshadowing of things that occured later on as a predictor of how GRRM typically foreshadows stuff?

Prophecies? Most definitely foreshadowing.

Dead mythical beasts that happen to be major house sigils, just lying in the forest? Definitely foreshadowing.

You forgot Old Nan. Anything that woman says is canon ;) (joking)

[Talking Hodor]

There could also be cases of inadvertent foreshadowing because GRRM knows where he's going and accidentally reveals that in his writing. Sansa wishing for Janos Slynt to be beheaded looks like this. She could have fantasized about him getting thrown from a battlement, torn in half by a giant, poisoned, etc., but she fantasizes about him being beheaded because GRRM knows that is what will happen.

[Talking Hodor]

You forgot Old Nan. Anything that woman says is canon ;) (joking)

Naturally. Old Nan's the most important character in the entire book if you hope to unravel where the series is heading.

[Mladen]

The real trick is to use foreshadowing that's already proved to be accurate as a means of predicting what will happen before it happens.

I agree with entire post, and I suppose that bumps is indeed right saying that we can speak only of foreshadowing, when the actual foreshadowing happens. But, this is the board where people are discussing the possibilities of how future events will resolve and thus many theories are based on these clues. Like you said, we notice some patterns and try to see whether that has some meaning for the future plot. I suppose there is no harm in someone claiming "I believe that this might foreshadow..." A lot of theories are built this way, and as I say, my main problem is that other elements are usually ignored. I think that as you say, if we have someone who is using foreshadowing clues in line with the patterns you spoke about, there is no problem, just people theorizing about it. Pushing these theories as canon, well, that is another problem...

As for external sources, I think people need to be even more careful... I am one of those who uses a lot of external sources, but mostly for analyses' purposes, not for predicting future evens. Although, I do have that Stannis/Agamemnon parallel I like to annoy people with :)

[LordStoneheart]

Every other sentence is foreshadowing. Every other one. Go ahead. Try it. Your mind will be Gregor'd.

[cxvb]

She could have fantasized about him getting thrown from a battlement, torn in half by a giant, poisoned, etc., but she fantasizes about him being beheaded because GRRM knows that is what will happen.

AGOT "Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head."

ACOK "When she heard that the imp had sent Lord Slynt to the Wall, she had forgotten herself and said, I hope the Others get him.

She wishes the same thing on Slynt he did to her father, it isn't more complicated than that. The very sentence highlights the parallel.

In ACOK she wishes another ill on him, which I suppose the forshadowing-fans would call GRMM covering his bases. Except, foreshadowing is a technique employed by the author, and it works by hinting at _the_ future event, not a whole bunch of pointers in all possible directions.

And I seriously doubt GRRM knew Slynt's fate in 2011 ADWD in 1991 when he wrote AGOT. He himself describes his approach to plot as gardening and has variously stated that he does not know the fate of minor characters until he sits down to write the chapters.

[RoamingRonin]

CXVB: It's like you're saying there's no such thing as foreshadowing.

[Civility Reigns]

"Foreshadowing is like a half-trained mule. It looks as though it might be useful, but the moment you trust in it, it kicks you in the head."

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Well, I honestly think foreshadowing is usually combined with bias. That ridiculous bit about Dany's ants, the endless rant about King Robert referencing snow, that's not foreshadowing to me. That's just ridiculous bias. Truth is, people can see foreshadow where they choose and want to see. I can take Sansa's rebuilding of Winterfell as foreshadow that Sansa will literally rebuild Winterfell as Queen, for my own personal bias towards her character, and whilst some foreshadow pays off (Sansa and Jon regarding Slynt), I think It should be taken lightly and threaded carefully. I do agree with Bumps that foreshadow can only really be traced after the event happens. But most people usually take what they want to take as foreshadow.

[Moondancer]

No, we don't. For it to be foreshadowing we would have to know that GRRM placed that clue on purpose. We don't know that here, and wishing for a hero is totally in line with Sansa's character, so the parsimonious explanation is that it's just a coincidence.

And most likely he didn't - Janos Slynt died a few times before GRRM decided to descend on him in the manner we read it in the book, as evident by the chapters released prior to the publication.

[Annara Snow]

There could also be cases of inadvertent foreshadowing because GRRM knows where he's going and accidentally reveals that in his writing. Sansa wishing for Janos Slynt to be beheaded looks like this. She could have fantasized about him getting thrown from a battlement, torn in half by a giant, poisoned, etc., but she fantasizes about him being beheaded because GRRM knows that is what will happen.

Except he didn't. Slynt was supposed to get hanged and that's what happened in the first version of the ADWD chapter, but when GRRM read it at a con, fans thought it would be more fitting if he were beheaded, and he agreed.