Ser Creighton Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 If Elia was okay with everything, I think it was because Rhaegar explained everything. We know so little about Elia of Drone. It's...odd. We have Ned and others thoughts about Lyanna; Ned and others thoughts about Rhaegar. But with Elia there is so little there. Rhaegar and Elia were apparently "fond" of one another but what does that actually mean? And how much did she buy into Rhaegar's notions of prophecy? Was she actually ambitious?Well I figure Elia must have been a really kind, gentle and sweet lady, with a wonderful heart. That's why Martin butchered the crap out of her. On the Other hand the mountain appears to have become an immortal super giant and got to kill her brother too. Who was a second son. Just watched a repeat of one of the episodes and Tyrion and Oberyn are like hey we are both second sons to each other. It made the show it must have some meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan the Small Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 My far fetched theory on the topic is that Lyanna is lying wounded on the bed of blood having fought against her lovers enemies and Roberts Army. Jon was born earlier. Lyanna donned her Knight of the Laughing Tree armor and fought alongside the King's Guard to defend the Tower of Joy. She kills a couple of attackers and suddenly confronts Ned and hesitates. She is mortally wounded by one of Neds Companions and retreats into the citadel. Ned finds her bleeding to death in her Room near Jon's crib. "Promise Me Ned".......... That is a very different theory. I like it but I don't know if there were any other attackers at ToJ. I believe Ned rides up with his companions and sees only the three KG and they have words before the fight ensues. Also the thought of them leaving a baby unattended in the tower while they go outside is far fetched as well. Not disproving your thought at all, but like all the theories it has flaws, making it possible and not possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Dried blood is DRY, it does not rot. People have been drying raw meat for thousands of years, it does not ROT if it is dry. Regardless of volume, if it is dry it is not rotting, and will not smell of decay. You ever had Jerkey? Also, I assume the the climate was dry @ ToJ. People have been drying raw meat in their beds for thousands of years. It does not rot if it is dry. Regardless of volume. If it is dry it is not rotting, and will not smell of decay. Did you ever make jerkey in your bed? To think I wasted all that money on a dehydrator... when all I had to do was throw the meat on a pillow and assume the climate is dry. But back on topic... If dry blood does not smell as you have so confusingly stated. The blood Ned smelled was not dry....Thank you for answering your own question.---In a very strange and round about fashion. Your question was: "how do we know the blood was fresh" ---I cited that Ned smelled it. You were kind enough to confirm that dried blood does not smell. --Thank You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Well I figure Elia must have been a really kind, gentle and sweet lady, with a wonderful heart. That's why Martin butchered the crap out of her. I shouldn't laugh at that...but I did That is a very different theory. I like it but I don't know if there were any other attackers at ToJ. I believe Ned rides up with his companions and sees only the three KG and they have words before the fight ensues. Also the thought of them leaving a baby unattended in the tower while they go outside is far fetched as well. Not disproving your thought at all, but like all the theories it has flaws, making it possible and not possible Just a note: but I don't think the tower was ever without servants or a midwife since Lyanna and Rhaegar moved in. Pretty sure they had some people around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan the Small Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 People have been drying raw meat in their beds for thousands of years. It does not rot if it is dry. Regardless of volume. If it is dry it is not rotting, and will not smell of decay. Did you ever make jerkey in your bed? To think I wasted all that money on a dehydrator... when all I had to do was throw the meat on a pillow and assume the climate is dry. But back on topic... If dry blood does not smell as you have so confusingly stated. The blood Ned smelled was not dry....Thank you for answering your own question.---In a very strange and round about fashion. Your question was: "how do we know the blood was fresh" ---I cited that Ned smelled it. You were kind enough to confirm that dried blood does not smell. --Thank You Ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So now we've moved on from mathematics to the states of matter. Will I have to pull out my old college texts to follow this thread at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan the Small Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I shouldn't laugh at that...but I did Just a note: but I don't think the tower was ever without servants or a midwife since Lyanna and Rhaegar moved in. Pretty sure they had some people around. That's interesting as well. They never speak of any other company at ToJ. It would seem odd if there were though, as that many more people would know of the secret occurrence of what happened there. Lyannas death is vexing, instinct leads me to believe it was giving birth, primarily to Jon, but if its not that then why did she die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 But that's because Jaime doesn't know more than we do. And, even if he put Elia aside, he wouldn't want her or his children dead. I don't think he did it, but that text indicates nothing.No, I definitely think he did not mean for anything to happen to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonin Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 But that's because Jaime doesn't know more than we do. And, even if he put Elia aside, he wouldn't want her or his children dead. I don't think he did it, but that text indicates nothing. But grrm does know more than us. grrm chose a dream by Jaime to tell us things. grrm chose the word wife. He could have chosen ''' Elia and the children''' or '''the children and their mother''' both of which would not be out of place for Jaime but would be a very subtle indication by grrm to the reader that something has changed between Elia and Rhaegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I shouldn't laugh at that...but I didWhat? It's not my fault he roles like that.George: Your not being grey enough Elia.Elia: I'm trying George, I'm trying, I killed a fly today grrrrrr I am so cruel.Ser Creighton meets George rr Martin, few of you know this but George is a Weredog. This is when I broke into his house to get his notes on Jon' parents. You want to watch the whole thing to see how even as a dog Martins mind always goes in one direction.http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Mhn3xTlUk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 That's interesting as well. They never speak of any other company at ToJ. It would seem odd if there were though, as that many more people would know of the secret occurrence of what happened there. Lyannas death is vexing, instinct leads me to believe it was giving birth, primarily to Jon, but if its not that then why did she die Remember, "they" found Ned holding Lyanna. It was just Howland Reed left standing. They = / = Howland Reed. And Rhaegar and Lyanna were at the ToJ with Dayne and Whent for awhile before Rhaegar had to go back to KL. So who did all the cooking and cleaning? Where were they getting supplies? Might a powerful family from nearby be helping them? Perhaps the family of one of the knights already there and sworn to Rhaegar who then take in Ned and the baby and provide a neat little story in the form of Wylla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So now we've moved on from mathematics to the states of matter. Will I have to pull out my old college texts to follow this thread at this point?Of just sniff a bunch of stinky stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 If Elia was okay with everything, I think it was because Rhaegar explained everything. We know so little about Elia of Drone. It's...odd. We have Ned and others thoughts about Lyanna; Ned and others thoughts about Rhaegar. But with Elia there is so little there. Rhaegar and Elia were apparently "fond" of one another but what does that actually mean? And how much did she buy into Rhaegar's notions of prophecy? Was she actually ambitious? Right. We have the HotU vision in which Rhaegar talks to Elia about the prophesy of TPTWP and the dragon must have three heads. We know that Elia likely would die if she got pregnant again, so basically Rhaegar and Elia can never have sex again (except perhaps while she is menstruating--but I digress). Under the circumstances, it is not that hard to believe that Elia would agree to let Rhaegar marry Lyanna as a second wife and have the third head of the dragon. Elia would still be queen and her son, Aegon, would still be Rhaegar's heir. I am surprised that people have such a hard time believing that Elia might agree to this arrangement--especially when she was never really in love with Rhaegar to begin with (just "fond" of him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 What? It's not my fault he roles like that.George: Your not being grey enough Elia.Elia: I'm trying George, I'm trying, I killed a fly today grrrrrr I am so cruel.Ser Creighton meets George rr Martin, few of you know this but George is a Weredog. This is when I broke into his house to get his notes on Jon' parents. You want to watch the whole thing to see how even as a dog Martins mind always goes in one direction.http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Mhn3xTlUk This post makes all the bed of blood smelly talk worth it. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Our notion of what Hightower is like comes from Jaime's PoV,And since a few months, a little bit from the Barristan sample chapter :)BTW, when is v. 92 starting, tomorrw?Looking at the speed of 90, that would be a very good guess, yes :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So now we've moved on from mathematics to the states of matter. Will I have to pull out my old college texts to follow this thread at this point? I did not include temperature and atmospheric pressure into the specific density of blood being 1.0680 kg per liter.... but then GRRM does not give altitude and degrees.. nor does he give humidity... also the atmospheric pressure is never noted nor is the circumference and composition of the planet given... alas... there is only so much that can go in to a book. come to think of it does a liter of water in Westeros weigh a kilogram`? Planet Westeros is only 89.51% the size of Earth. http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/03/how-big-is-the-planet-that-westeros-is-on a liter of water on westeros only weighs 895.1 grams We need to calculate the boiling and freezing points of water under those conditions. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-altitude-pressure-d_462.html Westeros atmospheric pressure would be at a base of 12.56 as opposed to the earth's 14.7... the boiling point of water at sea level on westeros would be boiling point of water at 4500 meters on earth 86 degrees Celsius... The freezing point is a bit more complicated because water's melting/freezing temperature rises very slightly if pressure is decreased... no more than a couple of degrees celsius... for an 10.49% drop in pressure.---Just remember that snow and ice in Westeros can happen at 35 of 36 degrees F. By-the-by.... the Westerosi knights would also only be 89.51% as strong as Earth knights... If you apply the metric system to Westeros the mountain was 2.13 earth meters tall but 2.43 Westerosi meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan the Small Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Remember, "they" found Ned holding Lyanna. It was just Howland Reed left standing. They = / = Howland Reed. And Rhaegar and Lyanna were at the ToJ with Dayne and Whent for awhile before Rhaegar had to go back to KL. So who did all the cooking and cleaning? Where were they getting supplies? Might a powerful family from nearby be helping them? Perhaps the family of one of the knights already there and sworn to Rhaegar who then take in Ned and the baby and provide a neat little story in the form of Wylla. That does make sense, actually a lot more sense than I would have originally thought. Starfall is not so far from ToJ is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 That does make sense, actually a lot more sense than I would have originally thought. Starfall is not so far from ToJ is it? Indeed it is not. There are closer hold fasts, of course, but with Dayne already there and knowing how loyal his family was... :) Stick around! People here will blow your mind with things. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I did not include temperature and atmospheric pressure into the specific density of blood being 1.0680 kg per liter.... but then GRRM does not give altitude and degrees.. nor does he give humidity... also the atmospheric pressure is never noted nor is the circumference and composition of the planet given... alas... there is only so much that can go in to a book. come to think of it does a liter of water in Westeros weigh a kilogram`? I don't know but I think it is absolutely essential to the telling of A Song of Ice and Fire that we know. The whole story could depend on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 That does make sense, actually a lot more sense than I would have originally thought. Starfall is not so far from ToJ is it? 225 miles from ToJ to Starfall... give 40 miles a day for horseback... (not break-neck speed... not slow) 5 and a half to 6 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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