Casting News from San Diego

[Hiram McDrogon]

Aegon is just another obstacle. An obstacle that may have been set up a long time ago, but still just an obstacle.

I fear you're right, but I hope there's more to his role than that. We won't know until the next book comes out - or perhaps even the book after that. However, for now the lack of any signs of Aegon in the TV show do suggest - just suggest, mind you - that D&D consider him disposable for the (condensed?) story that they're trying to tell.

Further casting news next week of Aegon as the new lead cast member would of course suggest something different.

[Ran]

Oh? Okay, then. Doubtless he also has absolutely nothing relevant to do with or say about Varys or Illyrio and their motivations, somewhat central to some of the mysteries introduced back in A Game of Thrones.

Thanks for clearing that up. It's a lot easier to appreciate Game of Thrones once the interesting parts are stripped out.

[sj4iy]

I have no doubt that Aegon will be important to the story because this is a scheme that has lasted long before the story began. However, I don't see him being who he thinks he is. It's just too convenient. More likely, it was seen that the body of Aegon could never have been positively identified and a child who looks Targaryan (Blackfyre descent) has been molded for the throne. But I can't see Aegon being any of the prophesied heros destined to fight the Others. I think we were introduced to them in the very first book.

[Annara Snow]

I have no doubt that Argon is fake and will meet a bad end. But making Varys and Illyrio supporters of Dany? That 1) doesn't make sense based on their behavior so far and 2) completely changes their characters - and Varys is a pretty major character. If the show were to make Littlefinger a genuine Stark supporter, would you consider it a minor change? So, yeah...

[The Dragon Demands]

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/31/game-of-thrones-actress-humorous-response-to-being-recast

Wow, interesting video on all the recasts at the bottom of the article. Didn't know there were so many. Stannis's wife was recast, and I forgot about Beric.

Selyse Baratheon wasn't "recast" -- they had a placeholder extra standing next to Stannis in the Season 2 premiere, with no dialogue, and no indication that it was his wife (if you didn't read the credits).

Beric Dondarrion, while technically recast and with a single line of dialogue ("ser"), was also a "placeholder" - they always knew they'd cast a bigger actor in the role when it became important in a later season.

Over at Game of Thrones Wiki I explain this reasoning: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Recast_Characters

Even Rickard Karstark I'd put in as a "placeholder", even though the guy playing him in the Season 1 finale had a prominent line of dialogue, they never intended to keep him.

So by my estimates, major recurring characters who have been recast are:

• Gregor Clegane
• Daario Naharis
• Tommen Baratheon
• Myrcella Baratheon

Another minor point is that the actor playing "Bowen Marsh" in Season 1 was prominently stated in dialogue to be "Othell Yarwyk" in Season 4. He was actually never *confirmed* to be Marsh back in Season 1, we just assumed he was, and the actor was told by the writers he was Marsh even though he was never officially credited as "Bowen Marsh" and the dialogue makes no reference to it. So can we truly say he was "recast" if his role wasn't initially clear? I'm trying to minimize this down to the "major recastings that even casual viewers would inevitably notice".

[The Dragon Demands]

Major question for Ran:

I just saw the Season 5 casting video you made, and regarding Trystane you said you attempted to contact HBO. Yesterday you said on Twitter:

"Asked @HBO to clarify the press release, re: Trystane as heir, marriage arranged by Tywin. No comment from the production. "

https://twitter.com/westerosorg/status/495274172697022464

I need to ask a point of clarification, resulting from 140 word limit: are you saying that you have "no response" from HBO.....or, that you were responded to, but their official "response" was to tersely say "no comment"?

What the hell and I supposed to do with the Game of Throne Wiki family tree for House Martell, specifically the Sand Snakes?

They've established that there are 8, so I just created a template that links Oberyn and Ellaria and a single box between them saying "Sand Snakes, Oberyn's 8 bastard daughters".

Now I've got to deal with Tyene (how is that pronounced? the actress says "Tie-een")....being the daughter of Ellaria?

Why did they cast a white actress to play Tyene (who is white in the books)....only to then make her Ellaria's daughter? How the hell will I explain that the daughter of a salty and a sandy Dornishmen looks nothing like a Rhoynar? What "thought" went into this decision?

My hope is that Tyene "has daggers" but can still be a septa....if they have her hide daggers under her septa robes and she has some big fight scene where she's a "nun with knives" kind of thing going on. But I doubt they're doing that.

The reddit guy you quoted put it well: it's as if they merged all three Sand Snakes into one character description.....then cast 3 separate actresses to portray functionally the same role.

Well, I do think it's interesting to make Nymeria's mother a noblewoman from Yi Ti - makes it more diverse while still remaining "plausible" within the story, I have no issues with that. Seems interesting.

But wtf Tyene?

[The Dragon Demands]

If Season 5 is filming at an active bull fighting ring in Spain...is there any chance that they can work out a deal in which they can film footage of a bull fight and/or have a bull fighter in Game of Thrones costuming, and give it an authentic on-air death scene to represent the fighting pit of Yunkai? I like Bart the Bear but his interaction with the cast in "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" was a bit artificial.

You know, like what Apocalypse Now did: http://vimeo.com/21446230

They can film a "dark and edgy" version of the Cersei/Jaime sex scene to imply that it was rape, but they can't kill a bull in a licensed sporting event...because it's "obscene"?

[Ran]

They responded that they would not provide any clarification as to whether the press release was accurate in all particulars concerning Trystane.

ETA:

If they are in fact filming at an actively-used bullring, it's a disgraceful promotion of a bloodsport that belongs to the past. The idea that they would then compound that by actually hiring a bullfighter to kill a bull on camera is disturbing.

[Andrey]

If they do in the end film in an active bullring (and even film actual bloodsport show) I hope it will receive such an outrage that further season will be cancelled.

I never contemplated whether killing one innocent people to save millions is wrong, but maybe one bull can be sacrificed to save book fans from discovering the end of GRRM story first on this absolutely disgraceful mediocre adaptation. And his vision further butchered especially with the upcoming AFFC/ADWD story being adjusted "for televison standards"

[The Dragon Demands]

ETA:

If they are in fact filming at an actively-used bullring, it's a disgraceful promotion of a bloodsport that belongs to the past. The idea that they would then compound that by actually hiring a bullfighter to kill a bull on camera is disturbing.

....i think so too, I was just making a joking reference to that line from Apocalypse Now's infamous on-screen animal sacrifice: "They teach young men to drop fire on people, but they're not allowed to write f-k on the side of their airplanes....because it's "obscene"?!

Sorry, my "sarcasm mode" was going off the charts.

[sj4iy]

If they do in the end film in an active bullring (and even film actual bloodsport show) I hope it will receive such an outrage that further season will be cancelled.

Not happening. The show is already renewed through 6 seasons, they'll get their 7th. If anything, controversy drums up higher ratings. Of course, I personally don't see the big deal about where they shoot something...and I doubt many others would, either.

I never contemplated whether killing one innocent people to save millions is wrong, but maybe one bull can be sacrificed to save book fans from discovering the end of GRRM story first on this absolutely disgraceful mediocre adaptation. And his vision further butchered especially with the upcoming AFFC/ADWD story being adjusted "for televison standards"

You just defeated your own argument. To say that it's an outrage to film somewhere because bulls are killed there, then to say "Well, sacrificing one bull to end the show before it spoils the books would be worth it!", then you've just made yourself look like a hypocrite.

[Annara Snow]

If Season 5 is filming at an active bull fighting ring in Spain...is there any chance that they can work out a deal in which they can film footage of a bull fight and/or have a bull fighter in Game of Thrones costuming, and give it an authentic on-air death scene to represent the fighting pit of Yunkai? I like Bart the Bear but his interaction with the cast in "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" was a bit artificial.

You know, like what Apocalypse Now did: http://vimeo.com/21446230

They can film a "dark and edgy" version of the Cersei/Jaime sex scene to imply that it was rape, but they can't kill a bull in a licensed sporting event...because it's "obscene"?

Um, it may have something to do with the fact that nobody was actually raped during the making of that scene, as opposed to actually killing a bull. Which is why your "joke" falls flat, to put it mildly, because, guess what... killing an animal =/= writing swear words.

[FreeParking]

Blood for the Blood God!!!

[The Dragon Demands]

Blood for the Blood God!!!

My armor is contempt.

My shield is disgust.

My sword is hatred.

[The Dragon Demands]

Um, it may have something to do with the fact that nobody was actually raped during the making of that scene, as opposed to actually killing a bull. Which is why your "joke" falls flat, to put it mildly, because, guess what... killing an animal =/= writing swear words.

I'm sorry, it was a bad joke. I keep trying to force movie references.

[Konradsmith]

It seems like too few people have seen Apocalypse Now...

But no, they won't do that with a real bull. IIRC there weren't bulls in the Meereenese fighting pits. There were boars though, I think.

I can't see them passing up a great location like that for moral reasons though. Qualms aside, it looks like Daznak's Pit should. It's true that Luck was cancelled after PETA complained bitterly but I think that was more a pretext on HBO's part to get rid of a show that wasn't doing well. Sure they pretended that the cancellation was pro bono, but I doubt that HBO makes its decisions with the welfare of horses or bulls in mind. Whether they should or not is a different matter but it ought not to factor into how we consider the show artistically or as an adaptation.

[Beric175]

@Ran: That stuff with Aegon was not nuanced, it was contrived and I had no attachment to any of these characters, nor were they interesting enough to make me care about the convoluted plots Varys is trying to concoct....in fact that's how a lot of people feel about the 4th and 5th book: too much worldbuilding involving too many characters noone has any significant attachment to.

Look both aegon and varys are 'mummer's dragon(s)', varys because he travelled with a group of mummers in his youth and is most likely a Blackfyre and Aegon because he's meant to pass as a targaryen but is most likely an impostor without knowing it. All that will end up happening is that dany and Aegon fight it out, Dany wins, becaomes the slayer of lies and moves on from there. He's not developed enough as a character, nor is the concept of the puppet ruler that Varys secretely hopes to influence interesting enough, to add on to a show that will start contracting by the end of season 5. The showrunners have said that season 5 is the last season where the show expands because afterwards it has to get to the finishing line because the kids are growing up and the budget does not allow for thousands of extra characters just to make book fans happy. They will give lines and actions of some book characters to other ones and it will be a much more straightforward story because the books have been meandering for 2 volumes in my opinion.

What will probably end up happening on the show is that Varys will end up supporting dany instead of aegon because he is the only King's Landing character that has mentioned her consistently on the show. Does it mean it's less contrived? yes. Does it condense the story for tv in a way that looks effective at least on paper? Yes.

[Beric175]

yeah, the characters on the show will change because having all of that material on screen is just not possible because thay already have to work a whole year just on 10 episodes so yeah...varys and LF, and most of the other characters will end up different from the book characters simply because a lot of elements from the books will end up on the cutting room floor.

[Ran]

That stuff with Aegon was not nuanced, it was contrived

No.

That stuff with Aegon was not nuanced, it was contrived

That sounds like your problem. I'm sorry.

in fact that's how a lot of people feel about the 4th and 5th book: too much worldbuilding involving too many characters noone has any significant attachment to.

And that sounds like their problem. I'm sorry.

The show has limitations in what it can cover. It's better to remove material to make room than to add bullshit in preference to that material. So that's not the issue. What I'm arguing against the band-wagoning that says that material that has basically always been a part of the plan for the series -- doubtless material that Benioff and Weiss became aware of after talking with George at length -- can somehow be lightly cut. It cannot. It's a genuine loss. But if they have 70 hours to work with, well, something has to give somewhere. It's nothing to celebrate.

[Andrey]

Not happening. The show is already renewed through 6 seasons, they'll get their 7th. If anything, controversy drums up higher ratings. Of course, I personally don't see the big deal about where they shoot something...and I doubt many others would, either.

You just defeated your own argument. To say that it's an outrage to film somewhere because bulls are killed there, then to say "Well, sacrificing one bull to end the show before it spoils the books would be worth it!", then you've just made yourself look like a hypocrite.

I absolutely hate the show but I always shook head in despair when my many of my comrades haters were writing that maybe HBO will pause further filming and wait for George to finish. I'm perfectly aware this is immensely popular and successful show and even if GRRM didn't reveal anything to D&D about ending (we know he did) it would still be filmed without problem.

In my whole post I just tried to made myself look like a bit funny, nothing else. Just a joke/sarcasm. I thought it was obvious.