ARYa_Nym Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 The King can do as he likes. Arya "maimed" the Crown Prince. No one outside of the North and her relatives would care. The king can make his own decisions but Robert's decision was not to uphold the law. He told Cersei it was over. Ned was to punish Arya not her. ETA: Just to be clear and reiterate this the king's order and thus the law since the king's word is law was that punishment was to come from Ned Stark not Cersei or Jamie Lannister. She did not have the right to order Jamie to kill or maim Arya. If the king can do as he likes the queen must wait for his decision and listen unless he gave her the authority to act which he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I think this is a good post. The problem with all of these speculative "what if" topics always is that they are...well speculative and counterfactual history at best (well the majority of topics here are that kind ;) )I think your post shows this quite well. Jaime had it in him to do such thing, that cannot be denied, esp considering that at this moment he still his 100% "Cercei's bitch".I just never saw him as a cold, ruthless killer. Impulsive asshole for sure. I mean he is no Sandor Clegane who was at best a "I follow orders" type. The Hound justifies the Mycah slaughter till the end.What do you mean by "to the end"? He justifies it once, before the fight with Beric, saying that Mycah had attacked Joffrey, doesn't say anything when she retorts that this is not true, and later after the fight and his breakdown because of the fire, lists killing Mycah as one of his crimes/sins (or at least those related to Arya) he confesses, alongside standing by and not intervening when Sansa was beaten and when Ned was executed. Also, I can't help but notice, it's a bit easier to live your life being impulsive when you're a man from one of the great houses of Westeros, Tywin Lannister's golden boy, who could choose to be the heir to Casterly Rock any moment he felt like it, than it is if you're the second son of a lowborn family that was raised by the Lannisters from the position of kennelmaster two generations ago, whose life and livelihood depend on following orders, while acting on impulse could mean being executed, killed or forced to run away and become an outlaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woman of War Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I always wondered about that passage. I mean would Jaime really have been that moronic/insane/idiotic to kill the 9 year old daughter of the Lord of one of the most powerful houses in Westeros who furthermore was BFF with the king.Maybe he was but it is really hard to figure out what the consequences would have looked like.It would have been idiotic, just as it was completely irrational - apart from asking for the murder of a child - when Cersei wanted Ned Stark's daughter killed.Unlike the wisdom of killing 7 year-old son of that same Lotd. ;)In Bran's case Jaime had reason to assume tha no one would ever find out what he did, in Arya's case it might have been obvious. When Mycah was slaughtered by Sandor it was just some commoner kid, not a horrid murder in Westerosi Nobles' eyes as it is in ours - and in the eyes of Mycah's parents. But in Arya's case it would have meant war I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime4Brienne Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Throwing Bran out of the window to protect his sister and himself is one thing. Cold bloodedly hunt down Arya and kill her? Not his style. Not granting Cersei her wish? Not his style either (at that point). In his POV we see he is conflicted on the issue and would rather not think about what would have happened if he had caught her. My guess? He simply did not try very hard to find her. He doesn't find her, he doesn't have to decide. Crisis averted. This post sums up my feelings exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krtmd Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 My point earlier was that they were all searching for Arya - King's men, Lannister men, Stark men. Jaime says later that it's fortunate that he didn't catch up with her, because he might have done what Cersei wanted him to. But he didn't actually harm Arya. I object to the notion that one is guilty of a crime for simply thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I object to the notion that one is guilty of a crime for simply thinking about it. Imagine if that were the case for us all... Every time someone cuts us off in traffic, or is rude to us, the thought that crosses our mind... Also, he would play Cersei, too. He didn't do everything she wanted him to do, and in the end, he didn't do much of anything she wanted him to do, except go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 The King can do as he likes. Arya "maimed" the Crown Prince. No one outside of the North and her relatives would care. Those relatives just include three Lord Paramounts, basically three quarter of Robert's powerbase... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Not entirely, as shown when he asked Ned to help Joffrey on his death bed and regretted his failings as a father. The King can do as he likes. Arya "maimed" the Crown Prince. No one outside of the North and her relatives would care. So, nobody outside half of the kingdom, plus the Riverlands, would care? That's good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Not entirely, as shown when he asked Ned to help Joffrey on his death bed and regretted his failings as a father. The King can do as he likes. Arya "maimed" the Crown Prince. No one outside of the North and her relatives would care. You mean The North, the Riverlands, the Vale...etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainGhost Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I think Jaime's actions would have depended entirely on his mood when he found Arya. What would have happened is that Nymeria would have attacked him, Arya might possibly have fought as well, Jaime would have gotten angry and probably killed the two she-wolves if he could or at the very least maimed Arya. Then he would have blamed it on the wolf but it probably still would have meant war. If he had come across Arya as a scared little girl who pleaded for mercy, then most likely he would have done her no harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Lord's Daughter Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I think Jaime's actions would have depended entirely on his mood when he found Arya. What would have happened is that Nymeria would have attacked him, Arya might possibly have fought as well, Jaime would have gotten angry and probably killed the two she-wolves if he could or at the very least maimed Arya. Then he would have blamed it on the wolf but it probably still would have meant war. If he had come across Arya as a scared little girl who pleaded for mercy, then most likely he would have done her no harm. Arya's first instinct after getting caught is to fight. In that case, I can see Jaime getting mad at her, and being very impulsive, I can also see him hurting her, especially if he found her in the first or second day. As for the claim that he wasn't looking too hard, he was leading a search for Arya on the fourth day, so he was definitely looking. And while thinking of hurting someone is not a crime, Jaime is a man known for acting rashly and is also a man who threw a 7 year old out of a tower window. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he would have loped of Arya's hand. And for the, Robert could have killed her, sure he could. Then he'd have to deal with the North, Riverlands in open rebellion and Dorne and Vale remaining neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 My point earlier was that they were all searching for Arya - King's men, Lannister men, Stark men. Jaime says later that it's fortunate that he didn't catch up with her, because he might have done what Cersei wanted him to. But he didn't actually harm Arya. I object to the notion that one is guilty of a crime for simply thinking about it. He searched for her in order to fullfill Cercei twisted wishes. Jaime Lannister is never despicted as a great tracker, he just failed as he does many times in the story. Its an attempt, and it is a crime. Jaime doesnt doubt he would had killed her; so I dont get the "might" thing or "depending on his mood" thing you people are bringing. Just accept him as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krtmd Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 He searched for her in order to fullfill Cercei twisted wishes. Jaime Lannister is never despicted as a great tracker, he just failed as he does many times in the story. Its an attempt, and it is a crime. Jaime doesnt doubt he would had killed her; so I dont get the "might" thing or "depending on his mood" thing you people are bringing. Just accept him as he is. I'm not the one having an issue accepting Jaime as he is. I'm also not the one adding crimes to his 'rap sheet'. Arya was not harmed or maimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Jaime doesnt doubt he would had killed her; so I dont get the "might" thing or "depending on his mood" thing you people are bringing. Jaime didn't say he would have killed her. He didn't say what he would have done. And he's never one to say what he means, so good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I'm not the one having an issue accepting Jaime as he is. I'm also not the one adding crimes to his 'rap sheet'. Arya was not harmed or maimed.So attempted murder is not a crime?? Ok then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 You mean The North, the Riverlands, the Vale...etc? Not quite. The North and the Riverlands. I doubt Lysa would care. The rest of Westeros would either. Those relatives just include three Lord Paramounts, basically three quarter of Robert's powerbase... 2 Lords Paramount. Lysa's one of those relatives and she wouldn't care. So, essentially it would be the Starks and Tullys vs. the Baratheons and Lannisters. The Lannisters are more powerful than either the Starks or Tullys and without Robert dying, the Baratheons represent the combined strength of the Crownlands, the Stormlands and the Royal Fleet. So let's check. The Lannisters and Baratheons have superiority in numbers, wealth and equipment. The Lannister soldiers are well trained. The Baratheons have a powerful Fleet and the Lannisters have a decent one while the Starks and Tullys have negligible naval power. And who knows... Balon might join in when the Starks march south like he did in the story. The king can make his own decisions but Robert's decision was not to uphold the law. He told Cersei it was over. Ned was to punish Arya not her. ETA: Just to be clear and reiterate this the king's order and thus the law since the king's word is law was that punishment was to come from Ned Stark not Cersei or Jamie Lannister. She did not have the right to order Jamie to kill or maim Arya. If the king can do as he likes the queen must wait for his decision and listen unless he gave her the authority to act which he didn't. Robert made that decision after Arya was found. In this scenario she's killed before Robert can give any such order. Not really. He never said other wise until Arya was already found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I don't see what caring has to do with anything. Most of Westeros doesn't care about what Ramsay is doing to Theon. The North may even think he deserves it. Most didn't genuinely care about Sansa and what she went through in KL. Does that make it ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I don't see what caring has to do with anything. Most of Westeros doesn't care about what Ramsay is doing to Theon. The North may even think he deserves it. Most didn't genuinely care about Sansa and what she went through in KL. Does that make it ok? Well, considering that Arya "maimed" Joffrey for no reason... yes. It would. Now, we know what really happened and that Joff started it, but not everyone does. Just looking at the way it's presented by Cersei, yeah... I don't see anything wrong with it. The caring part means that almost no one's going to raise a fuss over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Robert made that decision after Arya was found. In this scenario she's killed before Robert can give any such order. Not really. He never said other wise until Arya was already found.She chose to make the decision herself instead of waiting for the king's judgement. She is in the wrong. She is not the king here and was not given the authority to enact justice. He still gave his orders and her decision whether she made it before or not goes against the king's word. She was still trying to push for what she and Jamie failed to do and he shot her down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Well, considering that Arya "maimed" Joffrey for no reason... yes. It would. Now, we know what really happened and that Joff started it, but not everyone does. Just looking at the way it's presented by Cersei, yeah... I don't see anything wrong with it. The caring part means that almost no one's going to raise a fuss over it. She didn't maim him for no reason and regardless those other examples I gave the majority of the realm didn't care about the details. They didn't care that the victims were innocent or if they deserved it or not and even less made a fuss over it than they would had Jaimie killed Arya. That doesn't mean it's ok. Robert didn't even believe the story by Cersei or Joffrey and Renly also thought it was suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.