R+L=J v.96

[UnmaskedLurker]

Yes, that's what she meant.

Also, a nice demonstration of different levels of reading comprehension.

I am really sorry about the gender thing--normally I am very careful not to make that mistake, but I was in a rush and trying to get out the door as I was typing and posting. I am glad, however, that my reading comprehension skills are still in tact. :cool4:

[sj4iy]

Oh sweet 7....I take it back

It's the meaning behind the words. Geeeez

Look what you did! XD

[Ser Duncan the Small]

Oh sweet 7....I take it back

It's the meaning behind the words. Geeeez

Right? I feel like I had to become a lawyer to put forth clues regarding a theory in a fantasy story

[Alia of the knife]

It's more common than people think, specially in homes that are religious. I wouldn't discard it if we remember that, while the Daynes are Dornish, that doesn't mean they also follow their open-mindedness. In fact, I would say they consider things like honour in a very high standard, and that includes the "innocence" of women.

And the Daynes as the holders of Dawn might indicate a more reverent/"spiritual" House, especially given Asharas own haunting persona, as well as the reputation Arthur had for honor and being KG. It might mean that after the birth of her child, and the loss of everyone she had loved, she might go off to find her own answers to find peace, i.e., become Quaithe, leaving her child in the safety of her family and to make a good marriage.

We did see in the show, the mysterious Quaithe seemed to recognize Jorah. :ph34r: Maybe she is meant to take on Mel as a shadow binder.

While I like the notion that she might have been Lewyns mysterious lover, it was said if the lady were still alive, she would be an old woman now, which I read that as Lewyn being Elias uncle, he was probably a good deal older, maybe older than Selmy was at the time, and Selmy would have been in his early forties, so for Ashara, I still say it was Brandon whom she mourned.

[Jon_Samwell_Snow]

Four more to go until we make 100.

[stateofdissipation]

Oh sweet 7....I take it back

It's the meaning behind the words. Geeeez

Like

Text/canon The meaning behind

old recurring

not always literal. This actually occurred,

a fever dream holds deep meaning/makes sense

no ordinary three finest knights he had ever know

seven facing three arrive

wraiths on horses made of mist. dialog is likely paraphrased

was in the context of a dream so don't presume to argue against it

geeeez... that is just from the first paragraph

it continues.

"I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them. events on the Trident

Nothing at all aware of the battle, and the outcome

Usurper an heir that is still living that has a better claim

Ser Oswell. these Kingsguard

don't get to make up their own orders. Nothing at all

Nothing at all The primary duty of the kingsguard

the first duty The primary duty of the kingsguard

Aerys The Targaryen dynasty

The first duty nothing at all

Yeah--- geeeeze it is obvious... so long as we stay away from text or canon... and fill in the blanks required to reach the end...

[Jon_Samwell_Snow]

Someone please update me about what's going up. I haven't been on all day.

[BearQueen87]

And the Daynes as the holders of Dawn might indicate a more reverent/"spiritual" House, especially given Asharas own haunting persona, as well as the reputation Arthur had for honor and being KG. It might mean that after the birth of her child, and the loss of everyone she had loved, she might go off to find her own answers to find peace, i.e., become Quaithe, leaving her child in the safety of her family and to make a good marriage.

We did see in the show, the mysterious Quaithe seemed to recognize Jorah. :ph34r: Maybe she is meant to take on Mel as a shadow binder.

While I like the notion that she might have been Lewyns mysterious lover, it was said if the lady were still alive, she would be an old woman now, which I read that as Lewyn being Elias uncle, he was probably a good deal older, maybe older than Selmy was at the time, and Selmy would have been in his early forties, so for Ashara, I still say it was Brandon whom she mourned.

I sorta think Quaithe is Sheira Seastar (fire and ice each need their Great Bastard) but as far as Ashara goes, I think she's just out somewhere in the world. I'm not even sure if she'll re-enter the picture or if it'll be told through HR

[Jane Parallel]

I believe in the R+L=J but I don't know why I suspect R+L=M M meaning Meera...

It is obviously that R+L=J but I don't buy all that "obviouslyness" ... I don't know... Martin may have been trolling us...

[Shinjuku Thief]

I really have no idea how you got that cause I got 35.2753.

Indeed. It really couldn't take any less that 35.6724 days.

[BearQueen87]

I believe in the R+L=J but I don't know why I suspect R+L=M M meaning Meera...

It is obviously that R+L=J but I don't buy all that "obviouslyness" ... I don't know... Martin may have been trolling us...

Haven't heard that one before. I've heard H+A = M/J

Evidence? Or is it just a suspicion

[honeyed chicken]

To

BearQueen87:

I think we have some confusion going on. I'm not counting Harrenhal in the year I'm talking about.

I'm strictly talking about from the moment Lyanna left her family (or was abducted ) as they were journeying from WF to Riverrun, until she dies in the toj - that was about a year/12 months, right?

That is the period I'm talking about where we don't know a thing about what she was doing (aside from the getting pregnant part). Or am I missing something (I've asked this before and been confirmed in it).

Another question to consider about this period: Jon's conception would have been about 3 months after she left/was abducted. Did Brandon and Rickard die prior to that? Seems like there was time for that to happen. Given Lyanna's impetuous character (wolf blood) that she would have left Rhaegar out of grief and guilt and ridden back to her family. Jon (her son) reacts the same way when his family is threatened.

This doesn't seem that hard to me. It's what Jon would do - and Lyanna too, unless she really was a hostage. Even then she's wild enough to escape, and is a great horse rider.

The next question is where would she go?

This "fan fic" does not an iceberg make (and yes, I know you said you would shut up after this post, but it really needs to be responded to). There is absolutely no suggestion in the text that Lyanna went back to WF after becoming pregnant. There is every suggestion that she stayed hidden with Rhaegar the entire time. Just because there is a period of time for which actions are not accounted for does not mean that wild speculation about what a character might have done during that time creates a serious doubt about another character.

You seem to be obsessed with the idea that GRRM has told us almost nothing about Lyarra for some secret reason. While that might be true, we have no real reason to believe it is true. Without some hint in the text, it is basically "fan fic" to invent such a scenario. As noted above by a different poster, Lyarra is at best an ice cube that you insist on turning into an imagined iceberg.

I'm no more obsessed with Lyarra than many here with HR.

Reed would have had one view of the Lyanna/Rhaegar, and Lyarra quite another. It is true that I was asking about Lyarra before even coming to this thread. There is a saying that sometimes silence speaks louder than words. I have a feeling that's the case here. And I can't help but speculate on the origins of that silence. If that's obsession, so be it.

You could say I'm obsessed with Benjen as well. He's another potential witness to the events surrounding Jon's birth that Martin dangled under our noses then whisked away before we even realized, "Hey! He might have the answers to some of the big questions."* It seems unlikely that Benjen will be redeemed from the north, but who knows? As Bran's power grows, he may find his uncle - and perhaps he will reveal his grandmother as well.

As for my "fan fic" as you call it, where there's a void the mind rushes in. I would like to create a number of possible scenarios for my own amusement. I know this site does not allow fan fiction and if that's how my musings are seen then I will keep them to myself.

* in the sack and burning of WF we lost all of the remaining household members who might have witnessed a possible return to WF by a pregnant Lyanna. That's one more reason to obsess about Lyarra - if she's even alive - she may be the last person who could tell us if Lyanna did indeed return.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

There is probably a whole year from the moment Lyanna was "taken" by Rhaegar and they died. In that lapse of time, they spent probably two months travelling from wherever they were to Dorne, and just that they had sex. Unless of course we consider Rhaegar is the kind of guy who would deflower a girl in some random inn or while camping with Arthur and Whent. He ain't Robert.

[Ser Leftwich]

On Lyarra:

To speculate, there needs to be at least one point of reference to start from; with her, there are no points of references except that: she was alive and birthed children.

Both of which could be reasoned/argued/speculated away in the same way that Lyarra's massive importance to when Lyanna came back to visit her at WF is argued. (e.g. Maybe Brandon, Ned, Lyanna, and Benjen had different mothers, you never know for sure. So maybe, yada, yada.) In short, it is fan fiction. ,

That Lyanna was taken/kidnapped/left is a known. That Ned found her in a 'bed of blood' by Ned is a known. You can add in that Lyanna stopped to visit her good friend Lord Walder Frey for advice which traveling to and from WF. It might have happened, but there are absolutely no points of reference.

TLDR: One can not draw a line without two points, let alone without one.

[BearQueen87]

To

BearQueen87:

I think we have some confusion going on. I'm not counting Harrenhal in the year I'm talking about.

I'm strictly talking about from the moment Lyanna left her family (or was abducted ) as they were journeying from WF to Riverrun, until she dies in the toj - that was about a year/12 months, right?

That is the period I'm talking about where we don't know a thing about what she was doing (aside from the getting pregnant part). Or am I missing something (I've asked this before and been confirmed in it).

Another question to consider about this period: Jon's conception would have been about 3 months after she left/was abducted. Did Brandon and Rickard die prior to that? Seems like there was time for that to happen. Given Lyanna's impetuous character (wolf blood) that she would have left Rhaegar out of grief and guilt and ridden back to her family. Jon (her son) reacts the same way when his family is threatened.

This doesn't seem that hard to me. It's what Jon would do - and Lyanna too, unless she really was a hostage. Even then she's wild enough to escape, and is a great horse rider.

The next question is where would she go?

There is probably a whole year from the moment Lyanna was "taken" by Rhaegar and they died. In that lapse of time, they spent probably two months travelling from wherever they were to Dorne, and just that they had sex. Unless of course we consider Rhaegar is the kind of guy who would deflower a girl in some random inn or while camping with Arthur and Whent. He ain't Robert.

I think Ser Creighton speculated that they might have been in Essos for a bit (one of the free cities, maybe?) but yeah, I tend to agree: from the Riverlands to the ToJ, with a stop to get hitched in both traditions, and then it's candlelight and Barry White.

ETA: and I do not think that Lyarra is anywhere near as significant as HR. HR is the last survivor of the ToJ, outside of infant Jon. He knows things. Many things. Lyarra was never a factor until she suddenly appeared on a family tree.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I think Ser Creighton speculated that they might have been in Essos for a bit (one of the free cities, maybe?) but yeah, I tend to agree: from the Riverlands to the ToJ, with a stop to get hitched in both traditions, and then it's candlelight and Barry White.

Barry White Barry White or Rhaegar playing Barry White's songs in his harp and his "iron tone"?

[Ser Leftwich]

Barry White Barry White or Rhaegar playing Barry White's songs in his harp and his "iron tone"?

Barristan Whyte and his Lusty Luthiers, discreetly in the balcony behind a curtain.

[BearQueen87]

Barry White Barry White or Rhaegar playing Barry White's songs in his harp and his "iron tone"?

Rhaegar IS Barry White. It is known.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Barristan Whyte and his Lusty Luthiers, discreetly in the balcony behind a curtain.

:lol: I actually read Barristan too :lmao:

Rhaegar IS Barry White. It is known.

I suppose Rhaegar played the harp and sing while Arthur and Oswell were behind them, making the chorus... like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sNAs6QS0II

[Alia of the knife]

Haven't heard that one before. I've heard H+A = M/J

Evidence? Or is it just a suspicion

I'm good with H+A=M/J because it is known if Jon has a twin sister, it's green-haired Wylla "Manderly." :)

As once the Starks took the Manderlys into their den, the Manderlys returned the favor, hence Alfies star wars analogy and her hair hidden beneath the green. :)