R+L=J v.96

[Ygrain]

It can mean 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 months...

Nonsense. No-one would ever say that human pregnancy lasts almost a year, so 9 is definitely not an option.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Do we know how many months the Rebellion lasted?

Close to a year, thus 11 to 13 months, I'd say.

Important to remember that between Lyanna disappearing, and the actual start of the Rebellion, some time passed as well.

[BearQueen87]

Close to a year, thus 11 to 13 months, I'd say.

Important to remember that between Lyanna disappearing, and the actual start of the Rebellion, some time passed as well.

Right. It does not start the night Lyanna is "taken." Words has to get to Brandon, he has to travel to KL, he and his men have to be imprisoned, Rickard has to be sent for, the trial by combat has to take place, Aerys has to send word for Ned and Robert's heads, Jon Arryn has to refuse to give them up, banners must be called. AAAAAAAANNNNND then we get the full big rebellion.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Right. It does not start the night Lyanna is "taken." Words has to get to Brandon, he has to travel to KL, he and his men have to be imprisoned, Rickard has to be sent for, the trial by combat has to take place, Aerys has to send word for Ned and Robert's heads, Jon Arryn has to refuse to give them up, banners must be called. AAAAAAAANNNNND then we get the full big rebellion.

Exactly. Between Lyanna's disappearance and the actual day Jon Arryn raised his banner, a couple of weeks (roughly 4 - 6, we agreed upon in this thread, I seem to recall?) passed.

Only then does the "close to a year" period start.

The Rebellion lasting "close to a year" seems to be longer than 12 months, as quite a few months into the rebellion*, the Siege at Storm's End begins, which would also last "close to a year", but which got lifted rather quickly after the Sack (and thus the end of the war), making the "close to a year" of the siege slightly less than the 12 months.

*judged by the events taking place in between the start of the rebellion, and the start of the actual siege:

• fighting in Gulltown, in which Robert takes place

Robert traveling to SE

Robert fighting at Summerhal

Robert returning to SE

Robert fighting as Ashford

The forces from Ashford go lay siege at SE

[Chebyshov]

Exactly. Between Lyanna's disappearance and the actual day Jon Arryn raised his banner, a couple of weeks (roughly 4 - 6, we agreed upon in this thread, I seem to recall?) passed.

Only then does the "close to a year" period start.

The Rebellion lasting "close to a year" seems to be longer than 12 months, as quite a few months into the rebellion*, the Siege at Storm's End begins, which would also last "close to a year", but which got lifted rather quickly after the Sack (and thus the end of the war), making the "close to a year" of the siege slightly less than the 12 months.

*judged by the events taking place in between the start of the rebellion, and the start of the actual siege:

• fighting in Gulltown, in which Robert takes place

Robert traveling to SE

Robert fighting at Summerhal

Robert returning to SE

Robert fighting as Ashford

The forces from Ashford go lay siege at SE

Looks right, and that's where I always wonder about the timeline. It seems the siege at SE starts right around when the Tully banners are raised, and that's about 12 months before the sack of KL. So any idea of the time-frame of the fighting in Gulltown to Ashford?

[Debra Morgan]

Nonsense. No-one would ever say that human pregnancy lasts almost a year, so 9 is definitely not an option.

I said about the Rebellion

[UnmaskedLurker]

I said about the Rebellion

Yes, but the language is that the Rebellion lasted about a year. Given that a pregnancy lasts 9 months and no one would refer to a pregnancy lasting about a year, the Rebellion must have lasted more than nine months because it lasted about a year. He was using logic--he was not claiming you were talking about pregnancy directly.

[Ygrain]

I said about the Rebellion

Yes, but the language is that the Rebellion lasted about a year. Given that a pregnancy lasts 9 months and no one would refer to a pregnancy lasting about a year, the Rebellion must have lasted more than nine months because it lasted about a year. He was using logic--he was not claiming you were talking about pregnancy directly.

Yes, that's what she meant.

Also, a nice demonstration of different levels of reading comprehension.

[BearQueen87]

I said about the Rebellion

So, based on the timeline a few people just provided we can safely rule out Brandon. You also mentioned Ben, Aerys, and Arthur Dayne. What evidence--however big or small--do you have that leads you to any of those men?

[Alia of the knife]

Allyria Dayne?

Still don't buy that hypothesis. I consider that to be as crackpot as Darkstar is the bastard of [insert character here].

Why?

In real llife, actor Jack Nicholson was raised with the belief his birth mother was his "sister."

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Why?

In real llife, actor Jack Nicholson was raised with the belief his birth mother was his "sister."

It's more common than people think, specially in homes that are religious. I wouldn't discard it if we remember that, while the Daynes are Dornish, that doesn't mean they also follow their open-mindedness. In fact, I would say they consider things like honour in a very high standard, and that includes the "innocence" of women.

[BearQueen87]

It's more common than people think, specially in homes that are religious. I wouldn't discard it if we remember that, while the Daynes are Dornish, that doesn't mean they also follow their open-mindedness. In fact, I would say they consider things like honour in a very high standard, and that includes the "innocence" of women.

Especially in the world of Planetos where a woman's virtue (or at least the appearance of it) is paramount. Ashara is the only daughter of a very powerful family; her virtue, to make a good marriage, is really important. If she suddenly had a bastard child, good luck marrying her off to another powerful family.

[Ser Leftwich]

Why, just the usual :-)

These things go in neverending circles. There are R+L=/=J weeks, why were the KG at ToJ, Rhaegar/Lyanna bashing, why were the KG at ToJ, Targaryens are fireproof, why were the KG at ToJ, why did the KG fight Ned... did I leave anything out? - Oh, yes, why were the KG at ToJ :-)

Don't forget: Jon's hair/eye color? That it takes more than 35.2752 days to travel from KL to the ToJ, adjusting for wind direction and road conditions, how could Ned have gotten there at the right time for the story?!?!

[sj4iy]

Don't forget: Jon's hair/eye color? That it takes more than 35.2752 days to travel from KL to the ToJ, adjusting for wind direction and road conditions, how could Ned have gotten there at the right time for the story?!?!

Not more math!

[BearQueen87]

Don't forget: Jon's hair/eye color? That it takes more than 35.2752 days to travel from KL to the ToJ, adjusting for wind direction and road conditions, how could Ned have gotten there at the right time for the story?!?!

I really have no idea how you got that cause I got 35.2753.

[Ser Duncan the Small]

Don't forget: Jon's hair/eye color? That it takes more than 35.2752 days to travel from KL to the ToJ, adjusting for wind direction and road conditions, how could Ned have gotten there at the right time for the story?!?!

Almost like someone would have planned it that way... :eek:

[Jon Weirgaryen]

What is this, a kind of folklore? Remembering some of the trolling in a yet blessedly troll-free thread? Mathness begone!

[BearQueen87]

What is this, a kind of folklore? Remembering some of the trolling in a yet blessedly troll-free thread? Mathness begone!

It's like Bloody Mary. If we say it 3xs, it'll appear.

And R+L = J cause tons of clues!

[stateofdissipation]

As requested, but I am too slow to get on page one.

Ned's recurring dream, so don't presume to argue against it because it is a fever dream. It is recurring, and it holds deep meaning for Ned. It makes sense to Ned. It is a cause of much of his grief. He killed three of the finest knights he had ever known, and the best of all, Ser Arthur Dayne.

Ned and his friends arrive at the tower, as they had in life. Again, this is reality based dreaming. This actually occurred, and the dialog is likely paraphrased in Ned's memory, because he is unable to get a lifelike image of his friends. He vividly remembers the three Kingsguard, though.

Ned's recurring dream,

He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks. and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.---aGoT page 409

so don't presume to argue against it because it is a fever dream.

"A small cup," Ned said. "my head is still heavy with milk of the poppy."---aGoT page 412.

I might mention, though, that Ned's account, which you refer to, was in the context of a dream... and a fever dream at that. Our dreams are not always literal. --GRRM

http://www.westeros....he_Tower_of_Joy

It is recurring,

He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks. and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.---aGoT page 409

and it holds deep meaning for Ned. It makes sense to Ned.

I might mention, though, that Ned's account, which you refer to, was in the context of a dream... and a fever dream at that. Our dreams are not always literal. --GRRM

http://www.westeros....he_Tower_of_Joy

It is a cause of much of his grief.

Notably the assertion has a basis.

“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”---aGoT page 410

"The finest knight I ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne, who fought with a blade called Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star, They called him the Sword of the Morning, and he would have killed me but for Howland Reed." Father had gotten sad then , and he would say no more,---aCoK page 332

He killed three of the finest knights he had ever known, and the best of all, Ser Arthur Dayne.

Hightower and Whent are mentioned or remembered by Ned in aGoT pages 409, 410,and 607-608

Dayne gets is mentioned or remembered by Ned in aGoT 409, 410, 608 and aCoK 332 Dayne has the distinction of being called splendid and the finest knight.

Yet these were no ordinary three.--- aGoT page 409

Afterward; Ser Oswell Whent helped Jamie to his feet,and the White Bull himself, Lord Commander Ser Gerold Hightower, fastened the snowy cloak of the Kingsguard about his shoulders.--- 607-608aGoT

Brandon fell to him(Rhaegar), and Bronze Yohn Royce, and even the splendid Arthur Dayne, the Sword of morning --aGoT page 608

"The finest knight I ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne, who fought with a blade called Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star, They called him the Sword of the Morning, and he would have killed me but for Howland Reed." Father had gotten sad then , and he would say no more,---aCoK page 332

Notably the text does not match the assertion.

Ned and his friends arrive at the tower, as they had in life.

In the dream they were only shadows, wraiths on horses made of mist.

They were seven facing three in the dream as it had been in life.--aGoT page 409

Again, this is reality based dreaming. This actually occurred,

"A small cup," Ned said. "my head is still heavy with milk of the poppy."---aGoT page 412.

I might mention, though, that Ned's account, which you refer to, was in the context of a dream... and a fever dream at that. Our dreams are not always literal. --GRRM

http://www.westeros....he_Tower_of_Joy

and the dialog is likely paraphrased in Ned's memory, because he is unable to get a lifelike image of his friends. He vividly remembers the three Kingsguard, though.

And these were no shadows their faces burned clear even now.---aGoT page 409

Notably this assertion is supportable

[BearQueen87]

Oh sweet 7....I take it back

I might mention, though, that Ned's account, which you refer to, was in the context of a dream... and a fever dream at that. Our dreams are not always literal.

It's the meaning behind the words. Geeeez