Michael Brown shooting and civil unrest Goes Forth

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I just happen to think it's wrong. To victimize a people unnecessarily is wrong.

[DanteGabriel]

To victimize a people unnecessarily is wrong.

Yes, America should stop doing that to its darker-skinned citizens.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Bigotry can come from anyone. Racism, depending on how it is defined is not so simple.

Bigotry runs rampant in most of these threads.. So some people can't be racist? Wow that's a bold statement

[Maithanet]

No I just believe that in any circumstance the facts should be evaluated before racist claims are made.

Well, this is the Michael Brown thread, so this is the place to discuss it. Do you feel that the Michael Brown case was not racially motivated? I feel that there is strong circumstantial evidence that both Officer Wilson's actions and the subsequent police handling of the case, along with the protests/riots that resulted all fit well with the narrative that race plays a huge factor.

Michael Brown was unarmed. Four different witnesses, (three of them with no connection to Brown whatsoever), have attested that Brown was fleeing officer Wilson when he was shot, at which point he stopped and raised his hands to surrender. According to these witness statements, Wilson shot and killed him. Wilson's did not file an official report of the incident, which is both illegal and very helpful for his defense in that it does not lock him into a specific story. The stance and description of the incident from the Ferguson PD has changed several times, but it mostly comes down to Wilson's word that Brown turned around and began charging him. This does not in any way match the eyewitness accounts, nor does it make a lot of sense that an unarmed man would charge at a police officer with his gun already drawn. So unless you find the witness statements of four people less convincing than that of a police officer who is looking at a murder charge, it is very difficult to swallow his story. And the shows of support for Darren Wilson seem to require some very selective reading of the facts of the case. The fact that so many people are willing to give Wilson the benefit of the doubt in spite of all evidence to the contrary fits will with a pattern of racial bias, and with the idea that a black man, even unarmed, is a lethal threat.

Other facts may come out which support Wilson's story. But the facts we have now look really bad. I have trouble coming up with a convincing reason why anyone would blindly support Wilson, save for racism.

Edit: grammer

[all swedes are racist]

Bigotry runs rampant in most of these threads.. So some people can't be racist? Wow that's a bold statement

Not so bold, considering that statement was never made...

[TerraPrime]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I just happen to think it's wrong. To victimize a people unnecessarily is wrong.

To deny the generational and cumnulative effects of past racism in today's society is what is re-victimizing African Americans and other ethnic minorities in this country. When a black person's grandparents' parents were not given equal opportunities for schooling or for jobs, when their grandparents were not allowed to marry outside of their races; when their parents had to live through the residual effects of racial segregation in the form of swimming pools and social clubs; when their family has been denied opportunities to accumulate wealth in ways that non-black families could; when their parents and grandparents had to live through the terrorism from racists in the forms of lynchings and burning crosses; when the income level of their neighborhood is depressed by white flight so that their school district suffered; when their name and their skin color still cause people to evaluate them more harshly and less favorably; when they are stopped by police for being of the wrong color of skin in the neighborhood or while driving; when these effects accumulate and multiply and lay on top of each other, to then say that racist actions of the bygone years should be seen as historical artifacts and not be used in consideration of today's situation is indeed a monumentally ignorant and deeply offensive worldview. This worldview is itself not racist, but it certainly enables racism to persist by trying to deny the reality of race issues here and now.

[Lord Flashheart]

Bigotry runs rampant in most of these threads.. So some people can't be racist? Wow that's a bold statement

I can see you clearly don't understand racism. It seems like you have a tenuous grasp on the English language in general.

[Suttree]

Oh, and welcome back, Borsabil.

Ah, that actually makes a ton of sense.

Our Revered Founding Fathers, who encoded slavery and the value of a black person as 3/5 that of a white person, into our nation's founding document.

The wealthy elites of the pre-Civil War South, who used violence and terror to subjugate the slaves who vastly outnumbered them, and formulated pernicious attitudes and myths about the inherent violence and worthlessness of black lives to justify their economic position.

And a whole lot more.

America has an Original Sin. It's still fucking over our society to this day. If you can't acknowledge the deck is stacked against black people because of America's historical crimes, I don't know what else there is to say.

He doesn't even know the history of civil disobedience in our country going back only fifty some years. You expect him to understand how the above still cascades down current society?

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Yes, America should stop doing that to its darker-skinned citizens.

But then one of our major political parties may lose most of their base, can't have that. But that's for a different thread

[TerraPrime]

But then one of our major political parties may lose most of their base, can't have that. But that's for a different thread

:lol:

Yeah, because that's what we *really* want - dominance of the Democratic party, above all else. That's totally the choice we'd make if we can opt between no more racial discrimination or success of the Democratic party. You got us.

:rofl:

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

:lol:

Yeah, because that's what we *really* want - dominance of the Democratic party, above all else. That's totally the choice we'd make if we can opt between no more racial discrimination or success of the Democratic party. You got us.

:rofl:

That wasn't my point. My point was that the democratic party is the one victimizing the black community. Got to secure those votes. But that's irrelevant to this thread

[Lord Flashheart]

That wasn't my point. My point was that the democratic party is the one victimizing the black community. Got to secure those votes. But that's irrelevant to this thread

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/101839-craziest-conspiracy-you-have-ever-heard-of/page-4#entry6306094

There's a thread for that.

[TerraPrime]

That wasn't my point. My point was that the democratic party is the one victimizing the black community. Got to secure those votes. But that's irrelevant to this thread

Well, sure, when you define "victimizing" as taking into consideration the historical effects of past racism and designing public policies to counteract those effects.

Also, it's a total cop-out to throw out that line and refuse to engage by saying "but that's for a different thread." If it is, then fucking drop it. If you keep bringing it up, then expect to be challenged on it.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Then please tell us your theory about why African-Americans experience greater levels of poverty, are more likely to be imprisoned, receive harsher sentences for the same crimes, have lower educational outcomes, are more likely to be unemployed, etc., since our theory for why we witness those outcomes is "racist".

This is actually a pretty racist post. There are many black Americans who are not African Americans first of all. There are also many black americans who make make a very good income, many that don't get into legal trouble, some that do don't get convicted, many that excel educationally, and many that have jobs. Not only that but have good jobs!

But I guess it's how you look at your situation. If, from birth, every one around you is telling you how you've been wronged and will always be wronged because of your race, what do you expect? If you are conditioned to believe that no matter what you do, you'll only be judged because of your skin color, how do you expect that person to think?

[Kalbear]

If, from birth, every one around you is telling you how you've been wronged and will always be wronged because of your race, what do you expect? If you are conditioned to believe that no matter what you do, you'll only be judged because of your skin color, how do you expect that person to think?

Yeah - Michael Brown got shot several times and killed because he thought he was a victim! It had nothing to do with a police officer being conditioned to believe that black males are a dangerous threat. It had nothing to do with black people in Ferguson being significantly more likely to be pulled over by a cop and searched than white people despite actual evidence indicating that black people are not any more likely to carry contraband than white people.

It's because Michael Brown thought he was a victim. And it was a totally self-fulfilling prophecy too!

[all swedes are racist]

This is actually a pretty racist post. There are many black Americans who are not African Americans first of all. There are also many black americans who make make a very good income, many that don't get into legal trouble, some that do don't get convicted, many that excel educationally, and many that have jobs. Not only that but have good jobs!

But I guess it's how you look at your situation. If, from birth, every one around you is telling you how you've been wronged and will always be wronged because of your race, what do you expect? If you are conditioned to believe that no matter what you do, you'll only be judged because of your skin color, how do you expect that person to think?

Nice of you to include that disclaimer right at the beginning there.

[MerenthaClone]

:lol:

[Swordfish]

The protesters are annoying fans with a pointless message. The fans chant Darren Wilson to annoy the protesters. That's not racist, that's two groups of people trying to get the best of one another. Keep trying if you'd like though, it's pretty amusing

It also pre-supposes that the only reason anyone would support wilson is because they are a racist.

Which is lazy, intellectually dishonest and dumb, but also quite typical of the way the accusations of racism get tossed around in these kinds of threads.

Pretty unfortunate really.....

[Summah]

tptwp, please go read some Coates or someone else like that before you talk about this subject again, your ignorance and obstinate refusal to understand the issues is extremely frustrating and personally I'm not going to engage with you on this issue unless you make a real attempt to educate yourself.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Yeah - Michael Brown got shot several times and killed because he thought he was a victim! It had nothing to do with a police officer being conditioned to believe that black males are a dangerous threat. It had nothing to do with black people in Ferguson being significantly more likely to be pulled over by a cop and searched than white people despite actual evidence indicating that black people are not any more likely to carry contraband than white people.

It's because Michael Brown thought he was a victim. And it was a totally self-fulfilling prophecy too!

Is that how you feel about all this? Wow, kind of weird but whatever.