Daenerys Stormborn - A Re-read Project Part VI: ADWD

[Kyoshi]

We have our own hashtag now? YES!

I'm taking it back from the haters. :-)

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Well, I don't think it's actually that important... After all, presumably whoever was responsible for the poisoning assumed there would be other opportunities.

I definitely continue to think Hizdahr was not behind the plot, simply because he seems to have no worries about Belwas eating the locusts, which would surely make it clear that there was a poisoning attempt. But the fact that he urges her to eat them tells me that he was at least somewhat aware of what was going on - even if he was only informed that Dany should eat them. Similarly, his sudden insistence that the Dornishmen were behind the poisoning seems to suggest that he isn't interested in the truth behind the poisoning attempt, indicating that he was either aware of the plot or assumed it was his allies.

If the plan was to poison Dany with the locusts, the poisoner was an idiot, she doesnt eat locusts. Thats the point I am making.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

If the plan was to poison Dany with the locusts, the poisoner was an idiot, she doesnt eat locusts. Thats the point I am making.

OTOH, saying "eat this delicious food we've exclusively made for you" sounds too suspicious.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

OTOH, saying "eat this delicious food we've exclusively made for you" sounds too suspicious.

Well I admit that the poisoner could easily be 'that' stupid, we are, after all, talking about the upper class slavers of Meereen.

[BearQueen87]

If the plan was to poison Dany with the locusts, the poisoner was an idiot, she doesnt eat locusts. Thats the point I am making.

The plan may not have been to poison Dany unto the point of death. If that was the plan, then yeah...stupid. Put the poison into figs if you want to kill her. But by putting it into the locusts you're more likely to just make Dany sick given that she'll only sample them--two at the most. So if that's the case then the question becomes why only poison but not kill Dany?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

The plan may not have been to poison Dany unto the point of death. If that was the plan, then yeah...stupid. Put the poison into figs if you want to kill her. But by putting it into the locusts you're more likely to just make Dany sick given that she'll only sample them--two at the most. So if that's the case then the question becomes why only poison but not kill Dany?

Oh I agree if they were put there for her it was to cause the miscarriage, that makes the most sense.

But yeah these people are idiots.

[PatrickStormborn]

If the plan was to poison Dany with the locusts, the poisoner was an idiot, she doesnt eat locusts. Thats the point I am making.

Yeah, I get that. But I don't think it's necessarily idiotic. I'd imagine they chose something Dany didn't typically like because they didn't want her to eat too many; it's likely that she was only ever meant to eat one or two - just enough to force a miscarriage without causing any noticeable symptoms at Daznak's Pit. If Dany didn't eat them, then they could just try again another time.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Remember that they got interrupted by Drogon. Maybe they were having more food prepared and ready for Dany to taste.

[BearQueen87]

Yeah, I get that. But I don't think it's necessarily idiotic. I'd imagine they chose something Dany didn't typically like because they didn't want her to eat too many; it's likely that she was only ever meant to eat one or two - just enough to force a miscarriage without causing any noticeable symptoms at Daznak's Pit. If Dany didn't eat them, then they could just try again another time.

I agree. They would keep trying, and possibly harder given that soon Dany would start to show and for anyone who thought about it (and not even that hard) it would be pretty easy to realize that Hizzy isn't the father of her baby.

[Fire Eater]

And are any of those people in VD? A vast majority went with the other Khals when Drogo fell. The others stayed with Dany and are either dead from the Red Waste or in Meereen.

Also, would they really not have said anything? At least gone to someone to let them know that Viserys was bleeding and that it could cause trouble?

Many of those people went with Jhaqo. If they said anything without going to Drogo first, they would risk Drogo's wrath, and none of them seemed to view Viserys in high esteem.

Because it's an unbelievably traumatic experience. And she rejects that it's moonsblood. She realizes that she hasn't had her period in three months and then starts to think about the last time she had sex with Daario and then starts to mourn the fact that she won't ever have children. But she can't stop and think on this, she has to keep walking. Like I said, she's pushing the trauma to the back of her mind in order to keep moving.

I'm going to assume you mean Drogon. But she's got the runs, and it's getting worse. She's also dehydrated, drinking dirty water, and under fed. She's not the specimen of health by the end of that last chapter.

Maybe she does know deep inside.

Getting worse? Funny she doesn't mention it by the time she mounts Drogon. The berries probably passed through her system.

So every character is always going to keep getting themselves into worse situations? When do they stop getting themselves into worse ones? At what point is enough, enough and they start to climb back up? I'd saying having to chain yourself in a loveless marriage arranged by people who hate you and want you out of their city, who are killing your people, and then having to walk hundreds of miles while you are sick, having a miscarriage, and hallucinating is going from bad to worse. Why must it now go from worse to even worse? The end of ADWD when Dany isn't running scared but is waiting for the rider is her choosing her fate and what to do next. Will VD be hard and have trials? YES. I've never said otherwise, but I don't think she's walking into something that is "worse" than what she went through for all of ADWD. And, here's a question...worse by who's standards, yours or Dany's?

Dany has been riding Drogon many times since the pit. Once she chose him, he chose her. He might not be a fully trained dragon but she's flying him with just a whip and their connection. I'd say that's good enough.

Yes, GRRM himself said things need to get worse before they get better. GRRM puts his characters in worse situations it's a pattern that repeats itself throughout the characters' arcs. Dany getting her life threatened would be worse for her.

She left him, and he didn't follow her. It was by chance he came upon her when he was going along a regular hunting path by the looks of burn spots in the grass.

I agree, but since Dany chose him, it's moot. She chose her dragon and her dragon chose her. He's not going to up and leave her in her time of need. He was drawn to the city of Meereen due to her stress and fears, he came to the Pit because of a mix of the food, the noise, and her growing anxiety. They are tied.

He left her in Meereen, and where is it stated that he stress and gears drew him to the city? When he comes to Meereen to Daznak's pit why doesn't he fly to Dany if that's the case, that he came for her? He doesn't even pay any attention to her until she runs up to him. The first thing he does when he arrives is start eating. He probably returned, because food may have been growing scarce near the cave and he found himself having to fly farther away to find food.

I don't for one minute believe Drogon would have flown away without Dany in Daznak's Pit. He arrived to take her away, and he would not have fled - a dragon's instinct is to attack, not flee.

Like he never flew away without Dany from Meereen before? The hole in your theory that hec ame to take her away is as I have mentioned is that if he came for her, why didn't go to her when he arrived in Daznak's pit? He didn't pay any attention to her until after she came up to him. He started eating when he frist came, and likely came for simple survival reasons, namely food.

Sorry to be blunt, but you totally misunderstood my post. I have stated multiple times that I don't believe she will ever return to Meereen, and you surely know that I am one of the biggest supporters of Dany being declared the StMtW (in fact, I'm probably pushing for it most on this forum).

As I've said, if Dany learns that Meereen is destroyed, she will be at a low point without having to be forced to return to Vaes Dothrak without Drogon, which would surely see her being abused by Jhaqo and/or Mago.

There are a lot of indications that Drogon won't leave Dany this time, but I don't think you're going to change your mind so I'm not wasting my time.

Never return to Meereen? You're saying she would abandon her other two children, army and freinds even though she plans to go to Westeros. That is too dumb a politcal and military move even for Dany. Meereen isn't destroyed if anything the TWoW spoilers point the opposite.

[BearQueen87]

Many of those people went with Jhaqo. If they said anything without going to Drogo first, they would risk Drogo's wrath, and none of them seemed to view Viserys in high esteem.

So when Dany is taken to VD these people who now ride with Jhago will speak up and say that Viserys was bleeding at some point when Dany was last in VD. What evidence do they have that Dany did it? There were other people in her tent, like her haindmaids. So all we have is Viserys with a cut, which no one reported because, like you said, he's not held in high esteem. I'm not saying that the VD "legal system" isn't corrupt (meaning that they don't believe in innocent until proven guilty) but all of this just seems stretchy at this point. The blood magic she used to save Drogo--yes, that one makes more sense. But a cut on her dead brother's cheek that no one saw Dany give? Eh. There's enough with the blood magic.

Getting worse? Funny she doesn't mention it by the time she mounts Drogon. The berries probably passed through her system

Even if that's true Dany is still dehydrated and malnourished and hallucinating. Not to mention the fact that she's just suffered a bloody miscarriage. She's not exactly running on all cylinders here.

Yes, GRRM himself said things need to get worse before they get better. GRRM puts his characters in worse situations it's a pattern that repeats itself throughout the characters' arcs. Dany getting her life threatened would be worse for her.

But they did get worse. You don't think the final chapter is "worse" given all that she's going through? Why must it still get worse? Why can't it get better or at least plateau? Why does VD have to be worse than Meereen/Dothraki Sea?

He left her in Meereen, and where is it stated that he stress and gears drew him to the city? When he comes to Meereen to Daznak's pit why doesn't he fly to Dany if that's the case, that he came for her? He doesn't even pay any attention to her until she runs up to him. The first thing he does when he arrives is start eating. He probably returned, because food may have been growing scarce near the cave and he found himself having to fly farther away to find food.

Drogon and Dany are clearly emotionally bonded and feel things together. They scream as one in the pit. For Drogon to enter the scene when he did he had to be pretty near to the pit/city. He is a smart dragon but he did not know that there would be free food when he took off from Dragonstone to go to Meereen. I believe he was brought back to Meereen by Dany's growing anxiety which we know is getting worse. He is drawn to the pit because of the noise (and Dany's growing anxiety). Once he lands, I choose to read the rest of the chapter symbolically. Dany must choose HIM first. He's not going to go to her until she makes her choice about if she's a dragon or not. And if his food is growing scarce why return to the big city? There are other places, cities, sites, livestock that do not involve going into Meereen.

[Parwan]

Yeah, I get that. But I don't think it's necessarily idiotic. I'd imagine they chose something Dany didn't typically like because they didn't want her to eat too many; it's likely that she was only ever meant to eat one or two - just enough to force a miscarriage without causing any noticeable symptoms at Daznak's Pit. If Dany didn't eat them, then they could just try again another time.

I still hold to the opinion I presented in the other thread. This whole thing should be considered part of amateur hour--both the crime and the "investigation" (if you care to use the latter term). The crime was not like something that would be done by a professional hit man. It was more like a home-made explosive device tossed into a crowd. The gods alone could know what the effect would be. Surely, no one would have expected that only one person would eat the locusts. I can't believe that the poisoner acquainted himself or herself with the eating habits and physiological reactions (allergies, etc.) of everyone in the royal booth. What would have happened if Barristan had become very ill? How would the queen have reacted to the poisoning of the captain of her Queensguard? That's just one of many possibilities.

Let's take the idea of trying to cause a miscarriage. That appears to be the most popular theory on this thread. If you want to shoot someone, then attempt to shoot that someone. Don't throw a bomb in her general direction. if you want to poison someone, then serve the poison to her. Meereen is an old established civilization. Couldn't someone there slip something into Dany's drink? The people in Westeros aren't entirely brilliant either, but at least they can figure out how to poison wine.

[BearQueen87]

Let's take the idea of trying to cause a miscarriage. That appears to be the most popular theory on this thread. If you want to shoot someone, then attempt to shoot that someone. Don't throw a bomb in her general direction. if you want to poison someone, then serve the poison to her. Meereen is an old established civilization. Couldn't someone there slip something into Dany's drink? The people in Westeros aren't entirely brilliant either, but at least they can figure out how to poison wine.

If the poisoners slip something into her wine, don't they run the risk of Dany drinking too much and causing more than just a miscarriage? It's the same reason they don't poison the figs--Dany's likely to eat those and in greater quantity.

I think you're right that it's a bit amateur hour but I think it's also arrogance. At this point, Dany has caved to all the Harpy's demands (even if she doesn't realize that is what she is doing): the marriage, the pits, Yunkai'i inside the pyramid, the slave market being reopened. Why wouldn't Dany eat at least one locust to prove she's the Queen of Meereen? She's put on her floppy ears and seems less Dragon Queen and more Harpy at this point.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I'm just going to play with this idea, not sure how much I'm buying into what I'm saying.

But if the Sons and the Harpy wanted to reduce the risk of Dany dying, but still need to get rid of Daario's baby, then the locusts are actually the way to go. Dany doesn't like them, but given the amount she's given over in terms of power, she's more likely to sample half a locust, one locust..but not enough to kill her. If they wanted to kill Dany, they'd have put the poison in the figs which Dany would have eaten more readily and a greater quantity of.

The final point you make is a good one, though would she suspect the Harpy of inducing a miscarriage? She already thinks she can't have children so having a miscarriage might be confirmation in her mind that she can never carry a child to term, not necessarily anything conspiratorial.

So the game plan is to get rid of Daario's baby but maintain Dany as Dragon Figure Head of Meereen while Hizzy and the GG are the real power, slowly stripping Dany of any real say in her city.

Someone in the MB thread made a really good point that Hizzy says that the locusts "are" tasty--meaning he's had them before but he won't partake of them now. So that suggests Hizzy was in on it, whatever the motivation.

That scenario is possible but it takes a lot of leap of faiths, as Parwan stated, I think if this was an attempt to cause a miscarriage it was an amateur attempt by the person behind it. I also think an attempt for a miscarriage would be suited behind closed doors rather than at a major event like this, so if any thing goes wrong it isn't a big deal in Meereen.

I still hold to the opinion I presented in the other thread. This whole thing should be considered part of amateur hour--both the crime and the "investigation" (if you care to use the latter term). The crime was not like something that would be done by a professional hit man. It was more like a home-made explosive device tossed into a crowd. The gods alone could know what the effect would be. Surely, no one would have expected that only one person would eat the locusts. I can't believe that the poisoner acquainted himself or herself with the eating habits and physiological reactions (allergies, etc.) of everyone in the royal booth. What would have happened if Barristan had become very ill? How would the queen have reacted to the poisoning of the captain of her Queensguard? That's just one of many possibilities.

Let's take the idea of trying to cause a miscarriage. That appears to be the most popular theory on this thread. If you want to shoot someone, then attempt to shoot that someone. Don't throw a bomb in her general direction. if you want to poison someone, then serve the poison to her. Meereen is an old established civilization. Couldn't someone there slip something into Dany's drink? The people in Westeros aren't entirely brilliant either, but at least they can figure out how to poison wine.

I was actually going to talk about civilization, considering Ghiscar is one of the oldest civilizations in Planetos, I'm assuming they would have a harmless abortifactant, since Westeros ,a far younger civilization has moon tea. And even if they didn't I'm sure they would learn about it considering MMD uses milk of the poppy which is also commonly used in Westeros.

Slipping moon tea in every drink she drinks would be far more safer, smarter and reliable, if their intention was to cause a miscarriage.

[PatrickStormborn]

Like he never flew away without Dany from Meereen before? The hole in your theory that hec ame to take her away is as I have mentioned is that if he came for her, why didn't go to her when he arrived in Daznak's pit? He didn't pay any attention to her until after she came up to him. He started eating when he frist came, and likely came for simple survival reasons, namely food.

Never return to Meereen? You're saying she would abandon her other two children, army and freinds even though she plans to go to Westeros. That is too dumb a politcal and military move even for Dany. Meereen isn't destroyed if anything the TWoW spoilers point the opposite.

I'm sorry, but arguing with you is SO frustrating because you seem totally incapable of actually understanding anything I'm writing. There is absolutely no point discussing anything on this forum if you simply draw conclusions and refuse to accept any other view even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against you.

Your argument that Drogon flew hundreds of miles to Meereen because he needed food isn't even an argument, because it has absolutely no logic. Drogon is at the top of the food chain; if he needed food, he would not have flown HUNDREDS OF MILES and wasted all the energy that he needs food for. Don't be absurd.

Why did Drogon not go straight to Dany? There are a number of guesses we can make. Mine would be that he was drawn almost subconsciously back to Daenerys; neither of them know what's going on, but instincts pull them together. This is a fantasy series. Shit happens.

It wouldn't be correct to say that Drogon fled from Dany when she got her soldiers to try and capture him. In fact, the opposite; he attacks. He just continues hunting beyond the Shahazadan, but because Dany has turned against him he just never returns. But most importantly, he doesn't flee when under attack. Dragons don't flee.

I've explained why I don't believe Dany will return to Meereen. If you disagree, it's time to stop arguing about it, because it's going nowhere. Yes, the sample chapters CURRENTLY point towards a positive end for Barristan et al, but GRRM is clearly not going to make it that simple. When dragonbinder is sounded, things are gonna get crazy. I do not believe for one second that GRRM intended to end ADwD with a huge battle that concludes with Victarion, Tyrion, Barristan etc. sitting around in Meereen waiting for Dany to go to Vaes Dothrak and back. No way. The dragons and her army are going without her, and she's going to have to get them back.

[Fire Eater]

So when Dany is taken to VD these people who now ride with Jhago will speak up and say that Viserys was bleeding at some point when Dany was last in VD. What evidence do they have that Dany did it? There were other people in her tent, like her haindmaids. So all we have is Viserys with a cut, which no one reported because, like you said, he's not held in high esteem. I'm not saying that the VD "legal system" isn't corrupt (meaning that they don't believe in innocent until proven guilty) but all of this just seems stretchy at this point. The blood magic she used to save Drogo--yes, that one makes more sense. But a cut on her dead brother's cheek that no one saw Dany give? Eh. There's enough with the blood magic.

I can't tell you specifics, but it would be mentioned. They have eyewitness accounts of Viserys's cut, and that he had it after he visited Dany. Dany herself said there is no privacy in a khalasar. Drogo was alive when they would have seen it while Drogo is dead so they have no reason to keep it hidden.

Even if that's true Dany is still dehydrated and malnourished and hallucinating. Not to mention the fact that she's just suffered a bloody miscarriage. She's not exactly running on all cylinders here.

But they did get worse. You don't think the final chapter is "worse" given all that she's going through? Why must it still get worse? Why can't it get better or at least plateau? Why does VD have to be worse than Meereen/Dothraki Sea?

She isn't mentioned as having nausea anymore.

It is bad, but Davos was sick as well when he left the spears of the Merling King, and he was still imprisoned.

Drogon and Dany are clearly emotionally bonded and feel things together. They scream as one in the pit. For Drogon to enter the scene when he did he had to be pretty near to the pit/city. He is a smart dragon but he did not know that there would be free food when he took off from Dragonstone to go to Meereen. I believe he was brought back to Meereen by Dany's growing anxiety which we know is getting worse. He is drawn to the pit because of the noise (and Dany's growing anxiety). Once he lands, I choose to read the rest of the chapter symbolically. Dany must choose HIM first. He's not going to go to her until she makes her choice about if she's a dragon or not. And if his food is growing scarce why return to the big city? There are other places, cities, sites, livestock that do not involve going into Meereen.

Dany screamed because she saw Drogon stabbed while Drogon screamed from the pain. He knew there was food in Meereen, he never lacked for food there. He doesn't go to Dany when he comes to Meereen, but starts eating. I doubt Drogon came to give Dany a chance to choose him given he didn't pay any attention to her, and striked at her when she came near.

I'm sorry, but arguing with you is SO frustrating because you seem totally incapable of actually understanding anything I'm writing. There is absolutely no point discussing anything on this forum if you simply draw conclusions and refuse to accept any other view even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against you.

Your argument that Drogon flew hundreds of miles to Meereen because he needed food isn't even an argument, because it has absolutely no logic. Drogon is at the top of the food chain; if he needed food, he would not have flown HUNDREDS OF MILES and wasted all the energy that he needs food for. Don't be absurd.

I have accepted other arguments if you paid attention. Unless you looked at my entire posting history, I doubt you can make that judgement accurately. To be fair, I think I have yet to see you accept one of my views. You call me frustrating even when you labelled anyone who supported one of my theories as sexist or sexist-influenced, nor called any of you arguments "absurd". :laugh:

He wouldn't be stopping in Meereen just for a quick stop, but to stay there. He would rest someplace there after eating.

Why did Drogon not go straight to Dany? There are a number of guesses we can make. Mine would be that he was drawn almost subconsciously back to Daenerys; neither of them know what's going on, but instincts pull them together. This is a fantasy series. Shit happens.

It wouldn't be correct to say that Drogon fled from Dany when she got her soldiers to try and capture him. In fact, the opposite; he attacks. He just continues hunting beyond the Shahazadan, but because Dany has turned against him he just never returns. But most importantly, he doesn't flee when under attack. Dragons don't flee.

I think instincts might be an argument. I still think running out of food is a factor.

How did Drogon know they tried to take him, because Dany ordered them? Humans for the most part look the same to dragons as demonstrated in TPatQ. He fled the pyrmaid when he was threatened, twice.

[BearQueen87]

I can't tell you specifics, but it would be mentioned. They have eyewitness accounts of Viserys's cut, and that he had it after he visited Dany. Dany herself said there is no privacy in a khalasar. Drogo was alive when they would have seen it while Drogo is dead so they have no reason to keep it hidden.

We do not know if they have eyewitness accounts. For all we know, Viserys left the tent walked a very short distance back to his tent without anyone seeing it. Had someone seen the blood on this face, the Dothraki (for whom this is a VERY big deal) would have made a commotion. Whispers, gasps, chit chat, chatter, ect. Something to indicate that one of their sacred laws had just been broke. But let's say someone did see Viserys' blood, they did not see who inflicted it. It was done inside the tent and no one except Dany's handmaids saw her do it. And one of them is dead, and the other are in Meereen.

She isn't mentioned as having nausea anymore.

And...?

She is still dehydrated, underfed, walking in the hot sun, hallucinating, and has just suffered a blood miscarriage. Her not having nausea=/= her not being sick or ill.

It is bad, but Davos was sick as well when he left the spears of the Merling King, and he was still imprisoned.

Davos isn't Dany. Davos was sick, but Dany has fled her city, two of her children, her friends, her husband, her lover, and her cause. She is sick, had a miscarriage, is trying to figure out her next moves all while having hallucinations of her dead brother who reflects her subconscious and calls herself a whore who killed him. And she has just come upon men who pretty much hate her passionately and would gladly rape and torture her. Her situation is much worse than Davos'.

Dany screamed because she saw Drogon stabbed while Drogon screamed from the pain. He knew there was food in Meereen, he never lacked for food there. He doesn't go to Dany when he comes to Meereen, but starts eating. I doubt Drogon came to give Dany a chance to choose him given he didn't pay any attention to her, and striked at her when she came near.

We are never, in a million years, going to agree here. So let's just agree to disagree and revisit in Winds.

[Fire Eater]

We do not know if they have eyewitness accounts. For all we know, Viserys left the tent walked a very short distance back to his tent without anyone seeing it. Had someone seen the blood on this face, the Dothraki (for whom this is a VERY big deal) would have made a commotion. Whispers, gasps, chit chat, chatter, ect. Something to indicate that one of their sacred laws had just been broke. But let's say someone did see Viserys' blood, they did not see who inflicted it. It was done inside the tent and no one except Dany's handmaids saw her do it. And one of them is dead, and the other are in Meereen.

If there is no privacy in a khalasar someone would have seen him come out of Dany's tent. Then that piece of gossip would have spread, especially after Drogo's death.

And...?

She is still dehydrated, underfed, walking in the hot sun, hallucinating, and has just suffered a blood miscarriage. Her not having nausea=/= her not being sick or ill.

I think the implication is that the illness has for the most part passed her system. She was still suffering some visions I'll grant you.

Davos isn't Dany. Davos was sick, but Dany has fled her city, two of her children, her friends, her husband, her lover, and her cause. She is sick, had a miscarriage, is trying to figure out her next moves all while having hallucinations of her dead brother who reflects her subconscious and calls herself a whore who killed him. And she has just come upon men who pretty much hate her passionately and would gladly rape and torture her. Her situation is much worse than Davos'.

Davos suffered more than Dany, he lost a battle, his four eldest sons and his ship and crew in one day. Dany's people are still for the most part alive, and she still has control over the city. Davos had hallucinations as well with the Mother supposedly talking to him, and was starving, cold and struggling to survive.

We are never, in a million years, going to agree here. So let's just agree to disagree and revisit in Winds.

TWoW can't come soon enough :laugh:

I guess someone has to play devil's advocate at times.

[BearQueen87]

If there is no privacy in a khalasar someone would have seen him come out of Dany's tent. Then that piece of gossip would have spread, especially after Drogo's death.

See I actually agree with you here. If someone had seen Viserys, word would have spread. And something would have been done because Drogo may be a fearsome Khal but even the most fearsome Khal among the Dothraki respects the VD rules. When Viserys draws his blade later in VD, Drogo does what he must according to the law. So had someone (anyone) seen Viserys with that cut, bleeding, after leaving Dany's tent and talk began to spread, the Dothraki would have questioned Viserys, questioned Dany's maids, investigated the whole shebang because of their laws. But they didn't. So either, people saw the bleeding Targaryen prince but didn't say anything OR nobody saw Viserys.

Honestly think this is a big case of Dany getting very very lucky.

I think the implication is that the illness has for the most part passed her system. She was still suffering some visions I'll grant you.

How are we defining illness? Because even if the illness that is causing her nausea and sour stomach have passed she is still ill in the sense that she has little water, no food, is in the hot sun, and just had a miscarriage. I feel like I can't emphasize that last one enough. The body needs a lot of time to heal after that trauma and Dany keeps walking (while drinking bad water and not having enough food and walking in the super hot sun).

Davos suffered more than Dany, he lost a battle, his four eldest sons and his ship and crew in one day. Dany's people are still for the most part alive, and she still has control over the city. Davos had hallucinations as well with the Mother supposedly talking to him, and was starving, cold and struggling to survive.

Ehhhh. Okay. I am not trying to take away Davos' losses. He suffered greatly. I take issue with trying to rank people's loss and their own suffering because suffering should only be judged on how the person who is going through it feels. Your experiences in life (whatever they may be) are not worse than mine, they are different but because they affected you, you are inclined to feel that they have a greater magnitude of "badness" or "being worse." All of the thing you list that Davos lost, he (and his men) chose; they all went into battle knowing that they might die, but they did it freely because they believed in Stannis. Davos manages to get back on his feet. He still has the respect of his king. He's made the Hand. His king ends up listening to him and placing trust in him to carry out his words and deeds.

Dany did not chose to lose her baby, and the baby certainly did not chose to die. Dany did not chose to have the Harpy retaliate and be unwilling to let her rule peacefully.

Dany, as we see her at the end, has almost no true friends outside of an old knight and a 12 (11?) year old girl and some hand maids. Her people are split down the middle over her vs Hizzy and are about to go to war-- a bloody all out war that is beginning with biological warfare (the bodies over the walls) and will end in dragon fire. Dany does not have control over the city, she's not even in the city. Her husband, the right hand of the Harpy who has been ordering the death of her people, has control and that is somewhat wrestled away by Barry but Meereen isn't exactly a happy go lucky place at the end of Dance.

My point is trying to rank who's experiences are "worse" in ASOIAF is really subjective and can be argued probably until the end of time. But Dany and Davos have both suffered greatly and I still think Dany's hit her low and that her going to VD is a start of her very slow climb back to being Daenerys Targaryen.

[SeanF]

I'm sure Viserys would have been far too embarrassed to admit to being hit by his sister, which was an instinctive act of self defence, in any case. Nor did she draw any kind of blade on him, which I consider to be the crucial point of the law. It's like the rule (on a much larger scale) that you leave your blade with the gate-keeper, before going into a lord's hall for a feast. It ensures that if lots of men get drunk together, and some start quarrelling, they can't draw steel on each other.

By way of comparison, consider the seller of poisoned wine. Suppose he'd cut himself, when being tripped by the whip. I doubt if that would be considered a breach of the law. Nor, when Dany drags him behind her horse, slowly flaying him.