Will Arya be sent to kill Sansa?

[Annara Snow]

Thanks for the smiley.

BTW, why do you think Sansa hasn't ask Petyr about Jeyne Pool? (I'm just asking?)

Why don't you tell me? I'm guessing you have a great answer.

[Robb_Warged]

I don't pay too much attention to Arya fan-speculation so I don't know what the general belief for her arc will be

I'm hoping she actually doesn't lose herself in this current quest she's on to become a FM. I'd like to think if she were sent to kill Sansa or someone close to her (I know, I know, she isn't close to anyone anymore) she would refuse the order or accept it but not totally complete it (Like she she found a way to keep Sting when she was supposed to get rid of all of 'Arya's stuff')

[Wmarshal]

From her mercy chapter, it looks like she is running.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Why don't you tell me? I'm guessing you have a great answer.

I'm not really sure. It seems to me she should have thought to ask about her dearest childhood friend by now. She was predent when Petyr offered to take her away. But as Sansa herself notes, of course, Jeyne was only a steward's daughter, after all, so far beneath Sansa's station. Now that's just the way I read it. Believe it or not I'd be interested in hearing your opinion.

[Cat of the Rivers]

I'm not really sure. It seems to me she should have thought to ask about her dearest childhood friend by now. She was predent when Petyr offered to take her away. But as Sansa herself notes, of course, Jeyne was only a steward's daughter, after all, so far beneath Sansa's station. Now that's just the way I read it. Believe it or not I'd be interested in hearing your opinion.

Sansa actually sings for Jeyne in the sept before the Battle of Blackwater. After that she tries not to think about her old life, fearing that she'll have a mental breakdown. And her mind is a bit preoccupied right now seeing how she's responsible for a eight year old boy with epileptic seizures, a marriage proposal she doesn't want, a "father" who molests her and her only lifeline and she's currently hiding from accusations of regicide from a mad queen who hates her guts. And BTW the reason she thinks that Jeyne's only a steward's daughter is when Jeyne's having fantasies about marrying Beric Dondarrion and Sansa just notes mentally how unrealistic the prospect is.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Sansa actually sings for Jeyne in the sept before the Battle of Blackwater. After that she tries not to think about her old life, fearing that she'll have a mental breakdown. And her mind is a bit preoccupied right now seeing how she's responsible for a eight year old boy with epileptic seizures, a marriage proposal she doesn't want, a "father" who molests her and her only lifeline and she's currently hiding from accusations of regicide from a mad queen who hates her guts. And BTW the reason she thinks that Jeyne's only a steward's daughter is when Jeyne's having fantasies about marrying Beric Dondarrion and Sansa just notes mentally how unrealistic the prospect is.

All good points. The George has dealt her a nearly impossible hand. Rooting for her and Arya was the most compelling aspect of reading Storm the first couple of times.

[Annara Snow]

I'm not really sure. It seems to me she should have thought to ask about her dearest childhood friend by now. She was predent when Petyr offered to take her away. But as Sansa herself notes, of course, Jeyne was only a steward's daughter, after all, so far beneath Sansa's station. Now that's just the way I read it. Believe it or not I'd be interested in hearing your opinion.

How do you know that she hasn't asked him? It's not like we saw every conversation they ever had since she saw him on the boat. Characters in the books have a ton of conversations that we don't see because they aren't important and contain no new info.

My opinion is that she asked him at some point and he naturally said some bullshit, like, oh, she became a ward of family X or was employed as a maid of some minor lady Y. It's not like Sansa could check any of it. Unless you think Littlefinger got bitten by the truth bug so he would tell her: "Oh, your friend. I made her a sex slave in one of my brothels."

It is simply irrelevant to the story at hand, so GRRM saw no reason to include any such conversation, just like, for instance, we never saw the exact moment Sansa learned about Bran and Rickon's "deaths", we just learned in ASOS that she had already known for some time. It seems to me you believe she never asked LF about Jeyne because you want to believe it.

[Elessar]

No, but she'll kill Ilyn Payne as Nymeria and then Cersei with her own hands, proving that Arya is the valonqar.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Hmm... this could be a foreshadowing...

She scooped up a handful of snow and squeezed it between her fingers. Heavy and wet, the snow packed easily. Sansa began to make snowballs, shaping and smoothing them until they were round and white and perfect. She remembered a summer's snow in Winterfell when Arya and Bran had ambushed her as she emerged from the keep one morning. They'd each had a dozen snowballsto hand, and she'd had none. Bran had been perched on the roof of the covered bridge, out of reach, but Sansa had chased Arya through the stables and around the kitchen until both of them were breathless. She might even have caught her, but she'd slipped on some ice. Her sister came back to see if she was hurt. When she said she wasn't, Arya hit her in the face with another snowball, but Sansa grabbed her leg and pulled her down and was rubbing snow in her hair when Jory came along and pulled them apart, laughing.

Sansa VII, Storm

[Pod The Impaler]

Arya had to follow the insurance man but as I said do you think the KM didn't already know exactly who it was she was following? Do you think he didn't know more than she did? A little 11 year old vs. a seasoned grown man? He didn't confirm what she asked about the insurance man but I'm sure he knew. She is only an acolyte. She's not even a FM. She's a child and she's not the one in charge. She doesn't even know how many FM there are or the ins and out of the chain of their command. Just because she's in the dark doesn't mean he is. He keeps her on a need to know basis.

ETA: Arya following him was probably more so a learning experience for her and a test. He wanted to see if she would reach the right conclusions and was testing her observation skills. He would have to already know the target to test how well she's doing in her training. When talking about the insurance man the KM knew details about the insurance man. The way he works and his business.

It's the way a professional organization would work. Let's say IRL someone is sent to close a deal. The boss would already know who or what they're dealing with and would send the right person who could get the job done. Who could get those in question to respond well and achieve what is wanted. Sure the one sent would have to prep themselves but that doesn't mean the boss who gave them the assignment didn't already know.

No doubt the assignment was someone they would have killed anyway, but Arya was assigned to it as a test.

They know she has talent, perhaps immense potential talent. Arya has passed every test set for her in terms of skill - being intelligent, tough, resourceful, and adaptive. She clearly is also very dangerous even as a child. But what they also are teaching her is the way of clandestine operations - successful lying and detection of lying; basic disguise and assumption of cover identities; specific forms of observation and logic.

With all that training directly by them, they also set out certain tests to see how a recruit can apply that training by operating autonomously. There is a certain amounf of Darwinism in their process; recruits can fail they might give up, or refuse to obey, or even die.

Arya comes to them, and they give her some knowledge of Braavosi and some basic duties. Then they put her out on the streets selling fish to see if she can pretend to be a simple fishmonger, young and vulnerable in her new surroundings. Not only that, but they also tell her they want her to find out 3 new things to tell them each night. She must learn the value of information - not just how to acquire it, but how to distinguish what is useful or not. Arya goes a certain distance with that life, and then (perhaps as punishment, perhaps as training, perhaps both) they make her blind. Now she has to adapt again, minus perhaps the most important sense a person has, and even more vulnerable than before. After she passes another milestone (indentifying the Kindly Man without sight), they deem her ready for the next test.

So, now she is for the first time given another person's face. She is told of a mark to be killed - they choose a local, but they do not help her kill him. She must observe him, she must plan her attack, she must kill him, all without them helping. They provide clarification if asked, and resources once she has decided on the means, but the success or failure of the hit is entirely hers.

KIlling the merchant was something that would have been relatively easy for one of their full members. It might even have been relatively easy for Arya Stark, if she took the direct route. But the real issue was whether she could work with the conditions imposed: killing only her mark; not being noticed at all; killing for utterly impersonal reasons.

Of course the FM know more than they let on. It is a real hit, but close enough for them to monitor her, and see how ready she is to take on the sort of autonomous actions that operatives like Jaqen H'Ghar are engaged in.

Arya Stark may be making better progress than any recruit they've yet seen, but no doubt they still have some doubts - not about her skill, but perhaps her objectivity.

But haven't you noticed how the KM knows things he couldn't know without outside help, for example he knew that Arya was Arya of house Stark before she told him, im wondering if the faceless men have there own version of Melisandres fires, the obsidian candle or the weirwoods to see into the future, past and many miles away

I would not be at all surprised if they did.

It hasn't come up at King's Landing yet. True, they have Qyburn as master of whispers instead of Varys, but Alayne's existence should be common background data by now.

The thing is, Varys would know whether someone like Littlefinger has a bastard child somewhere in the realm. (Really, especially for a man like Littlefinger.)

The sudden appearance of "Alayne" would not fool Varys, even if he was not already quite familiar with Sansa's face (which he is).

However, Qyburn is not in the same league as Varys as a spy. He knows the basics, but he is still not that familiar with the major game-players in the realm. The man spent years as a maester of sorts, and as medic for a gang of marauders. Does Qyburn know anything about Lord Baelish, other than the fact he was a shify fellow of semi-low birth whom people like Cersei disdained? Did he ever know much about Sansa Stark ? Both were gone before he got to King's Landing. So if semi-important Littlefinger has some bastard child he uses as a housekeeper, would he even think it significant ?

I get the feeling that Qyburn currently gets only as much information as Varys wants him to have.

Think about it: after the assassination of Joffrey, and the disappearance of Sansa Stark, who is wanted for regicide because she's exactly the person who want that fucker dead, just at that moment Petyr Baelish shows up at the doorstep of Sansa's last known living relative, with a beautiful daughter nobody's heard of before who's about Sansa's age, with hair that almost certainly look dyed. And then that aunt dies.

Everybody in the Vale and their grandmother knows that "Alayne" is Sansa.

It is suspicious within the Vale, but Petyr's betrothal was arranged before Joffrey died, and as far as anyone knew, he was in the Vale already when that happenned. The Fingers are an obscure place, even for the Vale, so whether he was or was not there at the time would be impossible to confirm unless someone had been there to say otherwise.

Still, yes, I imagine that some in the Vale are suspicious of Petyr and "Alayne". But what would they believe about that: A) Lord Baelish, who has been staunchly pro-Lannister during the war, is hiding Joffrey's killer from the crown? or B ) Littlefinger the known pimp has brought some pretty & charming young thing from one of his brothels to "serve" only him as his "daughter". Their mind would go to the gutter first, because that is what they expect of Littlefinger. (Once again, Littlefinger's best defense is the way he manages peoples' low expectations of him)

As some point out Bronze Yohn was suspicious because he'd met her years before, or perhaps seen her more recently at a long distance. He could be the only one who might think she's someone more important than she seems, instead of less. Nobody who has spent significant time with Sansa recently (from AGOT onwards) would be fooled by the disguise at all. But none of those people are in the Vale.

[juanml82]

The thing is, Varys would know whether someone like Littlefinger has a bastard child somewhere in the realm. (Really, especially for a man like Littlefinger.)

The sudden appearance of "Alayne" would not fool Varys, even if he was not already quite familiar with Sansa's face (which he is).

However, Qyburn is not in the same league as Varys as a spy. He knows the basics, but he is still not that familiar with the major game-players in the realm. The man spent years as a maester of sorts, and as medic for a gang of marauders. Does Qyburn know anything about Lord Baelish, other than the fact he was a shify fellow of semi-low birth whom people like Cersei disdained? Did he ever know much about Sansa Stark ? Both were gone before he got to King's Landing. So if semi-important Littlefinger has some bastard child he uses as a housekeeper, would he even think it significant ?

I get the feeling that Qyburn currently gets only as much information as Varys wants him to have.

LF cover story isn't bad per se. See, Varys couldn't know of Alayne because LF himself didn't know of her and not even Varys keeps track of every woman LF might or might not have slept with. And, push come to shove, Alayne/LF can claim Alayne was raised at a Riverlands sept destroyed during the war, which also explains why Alayne wouldn't want to talk about it.

However, the very big issue is why would LF believe Alayne's purported letter, and that would tick all alarms in Varys. But Varys is no longer serving the Iron Throne so LF has nothing to fear on that front yet. Other men would be inclined to believe what you write later: Alayne is one of LF's prostitutes, which he brought to the Vale to serve him, but Varys might want more information before making that conclusion.

[thehandwipes]

The one thing we're really missing is LF and Illyrio/Varys end-game. Sansa will be our eyes on LF. But unless Illyrio/Varys are being honest (I doubt it) about simply wanting Aegon to rule, we'll need a POV in a position to find out what they're up to. It was Arya who first saw them together but she doesn't know their names. I think she'll be sent to Pentos, maybe not to kill Illyrio (the FM must do more than just kill people, they're clearly players) but she'll be our eyes on his end-game. This would tie her story to her sister's if LF and Varys do have competing interests, if not pit them against each other.

[Colonel Green]

How do you know that she hasn't asked him? It's not like we saw every conversation they ever had since she saw him on the boat. Characters in the books have a ton of conversations that we don't see because they aren't important and contain no new info.

My opinion is that she asked him at some point and he naturally said some bullshit, like, oh, she became a ward of family X or was employed as a maid of some minor lady Y. It's not like Sansa could check any of it. Unless you think Littlefinger got bitten by the truth bug so he would tell her: "Oh, your friend. I made her a sex slave in one of my brothels."

My own opinion, based on the three references she makes to Jeyne in ACOK/AFFC, is that after she learned about the household massacre in AGOT she just wrote off Jeyne as murdered (which, really, is the logical inference; since Cersei and co. were lying to her about everything else in that meeting, why expect that Jeyne's still out there? There's no reason to think Jeyne would be kept alive; if Sansa ever hears about "Arya" she might revisit that assessment, but that hasn't happened yet). I expect she probably hasn't asked Littlefinger about it, between, variously, trying not to think about all the people who are dead, not wanting to have her suspicions confirmed -- and she may not even remember that Littlefinger was supposedly being given custody of her. We have the incident transcribed for us, so it's easy to check; given all the horrendous stuff that was happening around that time and since then on a pretty consistent basis, she may not remember that detail (which amounts to a couple of sentences).

See, Varys couldn't know of Alayne because LF himself didn't know of her and not even Varys keeps track of every woman LF might or might not have slept with.

Alayne's supposed birthdate would put her conception when Littlefinger was a minor customs officer at Gulltown (as far as we know), so Littlefinger wouldn't even have been on Varys' radar at that point.

However, the very big issue is why would LF believe Alayne's purported letter, and that would tick all alarms in Varys. But Varys is no longer serving the Iron Throne so LF has nothing to fear on that front yet. Other men would be inclined to believe what you write later: Alayne is one of LF's prostitutes, which he brought to the Vale to serve him, but Varys might want more information before making that conclusion.

There's a couple of alternative assumptions that a skeptical observer might arrive at. The first being that Littlefinger knew he had a daughter, contrary to what Alayne believes, but that until he arrived at this current status he didn't give a damn, but it's suddenly convenient to have breeding-aged children (that speculation would become especially likely if/when the word gets out that Littlefinger is currently shopping her around the Vale for marriage to major heirs). Relatedly, that same rationale, the value of having breeding-aged children, would be a plausible motive for him to fake having a daughter.

[juanml82]

Alayne's supposed birthdate would put her conception when Littlefinger was a minor customs officer at Gulltown (as far as we know), so Littlefinger wouldn't even have been on Varys' radar at that point.

I'm thinking now: for someone doing a throughout investigation on her, Alayne's birthdate should contradict LF's explanation. Sansa decided Alayne was a year older than Sansa (wait, did she tell that to Baelish?) so Alayne was born sometime during 285, and likely conceived during 284, a year after Robert's Rebellion.

This may amount to nothing plot wise, but if someone looks throughly at her date of birth, it's likely she wasn't born while LF was a minor customs office, but rather when LF was back at the Sisters, living by a small town in which someone, if asked, might very well talk about their young and usually absent lord

[Colonel Green]

Depending on when her "birthday" supposedly is, I believe it would be 286, since during the Alayne chapters the series is set midway through the year 300.

[Lord Tony of House Stark]

Arya will not kill Sansa. she will not be able to forget her and will not kill her and leave the FM

[The Mother of The Others]

Arya will not kill Sansa.

Then it's settled! This should have been said sooner.

[Lord Tony of House Stark]

:agree: how can a sister forget her sister? Arya has not gone through nearly enough trauma or brainwashing to forge her own family. if she is sent to kill sansa, she may agree to the assignment but will never carry it out because she will recognize her sister

[James Arryn]

I just thought of a way Arya could kill Sansa even if she recognizes her:

If she hears that she married a Lannister AFTER Ned's execution, that would dovetail uncomfortably with what they were fighting about before Robert's death. Even moreso if she is told of the role Sansa's current 'father' played in things.

I could even see Arya disregard a caveat that Sansa was forced, in that her entire experience with Sansa in/on the way to KL is Sansa choosing the Lannisters ahead of her own family.

In the same way she decides she has the right to 'execute' a deserter, she might feel she has the right to 'execute' a traitor.

Ooh, the more I think of this the more I can see GRRM doing it.

[Colonel Green]

I just thought of a way Arya could kill Sansa even if she recognizes her:

If she hears that she married a Lannister AFTER Ned's execution, that would dovetail uncomfortably with what they were fighting about before Robert's death. Even moreso if she is told of the role Sansa's current 'father' played in things.

I could even see Arya disregard a caveat that Sansa was forced, in that her entire experience with Sansa in/on the way to KL is Sansa choosing the Lannisters ahead of her own family.

Arya isn't an idiot. She heard Sansa's screams as Ned was executed. She would know the Lannisters forced her to do it. For that matter, if she's operating entirely on rumour, she would know that Sansa subsequently murdered Joffrey and escaped. She has, in fact, been told all that, but childishly didn't believe it; the more mature Arya wouldn't miss the significance of it.