R+L=J v.111

[J. Stargaryen]

So, here's something else:

"The Crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands,

not ten leagues from Harrenhal … where Rhaegar would once again come face-to-face with Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and with her light a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides..."

We know about Dayne and Whent, but who were the other 4 people?

And even more importantly- are they still alive in the present to be able to attest to Rhaegar's plans?

The bold probably means the Gods Eye. Another KotLT connection.

[Alia of the knife]

No, Rhaegar was dead.

Yes.

Thanks!

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

So, here's something else:

"The Crown prince had taken to the road with

half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands, not ten leagues from Harrenhal … where Rhaegar would once again come face-to-face with Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and with her light a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides..."

We know about Dayne and Whent, but who were the other 4 people?

And even more importantly- are they still alive in the present to be able to attest to Rhaegar's plans?

I'm thinking one of them may have been Lem Lemoncloak, errr.....

Richard Lonmouth ;) And while I think the God's Eye may have played a role in the story afterwards, I think the face-to-face occurred at the Inn at the Crossroads

[BearQueen87]

I'm thinking one of them may have been Lem Lemoncloak, errr.....

Richard Lonmouth ;) And while I think the God's Eye may have played a role in the story afterwards, I think the face-to-face occurred at the Inn at the Crossroads

Of course! Fate! Destiny! Were there three woman with various sewing implements on location per chance?

I jest but I like your idea (oh, both of them. I LOVE your Lemoncloak = Lonmouth essay)

[J. Stargaryen]

There was some discussion a while back about whether or not Rhaegar used a lance, or his hands, to place the crown of winter roses in Lyanna's lap. We get the answer in TWoIaF. Twice actually. There is a picture of the moment when all the smiles died, followed by a written confirmation. Anyway...

. . .

placing a garland of blue roses in her lap with the tip of his lance, . . . - pg. 126. So yes, Rhaegar did use a lance. A fact which seems to reinforce the Jon Snow conception symbolism present in Ned's recollection of the occasion. The tip of the lance, eh? :)

[BearQueen87]

There was some discussion a while back about whether or not Rhaegar used a lance, or his hands, to place the crown of winter roses in Lyanna's lap. We get the answer in TWoIaF. Twice actually. There is a picture of the moment when all the smiles died, followed by a written confirmation. Anyway...

. . .

placing a garland of blue roses in her lap with the tip of his lance, . . . - pg. 126. So yes, Rhaegar did use a lance. A fact which seems to reinforce the Jon Snow conception symbolism present in Ned's recollection of the occasion. The tip of the lance, eh? :)

BOOM.

Brilliant. And well done to you for that original "moment" thread.

[JonSnow4President]

BOOM.

Brilliant. And well done to you for that original "moment" thread.

I'd prefer BANG as the point of emphasis there.

[corbon]

Communicating almost exclusively through spoiler boxes is going to get really tedious, by the way. Does anyone know when we will be able to stop using the spoiler boxes?

I'll tell you whats tedious. 4 fracking pages with only 1-2 actual posts with anything in them. Go to the subforum and start a R+L=J thread there maybe, where you don't need spoiler tags?

Come back IN A MONTH. Some of us are not even sure whether the new book will get to our countries at all in that time. I'm just hoping that it will both have arrived and still be in stock when I travel internationally in a few weeks.

This thread is already one of the worst offenders for side chitchat but the last 4 pages are beyond silly.

[Alia of the knife]

Yeah, anyway.

I know Rhaegar was dead, but is the speculation that Aerys had in mind to pit Rhaegar and Viserys against one another the way Henry and Eleanor pitted their sons against one another?

[sj4iy]

Yeah, anyway.

I know Rhaegar was dead, but is the speculation that Aerys had in mind to pit Rhaegar and Viserys against one another the way Henry and Eleanor pitted their sons against one another?

Hmm...it's possible.

[UnmaskedLurker]

Yeah, anyway.

I know Rhaegar was dead, but is the speculation that Aerys had in mind to pit Rhaegar and Viserys against one another the way Henry and Eleanor pitted their sons against one another?

Well, he did rely on Rhaegar to lead the battle at the Trident and only named Viserys as heir, assuming that is what happened, only after Rhaegar is dead. It sounds like more of a distrust of Elia and Dorne than anything directly against Rhaegar, but who knows--Aerys was paranoid and unstable.

[Kingmonkey]

The excerpt says that after the battle at the Trident, Aerys sent his new heir Viserys away. What?

Rheager told Jaime that he was going to make changes after he got back from the Trident, and talked about calling a council. This is generally assumed to be a plan for a new Great Council. The previous two Great Councils were not about deposing a reigning monarch, they were about deciding the succession. In the case of the first Great Council, deciding who would succeed the reigning king rather than accepting the King's own choice, presumably because he'd gone a bit off the rails at that point.

Viserys being referred to as Aerys' new heir may be relevant to this.

[Alia of the knife]

Rheager told Jaime that he was going to make changes after he got back from the Trident, and talked about calling a council. This is generally assumed to be a plan for a new Great Council. The previous two Great Councils were not about deposing a reigning monarch, they were about deciding the succession. In the case of the first Great Council, deciding who would succeed the reigning king rather than accepting the King's own choice, presumably because he'd gone a bit off the rails at that point.

Viserys being referred to as Aerys' new heir may be relevant to this.

Especially in light of the ones held passed over the actual heirs, reasons nonwithstanding.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I dunno you guys, but after reading, despite the unreliability of the narrator, I still believe that

Rhaegar run into Lyanna by accident... he was planning something else, there.

[sj4iy]

I dunno you guys, but after reading, despite the unreliability of the narrator, I still believe that

Rhaegar run into Lyanna by accident... he was planning something else, there.

I would agree with you but for one thing- the fact that they disappear for months afterward.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Let's not forget abot spoilers.

Yeah, anyway.

I know Rhaegar was dead, but is the speculation that Aerys had in mind to pit Rhaegar and Viserys against one another the way Henry and Eleanor pitted their sons against one another?

I dunno if Aerys would actually want to put Viserys against Rhaegar, but don't forget that the motivation of his mistrust had little to do with Rhaegar himself but with others's ambitions. Since Tywin suggesting to let Aerys die so Rhaegar would be a "better King" until the Council realising that Rhaegar as King would mean the end of them. I mean, yes, Rhaegar probably wanted him removed, but he didn't want him harm. And, Aerys' yes-men only wanted to improve themselves and did little to help the King.

Also, remember that Jaime kinda suggests that Aerys indeed sent for Tywin's help, and was waiting a letter back, which didn't happen. And that suggestion came from Rhaegar after he returned to KL, so, Aerys still listened to Rhaegar and said little about him commanding an army, even if his intentions were only to defeat the Rebels.

I would agree with you but for one thing- the fact that they disappear for months afterward.

He could be planning remove his father during day and have sex with Lyanna at night :dunno:

[BearQueen87]

I dunno you guys, but after reading, despite the unreliability of the narrator, I still believe that

Rhaegar run into Lyanna by accident... he was planning something else, there.

I read the expert and I disagree.

I think they met there and that the narrator is unaware of the communications going on between L and R after the toureny. The fact that it's HH, the site of their first encounter, screams PLANNED to me

[IceFire125]

I think Rhaegar planned to be near (and at) the isle of faces.

I think Rhaegar wants to be with Lyanna and be seen... by the old gods. It has to be one of the reasons he was there.

'His is the song of ice and fire'

Rhaegar wants the old gods to see that he has fulfilled what's required.. his blood joining with the blood of the kings of winter/first men.

It was the reason that the old gods sent Jon, Ghost. The white fur with red blood-eyed direwolf is a mark/symbol and gift by the old gods to their chosen.

[sj4iy]

I just don't see Rhaegar, a married man, running off with Lyanna after an "accidental" run in at the place they met, and then disappearing for months afterwards if he was actually planning on finding another way to depose his insane father. It's possible, I suppose, but it just doesn't sound right.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

As I see it, Rhaegar was planning something political. He met Lyanna by chance and she joined him into whatever he planned. But the whole moving half a dozen of men to go and meet her and run to Dorne, I personally don't buy it.

In fact, I think he went with all of that people to Riverrun, they left and only Arthur and When remained with Rhaegar, and they moved with Lyanna to the Tower of Joy. The rest of people left. And who were these people? I assume those mentioned in text to be close to him: Lewyn, Arthur, Whent, Lonmouth, Jon and Mooton. My speculation is that they were given specific orders or were reunited with certain people. Whent (not the KG, his brother) had already served as a facade, why not doing it again? Or maybe they joined with Darry, who knows.