US Politics: The Day After The Political Earthquake

[TerraPrime]

[mod hat]

I can do this all night long. Fourteen posts and counting. I've cleared my schedule.

Go on, people, keep posting personal sniping shit, and see how deep my well of fucking patience goes.

[/mod hat]

[kuenjato]

As a Dem supporter I'm disappointed about last night. As a political junkie I'm fascinated.

Disappointed? A Republican win has been predicted for a long, long time. I'm not so much disappointed as... resigned. And have been for quite a while.

What is encouraging is the reverse we've seen in social trends over the past few years. Medical marijuana/legalization spreading across the country, or at least being considered. Gay marriage the same. Minimum wage increases, as the population realizes that the erosion of wages to purchasing power isn't going away. A pope who explicitly states that evolution and the bible are not antagonistic, not to mention that atheists and agnostics aren't going to hell.

Fifteen years ago, these were factors of some dimly-imagined future. Even five years ago. It's kind of amazing.

[peterbound]

[mod hat]

I can do this all night long. Fourteen posts and counting. I've cleared my schedule.

Go on, people, keep posting personal sniping shit, and see how deep my well of fucking patience goes.

[/mod hat]

So deep, so deep it put their ass to sleep?

[TrackerNeil]

Disappointed? A Republican win has been predicted for a long, long time. I'm not so much disappointed as... resigned.

What is encouraging is the reverse we've seen in social trends over the past few years. Medical marijuana/legalization spreading across the country, or at least being considered. Gay marriage the same. Minimum wage increases, as the population realizes that the erosion of wages to purchasing power isn't going away. A pope who explicitly states that evolution and the bible are not antagonistic, not to mention that atheists and agnostics aren't going to hell.

Fifteen years ago, these were factors of some dimly-imagined future. Even five years ago. It's kind of amazing.

Yes yes yes. Voters did not endorse the Republican vision for America; an electorate that is largely whiter and older than that of 2012 did what mid-term voters almost always do: punish the party in power. We've made so much leftward progress over the last six years that sometimes I can scarcely believe it.

[davos]

[mod hat]

I can do this all night long. Fourteen posts and counting. I've cleared my schedule.

Go on, people, keep posting personal sniping shit, and see how deep my well of fucking patience goes.

[/mod hat]

*mod hat* I've also already given a couple of folks a few days off because they simply refused to listen to our requests to cut this shit out. We are both serious. Stop the crap. Or we will stop it for you. TP might have some patience left in his well but mine has gone rather dry. */mod hat*

[peterbound]

Yes yes yes. Voters did not endorse the Republican vision for America; an electorate that is largely whiter and older than that of 2012 did what mid-term voters almost always do: punish the party in power. We've made so much leftward progress over the last six years that sometimes I can scarcely believe it.

Wait, by the definition of the term, the 'voters' endorsed the republican vision. You can hide behind some other nonsense, but the folks that show up made their voices heard, and it was one that supported the right's ideas.

[Shryke]

Those mistakes being?

Running away from their accomplishments. Leaving a ton of districts with no candidates or with candidates with no funding or support. Look at the links I posted earlier in the thread about Steve Isreal and the DCCC and DSCC.

[Shryke]

Wait, by the definition of the term, the 'voters' endorsed the republican vision. You can hide behind some other nonsense, but the folks that show up made their voices heard, and it was one that supported the right's ideas.

They supported the Republican party. This is not he same as supporting the right's ideas, which is what's been pointed out several times. You can see that in the dichotomy between the candidates that won vs the ballot initiatives that won.

Your problem is the assumption that the voters who voter on tuesday have a firm grasp of what the party they are voting for stands for. We've had ample evidence this is not the case much of the time.

[Sivin]

Yes yes yes. Voters did not endorse the Republican vision for America; an electorate that is largely whiter and older than that of 2012 did what mid-term voters almost always do: punish the party in power. We've made so much leftward progress over the last six years that sometimes I can scarcely believe it.

What I'm taking this to mean is that because the nation is slowly, agonizingly, taking steps towards decency, the old people punished the democrats.

As a layman, that seems a bit like blind hope. Like you're hoping that in fifteen years a bunch of those people will be dead or catatonic and the younger minorities will assume their place. While that seems like a nice thought to me, I have to wonder at its plausibility. Of course, I admit beforehand my lack of knowledge in this area, I'm curious to see proof of your projection or proof of the opposite.

[Shryke]

I have no problem at all with people discussing how a Republican policy negatively and/or disproportionately affects minorities, women, etc. I think that type of discussion is great. But a post that simply alleges that the GOP and Republicans are racist and sexist (and many posts fall into this category) adds nothing useful to the discussion whatsoever. All a post like that does is to make the environment hostile to opposing viewpoints.

No, all it does is recognize a pattern of behaviour and ascribe the correct label to it.

If a group goes around pushing policy that negatively effects people of colour and constantly makes disparaging racist remarks, then saying "that group is racist" is just an accurate assessment of a pattern of behaviour.

Whether that makes people who support that group feel bad or not seems rather irrelevant to the point.

[kuenjato]

Wait, by the definition of the term, the 'voters' endorsed the republican vision. You can hide behind some other nonsense, but the folks that show up made their voices heard, and it was one that supported the right's ideas.

As has been predicted for months. Years, even. This is no surprise. The amount of money to secure the victory is rather astonishing.

The republican vision 'won', to an extent, but these trends are not only gaining momentum, they are very popular. Stamping them out after losing two presidential elections and having the lowest congressional approval rating in history is not a way to make yourself viable for 2016. Of course, this is the GOP we're talking about.

What will be really fascinating to come will be the struggle to reign in the Tea Party in the coming two years. That so far has generated so much shadenfudge I worry sometimes about my mental diabetes.

[TerraPrime]

Wait, by the definition of the term, the 'voters' endorsed the republican vision. You can hide behind some other nonsense, but the folks that show up made their voices heard, and it was one that supported the right's ideas.

No doubt. I am not sure that anyone is disagreeing with that. I think given the voter turn-out rate, this outcome is as inevitable as it is foretold.

I just don't think that a representational Democracy is actually functioning when only less than 40% of the electorate are casting a vote, and of those who did go vote, the actual distribution of the country's population is not represented well. On these 2 points, I don't really blame the GOP too much, unless we start to see some evidence on the effects of their voter suppression laws coming up. The centrist Democrats are far too disinterested in midterms for their own damn good.

[karaddin]

No doubt. I am not sure that anyone is disagreeing with that. I think given the voter turn-out rate, this outcome is as inevitable as it is foretold.

I just don't think that a representational Democracy is actually functioning when only less than 40% of the electorate are casting a vote, and of those who did go vote, the actual distribution of the country's population is not represented well. On these 2 points, I don't really blame the GOP too much, unless we start to see some evidence on the effects of their voter suppression laws coming up. The centrist Democrats are far too disinterested in midterms for their own damn good.

100% on this point, the level of disengagement is seriously concerning. This model of voting really distorts the electorate and pulls towards extremism in a "motivate your base and get out the vote" way, where high turn out elections have to convince the non-partisan middle ground.

[Ormond]

A pope who explicitly states that evolution and the bible are not antagonistic, not to mention that atheists and agnostics aren't going to hell.

Fifteen years ago, these were factors of some dimly-imagined future. Even five years ago. It's kind of amazing.

Kuenjato, this is the part of your post that really doesn't have much to do with the US politics thread -- but you shouldn't have been so surprised here. The Roman Catholic church hasn't been antagonistic toward evolution for many years. It was Benedict's small backtrack on this subject that was unusual for a Pope, not Francis's statement.

[Shryke]

Disappointed? A Republican win has been predicted for a long, long time. I'm not so much disappointed as... resigned. And have been for quite a while.

What is encouraging is the reverse we've seen in social trends over the past few years. Medical marijuana/legalization spreading across the country, or at least being considered. Gay marriage the same. Minimum wage increases, as the population realizes that the erosion of wages to purchasing power isn't going away. A pope who explicitly states that evolution and the bible are not antagonistic, not to mention that atheists and agnostics aren't going to hell.

Fifteen years ago, these were factors of some dimly-imagined future. Even five years ago. It's kind of amazing.

I find myself less impressed by all this. Well one can point out that several social issues are going well (gay rights for instance) the economic and policy fight is still I think being lost by the political left. It's perhaps less bad then it used to be, maybe, but we are still the underdog ever since the conservative realignment around the 80s. The minimum wage increases are slightly encouraging but that seems to not have any significant political momentum in the government itself.

The US may be slowly letting gays get married (and thank god for that, don't get me wrong) but economic inequality is still increadibly high and still nothing is being done.

PS - Also, this Pope has not really changed the Catholic Church's stance on evolution in his recent statements, it's just alot of people were perhaps unaware of that stance. The anti-evolution types are almost entirely concentrated in the non-catholic christian community. (though obviously there are many non-catholic christians who are also not anti-evolution)

[peterbound]

Woke up this morning, had to thank Mods. Don't know, but this days seems kinda odd.

No flaming from the trolls, no coals, and we all did the thread with no more polls.

ETA: Forgive me.

hahahahaahahahah

that is the greatest thing i've read on the inter webs all day.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Sologdin,

so are articles of impeachment against BHO filed yet?

I'll still be surprised if that tack is taken.

[kuenjato]

No doubt. I am not sure that anyone is disagreeing with that. I think given the voter turn-out rate, this outcome is as inevitable as it is foretold.

I just don't think that a representational Democracy is actually functioning when only less than 40% of the electorate are casting a vote, and of those who did go vote, the actual distribution of the country's population is not represented well. On these 2 points, I don't really blame the GOP too much, unless we start to see some evidence on the effects of their voter suppression laws coming up. The centrist Democrats are far too disinterested in midterms for their own damn good.

This.

Given the tremendous level of information spewed on a constant basis, it's no surprise that people vote with their gut (that the country feels like a mess, throw the bums out) or retreat to what they were taught as youngsters. Coupled with Democrat apathy, and this doesn't seem so much as a mandate (hah!) or earthquake as a political going through the motions.

Kuenjato, this is the part of your post that really doesn't have much to do with the US politics thread -- but you shouldn't have been so surprised here. The Roman Catholic church hasn't been antagonistic toward evolution for many years. It was Benedict's small backtrack on this subject that was unusual for a Pope, not Francis's statement.

I find myself less impressed by all this. Well one can point out that several social issues are going well (gay rights for instance) the economic and policy fight is still I think being lost by the political left. It's perhaps less bad then it used to be, maybe, but we are still the underdog ever since the conservative realignment around the 80s. The minimum wage increases are slightly encouraging but that seems to not have any significant political momentum in the government itself.

The US may be slowly letting gays get married (and thank god for that, don't get me wrong) but economic inequality is still increadibly high and still nothing is being done.

PS - Also, this Pope has not really changed the Catholic Church's stance on evolution in his recent statements, it's just alot of people were perhaps unaware of that stance. The anti-evolution types are almost entirely concentrated in the non-catholic christian community. (though obviously there are many non-catholic christians who are also not anti-evolution)

Just trying to throw some sunshine into the gloom.

A small backtrack is quite different from the series of open proclamations made in the last couple years. And the regular introduction of legislation rebuking the War on Drugs and intolerance of gays. The mood is substantially different than a few years ago.

I do agree about the other factors, Shryke, though I think the seeds of our current political and economic malaise were planted in the late 60's with Nixon and were watered to fruition under Reagan. What worries me most is not the gridlock, as that is a given, but the Supreme Court, which has enabled these trends to horrifying levels.

[Suttree]

More on the minimum wage.

In an election in which the merest hint of association with President Obama seemed radioactive to Republican voters, one of his signature issues was embraced Tuesday in some of the country’s most solidly red states: raising the minimum wage.

Minimum wage ballot measures in Alaska, Arkansas, Nebraska and South Dakota were supposed to build on the White House’s enthusiasm for the issue, bringing liberal voters to the polls and improving the chances of vulnerable Democratic candidates.

Instead, voters ousted Democratic incumbents and supported the minimum wage increases with equal gusto.

[Shryke]

Sologdin,

I'll still be surprised if that tack is taken.

Yeah, they are still trying to sue Obama instead, cause they either think that will be less politically damaging or they think it will assuage the nutbars in their own caucus howling for something to be done.