Do you think Cersei's actions can be justified?

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

I can't say I believe she did any of it for the good of the realm. If that were true she would have had Robert's child. Everything she's done has been to protect herself and her children. I get THAT but she created all of her problems herself.

[Lord Lannister]

Cersei was always acting for the good of Cersei. She claims fealty to the realm so long as she's Queen. She claims devotion to her family so long as they're acting on her behalf. But the actions tell. Her actions can always be traced to self interest. If she was interested in the good of the realm, she'd let Tommen and Margaery grow close instead of doing everything possible to alienate her one major ally.

[Petyr Patter]

Of course her actions can be justified, Cercei spends a lot of AFFC doing just that.

This is my favorite response in this thread.

[Maid So Fair]

Justified by what? She certainly wasn't doing it for the realm and she doesn't regret her actions one little bit. She doesn't even TRY to justify what she's done except moaning about how everybody's set against her. I can understand why she had to act a certain way in certain situations, but that is usually marred by the knowledge that she is more often than not the person responsible for getting her into that situation in the first place. If she didn't abort Robert's baby nothing of what follows would have ever happened.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: No wai.

[Elia Sand]

Maybe Cersei is just being paranoid, selfish and narcissistic.(Did I spell that right?) In any case, they're all very, very bad traits.

I'm posting in my own thread, and this is a bump in disguise.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

I'm pretty sure that Cersei not giving Robert any trueborn children is something that she and Jaime did together. So you've just proved my point that it doesn't rest on her shoulders. Sure, she has to take her share of blame, but so does Jaime, Ned, Catelyn, Lysa and Littlefinger.

True, but unlike Jaime, she could have chosen to grant Robert a true born child, pretty much any time she wanted, and didn't

[lindsaybuckingham]

Yes, she can be justified. How would you feel if your whole life you were treated like crap by your father and constantly being overlooked in favor of your twin brother who you loved, and then you were forced to marry a man that rapes you repeatedly? She also has the threat of the volanquar haunting her her entire life....and then her son is brutally murdered before her eyes. She's obviously a victim of severe psychological trauma, as evidenced from her chapters in AFFC.

[Kaguya]

Yes, she can be justified. How would you feel if your whole life you were treated like crap by your father and constantly being overlooked in favor of your twin brother who you loved, and then you were forced to marry a man that rapes you repeatedly? She also has the threat of the volanquar haunting her her entire life....and then her son is brutally murdered before her eyes. She's obviously a victim of severe psychological trauma, as evidenced from her chapters in AFFC.

What about when she was a child murdering her best friend, what trauma caused that?

[lindsaybuckingham]

What about when she was a child murdering her best friend, what trauma caused that?

that's never been explicitly said, just implied. we don't really know the truth of that.

[Kaguya]

that's never been explicitly said, just implied. we don't really know the truth of that.

I think her seeing a wet Melara during her WOS is close to a confirmation.

[7th-key]

Why should she have chosen to give Robert at least one true heir?

Because Tyrion said so?

So if Robert had found out about the adultery he'd still eliminate Cersei AND would also have his legitimate heir. No loss for Robert.

Cersei got back at Robert and the society that treated her like a brood mare. For a change her plan wasn't even stupid and should have been bullet proof since it guaranteed the kids would look like the mother. Would have worked with the readers, too, if Joffrey had turned out kind and responsible. Like even the incest aspect rarely comes to mind regarding Tommen and Myrcella, but is always criticized in case of psycho Joffrey.

Circumstantial succession war aside, some comment that, refusing to provide heirs while profiting from the status of being Queen, Cersei tried to have her cake and eat it too. So? Robert profited from the benefits of being King but blatantly ignored his duties.

[The Wolves]

Yes, she can be justified. How would you feel if your whole life you were treated like crap by your father and constantly being overlooked in favor of your twin brother who you loved, and then you were forced to marry a man that rapes you repeatedly? She also has the threat of the volanquar haunting her her entire life....and then her son is brutally murdered before her eyes. She's obviously a victim of severe psychological trauma, as evidenced from her chapters in AFFC.

Cersei was not treated like crap by Tywin.

I'm sorry but the constant whinning that Cersei was overlooked is some stuff. What has Cersei done that shows that she should be held in some high regard? Jaime has a natural talent for the sword, Tyrion is even useful but what has Cersei done to be that a valid claim can be said that she was overlooked?

And no Cersei was not forced to marry Robert she was happy to marry Robert because it would mean she got to be queen and that's what she wanted. Cersei would do it all over again just so she could be queen.

That prophecy is Cersei own doing. She has made sure through her every action that that prophecy would come true. By having 3 bastard children separate as the King, recklessly having sex and upsurping that throne Cersei have made sure that prophecy came true.

Cersei is monster who paved and walked her own road everything that's happened to her is mostly her own doing.

[lindsaybuckingham]

Cersei was not treated like crap by Tywin.

I'm sorry but the constant whinning that Cersei was overlooked is some stuff. What has Cersei done that shows that she should be held in some high regard? Jaime has a natural talent for the sword, Tyrion is even useful but what has Cersei done to be that a valid claim can be said that she was overlooked?

And no Cersei was not forced to marry Robert she was happy to marry Robert because it would mean she got to be queen and that's what she wanted. Cersei would do it all over again just so she could be queen.

That prophecy is Cersei own doing. She has made sure through her every action that that prophecy would come true. By having 3 bastard children separate as the King, recklessly having sex and upsurping that throne Cersei have made sure that prophecy came true.

Cersei is monster who paved and walked her own road everything that's happened to her is mostly her own doing.

So because Cersei was young and naive and wanted to be queen she deserved to be raped by a monster?

[cheezitguy]

So because Cersei was young and naive and wanted to be queen she deserved to be raped by a monster?

Being treated like crap isn't an excuse for being evil. Gilly had it worse than Cersei. Gilly isn't evil. The prophecy crap is hardly a justification for her actions. Cersei is just a shit person who always finds other people/things to blame other than herself. A born sociopath imo who murdered her best friend and abused her younger brother before Robert raped her.

[lindsaybuckingham]

Being treated like crap isn't an excuse for being evil. Gilly had it worse than Cersei. Gilly isn't evil. The prophecy crap is hardly a justification for her actions. Cersei is just a shit person who always finds other people/things to blame other than herself.

You ever think that maybe because of genetics Cersei was predispositioned to be a little crazy? She is obviously somewhat mentally ill in AFFC and she probably gets it from her father. I think she deserves SOME sympathy, or pity at least.

[cheezitguy]

You ever think that maybe because of genetics Cersei was predispositioned to be a little crazy? She is obviously somewhat mentally ill in AFFC and she probably gets it from her father. I think she deserves SOME sympathy, or pity at least.

Well yeah. Of course she has mental problems because of genetic disposition. Due to that, she did not deserve any power and wouldn't in a just world....but it doesn't justify her actions.

[7th-key]

What about when she was a child murdering her best friend, what trauma caused that?

Some say it was over the jealousy over Jaime (Melara had her eyes on him). I had the impression it was due to the belief that if prophecies were left forgotten, never spoken of again, then they wouldn't come true. (Cersei briefly asked Pycelle to confirm that).

The prophecy was terrifying; Cersei might have caught the occasion to eliminate the only other person who would ever speak of it.

Granted, that's no excuse to her actions.

[GrammarYatzy]

GRRM wrote Cersei amazingly poorly as one of the most 1 dimensionally vain/dumb/evil characters in the book. Her added POV chapters didn't add to his poor writing of her.

So, it's hard to feel much sympathy for her since she is so poorly rendered.

Not sure if it's Mother issues or what for GRRM but he wrote Cersei incredibly poorly. It's one of things the show has handled better.

[Dofs]

GRRM wrote Cersei amazingly poorly as one of the most 1 dimensionally vain/dumb/evil characters in the book. Her added POV chapters didn't add to his poor writing of her.

So, it's hard to feel much sympathy for her since she is so poorly rendered.

Not sure if it's Mother issues or what for GRRM but he wrote Cersei incredibly poorly. It's one of things the show has handled better.

Cersei is supposed to be vain, dumb and unsympathetic, so making her one is not poor writing. Not every villain or a POV is supposed to be sympathetic. And unfortunately, Cersei is realistic as well. Show Cersei and book Cersei are completely different characters. The show did not improve her, she was just changed.