Tywin and Aerys tenure: Weak Monarchy and powerful Lords

[Minstral]

The Worldbook makes a mention that Tywin was responsible for the dissolution of the laws that Aegon 5.0 put in place to curb the power of the nobility, and the tone that the writer takes is that this is to be applauded. I have nursed the idea in my head at times and it starts to make me think that it was one of the deathblows for the Targaryens as a Dynasty. Aegon faced rebels but still retained the support of the Great Houses and larger nobility for the most part, as did most Targ monarchs before him, except with the hiccup between him and Lyonel.

Preceding this It appeared that many powerful houses could challenge their overlords, such as the case of Tyrells and Lannisters in these wars, and form factions against the Crown if they so wished it with the latter challenging Aegon and his reforms. So after the Blackfyre rebellions, the Reyne and Tarbeck coalition, and the rebellions against Aegon seem to be a symptom of powerful houses that could not be curbed by the Great Houses they supposedly owed fealty to. And yet this does not appear to be the case when we reach the present political reality when this Maester is writing to extoll the Baratheons and Lannisters in his work (the Worldbook). There was a shift here in the power of the Great Houses in relation to the Monarchy and Tywin's actions seemed to be the moment everything was finalized in this new structure.

From Daeron the second's reign to the ascension of his great grandson it appears that the Targs are combating constant rebellions, with peace coming all thanks to Tywin giving these lords back their power. A moment where we should see their victory, but instead we see that they more or less fall in line behind most of the Great houses (the Tully's being the obvious exception). It looks to me that these houses were finally exhausted to the point that the likes of the Lannisters, Tyrells, Arryns, and Baratheons (to and extent) managed to re-assert their authority over their wayward vassals. I don't believe that Lyonel would have gone to the length of declaring himself a King unless he had enough support from his own region, and the event could perhaps be looked as the Lord Paramounts coming to be a force like when there were seven kings.

Oddly enough, it also happens to be around this time that the Great Houses stop marrying into Houses of lesser nobility and start seeking matches amongst those of the same rank. This is not even an exaggeration; Baratheon/Arryn/Stark/Tully/Lannister/Martell all discussed marriages with one another, whereas the Tyrells seemed to take the traditional course of taking matches from their bannermen at this time.

There is no outright mention of this in the Worldbook obviously, though I believe that it is at least strongly indicated if one were to put these pieces together. Such a move by Tywin would be in his interest considering the power he managed to achieve in his campaign against the Reynes. He and Aerys presided over the dissolution of royal power in favor of extremely powerful Lords which would eventually overthrow the Targs.

[Maid So Fair]

It's quite ironic that everybody praises Tywin and disparages Aerys for going against him when it seems that Tywin spent most of his time as Hand consolidating his own power and weakening the crown.

[The hairy bear]

It is true that Tywin cared more about his own interests than the realm's, and that probably the strength of the overlords increased while he ruled as Hand. But it is very unlikely that the Targaryens would have fallen from power if it weren't from Aerys madness. Normally, after a period of a weakened crown would have arribed some charismatic king or capable Hand that would have reversed the cycle.

[Minstral]

It is true that Tywin cared more about his own interests than the realm's, and that probably the strength of the overlords increased while he ruled as Hand. But it is very unlikely that the Targaryens would have fallen from power if it weren't from Aerys madness. Normally, after a period of a weakened crown would have arribed some charismatic king or capable Hand that would have reversed the cycle.

Not saying that it wasn't, but instead of facing a bumch of loosley affiliated lords we see him combatting 4 of the seven great houses. This only representing one of several "deathblows" that put the Targs as a dynasty in the coffin.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Not saying that it wasn't, but instead of facing a bumch of loosley affiliated lords we see him combatting 4 of the seven great houses. This only representing one of several "deathblows" that put the Targs as a dynasty in the coffin.

Yes, apart from the Stormlands Rebellion, it was the first time the Targaryens faced Lords Paramount (the Dance was Targaryen vs Targaryen, so it doesn't count).

[Lion of the West]

The Worldbook makes a mention that Tywin was responsible for the dissolution of the laws that Aegon 5.0 put in place to curb the power of the nobility, and the tone that the writer takes is that this is to be applauded. I have nursed the idea in my head at times and it starts to make me think that it was one of the deathblows for the Targaryens as a Dynasty. Aegon faced rebels but still retained the support of the Great Houses and larger nobility for the most part, as did most Targ monarchs before him, except with the hiccup between him and Lyonel.

Preceding this It appeared that many powerful houses could challenge their overlords, such as the case of Tyrells and Lannisters in these wars, and form factions against the Crown if they so wished it with the latter challenging Aegon and his reforms. So after the Blackfyre rebellions, the Reyne and Tarbeck coalition, and the rebellions against Aegon seem to be a symptom of powerful houses that could not be curbed by the Great Houses they supposedly owed fealty to. And yet this does not appear to be the case when we reach the present political reality when this Maester is writing to extoll the Baratheons and Lannisters in his work (the Worldbook). There was a shift here in the power of the Great Houses in relation to the Monarchy and Tywin's actions seemed to be the moment everything was finalized in this new structure.

From Daeron the second's reign to the ascension of his great grandson it appears that the Targs are combating constant rebellions, with peace coming all thanks to Tywin giving these lords back their power. A moment where we should see their victory, but instead we see that they more or less fall in line behind most of the Great houses (the Tully's being the obvious exception). It looks to me that these houses were finally exhausted to the point that the likes of the Lannisters, Tyrells, Arryns, and Baratheons (to and extent) managed to re-assert their authority over their wayward vassals. I don't believe that Lyonel would have gone to the length of declaring himself a King unless he had enough support from his own region, and the event could perhaps be looked as the Lord Paramounts coming to be a force like when there were seven kings.

Oddly enough, it also happens to be around this time that the Great Houses stop marrying into Houses of lesser nobility and start seeking matches amongst those of the same rank. This is not even an exaggeration; Baratheon/Arryn/Stark/Tully/Lannister/Martell all discussed marriages with one another, whereas the Tyrells seemed to take the traditional course of taking matches from their bannermen at this time.

There is no outright mention of this in the Worldbook obviously, though I believe that it is at least strongly indicated if one were to put these pieces together. Such a move by Tywin would be in his interest considering the power he managed to achieve in his campaign against the Reynes. He and Aerys presided over the dissolution of royal power in favor of extremely powerful Lords which would eventually overthrow the Targs.

Tywin did not take away the laws imposed by Aegon V as a whole, but he did take away the very few that Aegon V himself didn't take away. And those don't seem to have affected the relation between the king and his lords but only between the lords and their smallfolk.

And while its most certainly a possibility that Tywin master-minded the Great Houses to start to marry with each other such things had happened before and I'm not sure that he would have this kind of influence among almost all the Great Houses. Only in the case of the Lysa-Jaime match do we know that Tywin himself took a hand.

It's quite ironic that everybody praises Tywin and disparages Aerys for going against him when it seems that Tywin spent most of his time as Hand consolidating his own power and weakening the crown.

Each House seeks to strenghten itself. I House Targaryen would work to strengthen the crown its because they happen to hold it.

Yes, apart from the Stormlands Rebellion, it was the first time the Targaryens faced Lords Paramount (the Dance was Targaryen vs Targaryen, so it doesn't count).

I think this is the key. Aerys, and Rhaegar, made the great mistake to provoke the Great Houses directly and did so at a time when there was a strong alliance between several of these.

[Minstral]

Tywin did not take away the laws imposed by Aegon V as a whole, but he did take away the very few that Aegon V himself didn't take away. And those don't seem to have affected the relation between the king and his lords but only between the lords and their smallfolk.

And while its most certainly a possibility that Tywin master-minded the Great Houses to start to marry with each other such things had happened before and I'm not sure that he would have this kind of influence among almost all the Great Houses. Only in the case of the Lysa-Jaime match do we know that Tywin himself took a hand.

I don't believe that Tywin masterminded some grand rebellion, though I do note that he appears influential during a time when there is a transition between powerful rogue house plaguing both the Great Houses and Monarchy as a whole, to these same houses falling in line behind their respective LP. Nor do I think Tywin masterminded a bunch of marriages, just that others recognized their new realities and capitlized on their ambitions to seek new alliances.

[Chaircat Meow]

Disagree.

I don't think Aegon's laws were to do with curbing the LPs specifically, they were about improving the lot of the smallfolk.

In the rebellion many houses did rise against their LPs in the Riverlands, the Stormlands and even the Vale.

[Lord Varys]

LionoftheWest,

Aegon V did not take back any of the reforms he had already implemented, but he could not enact all the reforms he wanted to. Jaehaerys II began taking back his father's reforms, and Aerys/Tywin only continued that tendency.

On the overall topic:

I think the OP theory is built on a false assumption of the nature of Aegon's reforms. There are hints that Aegon V wanted to strengthen the monarchy and eventually build a centralized absolute monarchy, but I don't think he got far in that direction. If Aegon V truly had begun building a centralized bureaucracy - say, by building a standing royal army, establishing a network of royal officials covering the whole Realm only answerable to the Iron Throne who took away lots and lots of the duties the Lords did in the name of the king - we should assume that this tendency would have inevitably continued.

Tywin Lannister would never have been able to tear down those structures again, as the very bureaucratic body of the Crown would have realized and understood that this was giving them a lot of power. And it would also have been his duty as Hand to uphold the interest of the king/Iron Throne, not his own interest as a great lord of the Realm.

I'm rather inclined to believe that Aegon's reforms struck home at a very different level. He changed laws and customs regulating the relationship between peasant and lord, between levy and master. That's what Yandel talks about when he mentions that the smallfolk enjoyed completely unheard of protections. Those protections do not necessarily have to come from a centralized bureaucracy but came perhaps from Aegon taking away certain rights the lords had over their smallfolk. Since that was essentially the personal domain of every lord in the Realm, it is ensured that many lords would object against such things. Perhaps even more than if Aegon had simply tried to humble the great lords. Higher and lower nobility do not have the same interests, and it should have been rather easy for any (Targaryen) king to turn the mercantile class and the lower nobles against the higher nobility to get rid of them. That's what essentially happened in many European countries.

But if the king decided to mess with the rights every lord and knight had on his own land since time immemorial, he would not have all that many allies in this whole thing. Especially since it seems that Egg was really trying to help the really small smallfolk, and they did not really have power or a voice to support him.

It may even be possible that Aegon never wanted to create an absolute/centralized monarchy.

[DMC]

Yeah, considering we not only do not know the content of Aegon V's reforms, but also the legal relationship between peasants and the nobility a priori, it's pretty much impossible to construct a plausible and/or coherent theory on the reforms. That goes for both Aegon's intent in enacting the reforms and Tywin's (and Jaeherys II's) in rescinding them. I highly doubt Martin has unpacked the idea of including these reforms in the narrative much beyond, "Aegon V tried to give more rights to the smallfolk and this was naturally opposed by the nobility - especially Tywin."

[Lord Varys]

I think George knows more or less exactly what Egg intended to do with his reforms, and it is very likely that those reforms will become an important topic in various Dunk & Egg stories should he get that far. There has to be a reason why Yandel only gave us the broad strokes of those reforms, and did also not explicitly name any of the enemies Egg made in his pursuit (neither those he made as prince nor does he made as king).

Considering that the reforms may have struck at the very base of feudal power, it is very likely that many of the 'good guys' from the main series were in fact Egg's arch-enemies throughout his reign (i.e. the Starks).

Houses Lannister, Baratheon, Tyrell, Tully, and Redwyne should have been on Egg's side at the beginning of his reign, as Gerold was a major supporter of Egg during the Great Council, and Egg later was able - with the help of Betha, but still - to make matches with the Baratheons, Tyrells, Tullys, and Redwynes. I guess this would have been impossible/very difficult if those houses were opposed to him from the start (the Laughing Storm was not, at least, that much is confirmed).

[Maia]

Houses Lannister, Baratheon, Tyrell, Tully, and Redwyne should have been on Egg's side at the beginning of his reign, as Gerold was a major supporter of Egg during the Great Council, and Egg later was able - with the help of Betha, but still - to make matches with the Baratheons, Tyrells, Tullys, and Redwynes. I guess this would have been impossible/very difficult if those houses were opposed to him from the start (the Laughing Storm was not, at least, that much is confirmed).

Actually, it would make sense if some, or even all of the Houses which were offered a royal marriage had been opposed to his acsencion and were actively opposing his reforms. Marriages would have been an effort to reconcile them to the crown and give them a stake in the new world order.

We only know for sure that House Lannister supported Aegon V for the throne, and that there was some pretty powerful opposition to him becoming a king.

[DMC]

That's how I took the relationship between the reforms and the marriage pacts - especially considering Yandel's direct quote is Aegon/Betha designed the pacts "in the hopes of winning their support for his reforms and strengthening his rule." I hope Martin gives more detail on the reforms in future Dunk and Eggs, but until he does it seems to me there's not even enough dots to connect in terms of their role on the high politics of Westeros.

[Lord Varys]

It is confirmed that Lord Lyonel always was a friend of Egg until the Jenny affair. And Yandel states that that Aegon and Betha wanted to win the Lords they brokered matches with for Egg's reforms - suggesting that they were not openly opposed to them at that point. I imagine that they were neutral or cautiously in favor of the king's overall political agenda at that point. After all, we have to keep in mind as well that Egg and Betha brokered those matches in 237 AC, only four years after he ascended to the Iron Throne, a year after the end of the six-year-winter and the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion. I'm inclined to believe that Egg did not yet have the time to begin any of his reforms. During the winter he had to keep his people alive, and afterwards he had to fight a war.

Sure, the Lords already knew Egg's heart at the Great Council. That's why he met such an opposition. But I guess Prince Aegon had merely interceded on the behalf of various individual people of low birth with his father and uncle - and thus making some particular noble/proud/haughty/cruel lords his personal enemies - he would not yet have drawn up a plan for his reforms back then while he was a prince at the far end of the line of succession, never expecting to rule as king.

Thus I doubt that the Tullys, Tyrells, and Redwynes could already be opposed to Egg's reform in 237 AC. I'm rather inclined to believe that Egg intended to bind some of the most powerful houses in the Realm directly to him personally (especially the Tyrells and Tullys), to use their strength to deal with any rebellions and violent opposition he might meet on the way (or, rather, to dissuade his enemies from rebelling/openly defying him, as they would have known that they would then have to face the power of Highgarden, Storm's End, Riverrun, and the Arbor as well).

And that's what failed. Egg's reign was troubled by incursions and rebellions because the failed marriage pacts cost him the support of those powerful houses, and he had additional enemies.

[DMC]

Well sure, I think there's a little semantic misunderstanding here - quite obviously any opposition the marriage-pact houses may have had with the reforms would be more in the dissent category rather than what any king would consider open sedition. If it was the latter the pacts wouldn't have been made! What I'm saying is the way the pacts were described by Yandel strongly suggests the Tullys, Tyrells, etc. were not big fans of the reforms and needed a carrot to be brought into the fold.

In terms of the timeframe, while it's a good point Egg was quite busy in the four years between his ascendency and when the pacts were made, it's still plenty of time for Egg to at least express his intent to enact such reforms to the high lords, as the betrothals indicate he was indeed campaigning for support.

ETA: Just saw this and thought it was interesting - the 'dissent' to the reforms Yandel himself quotes calls Egg a tyrant for depriving the lords of their "gods-given rights and liberties." For me, this suggests opposition based on Andal traditions, as the seven are the most entangled in the administration of the 'law.'

[Vikingkingq]

I'm rather inclined to believe that Aegon's reforms struck home at a very different level. He changed laws and customs regulating the relationship between peasant and lord, between levy and master. That's what Yandel talks about when he mentions that the smallfolk enjoyed completely unheard of protections. Those protections do not necessarily have to come from a centralized bureaucracy but came perhaps from Aegon taking away certain rights the lords had over their smallfolk. Since that was essentially the personal domain of every lord in the Realm, it is ensured that many lords would object against such things. Perhaps even more than if Aegon had simply tried to humble the great lords. Higher and lower nobility do not have the same interests, and it should have been rather easy for any (Targaryen) king to turn the mercantile class and the lower nobles against the higher nobility to get rid of them. That's what essentially happened in many European countries.

But if the king decided to mess with the rights every lord and knight had on his own land since time immemorial, he would not have all that many allies in this whole thing. Especially since it seems that Egg was really trying to help the really small smallfolk, and they did not really have power or a voice to support him.

It may even be possible that Aegon never wanted to create an absolute/centralized monarchy.

I think this is quite correct. OP is putting the cart in front of the horse - Aegon wanted to strengthen the monarchy because he was getting resistance to his pro-smallfolk reforms, as a means to an end. Hence the drive to tie the monarchy to the Baratheons, Tullys, Tyrells, Redwynes, etc. Hence the attempt to wake dragon eggs. Both came after he encountered rebellion and resistance, not before.

It makes a lot more sense that the "half a peasant" king gets in trouble for helping the smallfolk rather than trying to aggregate power for himself. "Bloody handed tyrant intent on depriving us of our gods-given rights and liberties" sounds a lot more that Aegon was taking away privileges of the nobility than establishing powerful royal institutions.

[Lord Varys]

Yeah, I'd say that his idea/obsession to restore the Targaryen dragons was at the very end point of the development. He only settled on that, after he could not really gather enough (or any) support from the great houses through the failed marriage contracts. I doubt that the Laughing Storm stood again by his side after he lost the trial-by-combat. That ended the war, but it did not restore the friendship between Aegon V and Lyonel Baratheon. Rhaelle was apparently virtually a hostage at Storm's End, at least before she was old enough to marry Ormund. Eventually, that marriage brought the Baratheons back into the fold, which can be seen by Ormund's and Steffon's devotion to House Targaryen, but I very much doubt that Egg could expect any help from Storm's End for his reforms after 239 AC.

And the same should be true for the Tullys, the Tyrells, and the Redwynes. Neither house may have risen in rebellion against him, as Yandel does not mention such rebellions, but it is very likely that they did not really help Aegon V as much as they could during other rebellions, and did not help him at/openly opposed where his reforms were concerned.

Thus a strong monarchy through dragons was only a means for an end for Aegon V, not the end. However, we should assume that other Targaryens may have been rather interested in dragons as the end ... which should actually put to rest any theories that Aerys/Tywin or any other royal prince may have been behind Summerhall. Egg was old by that time, and any dragons he might hatch would inevitably be inherited by his successors... They could have then tried to mold the Iron Throne into a real absolute monarchy.

'Gods-given rights and liberties':

I'd not restrict this to the Andal sphere. According to Roose, some Northern lords still practice the First Night, which should be a custom Egg would see finally overcome. Some of the Northern Lords, especially the Starks, go to some lengths to bond with their smallfolk, but we have no idea what kind of men Edwyle and Willam Stark were, although the whole marriage to Melantha Blackwood could be a hint that Willam was married to Egg's sister-in-law, which could be a hint that the Starks were close to the Targaryens at that point. The fact that Egg went to great lengths to support the North during the winter also pinpoints in that direction. I imagine Egg is destined to make friends at Winterfell when he finally gets there - however, that's not a given, and he may also make himself some powerful and influential enemies in the North (or directly at Winterfell within a branch of House Stark). My take on the 'She-Wolves' story is that Dunk & Egg will get involved in a power struggle at Winterfell, and Egg will eventually be forced to use his 'royal authority' to resolve that conflict - and by doing so, he will not only make himself some friends...

I'd be inclined to believe that the old gods also grant the First Men lords whatever rights they have, however I agree that the Faith clearly would be much better formulate such 'claims'.

[Maia]

Well, it has been hinted and seems very likely, that there had been powerful opposition to Egg becoming king. If it is mentioned that Lyonel had always been a friend of Egg's (until Duncan's marriage debacle), then he had Lannisters and Baratheons in his corner. It would only make sense if other paramounts, such as Tullys and Tyrells and powerful second-tier lords, such as Redwynes, opposed his ascension and/or had been undecided and had to be bullied by good old BR or won over. In fact, given that Blackfyres traditionally had strong support in the Reach, it would make sense if Tyrells/Redwynes had been behind the candidacy of Aenys Blackfyre. Covertly, of course, but known to Bloodraven, and through him to Egg.

It also occurs to me that Arryns very likely were strongly opposed. Indeed, offer to Aemon may have been coupled with him naming infant Maegor as his heir. After all, many may have thought that Aemon had been as uninterested in marriage as his uncle Aerys I, what with his choice of vocation and all... And this way, they could avoid a baby on the throne, without creating a ticking bomb of a rightful heir, who had been passed over. As it is, it seems that, luckily for everybody (or maybe not exactly "luckily" as such?), Maegor didn't live to become an adult, but still it was a reasonably big risk of creating another Blackfyre-like situation, only worse.

Re: the Starks - how old could Lord Edwyle have been in 133? Given that he was very likely the younger son between him and ill-fated Brandon, who died in infancy, and that his father Willam was himself a minor and a middle child of only a 30-ish man at that (which may be subject to change, of course) at the time when Dunk and Egg visited WF. Marriage with Melantha Blackwood may not have even happened yet at that point. And Artos the Implacable, who would have been regent during Edwyle's minority and no doubt remained very influential until his death, given the statue in the Crypts and all, sounds like somebody who'd oppose Egg succeeding to the throne. Interestingly enough, even after Egg had gone above and beyond the expected when helping the North during the 6-year Winter, we didn't hear about the Starks or any northern lords being more supportive towards him and his reforms than other nobility.

Hm... it occurs to me that if we ever get to read "The She-Wolves of Winterfell", we might be treated to some interactions between Egg and Willam/Artos, _before_ the Stark lordlings learn who they are really dealing with. Which might be very interesting indeed, heh. I hope to see more variety among the historical Starks than the saintly image that we have been largely presented with so far in the series itself.

[Aemond's Eye]

Well, it has been hinted and seems very likely, that there had been powerful opposition to Egg becoming king. If it is mentioned that Lyonel had always been a friend of Egg's (until Duncan's marriage debacle), then he had Lannisters and Baratheons in his corner. It would only make sense if other paramounts, such as Tullys and Tyrells and powerful second-tier lords, such as Redwynes, opposed his ascension and/or had been undecided and had to be bullied by good old BR or won over. In fact, given that Blackfyres traditionally had strong support in the Reach, it would make sense if Tyrells/Redwynes had been behind the candidacy of Aenys Blackfyre. Covertly, of course, but known to Bloodraven, and through him to Egg.

It also occurs to me that Arryns very likely were strongly opposed. Indeed, offer to Aemon may have been coupled with him naming infant Maegor as his heir. After all, many may have thought that Aemon had been as uninterested in marriage as his uncle Aerys I, what with his choice of vocation and all... And this way, they could avoid a baby on the throne, without creating a ticking bomb of a rightful heir, who had been passed over. As it is, it seems that, luckily for everybody (or maybe not exactly "luckily" as such?), Maegor didn't live to become an adult, but still it was a reasonably big risk of creating another Blackfyre-like situation, only worse.

Re: the Starks - how old could Lord Edwyle have been in 133? Given that he was very likely the younger son between him and ill-fated Brandon, who died in infancy, and that his father Willam was himself a minor and a middle child of only a 30-ish man at that (which may be subject to change, of course) at the time when Dunk and Egg visited WF. Marriage with Melantha Blackwood may not have even happened yet at that point. And Artos the Implacable, who would have been regent during Edwyle's minority and no doubt remained very influential until his death, given the statue in the Crypts and all, sounds like somebody who'd oppose Egg succeeding to the throne. Interestingly enough, even after Egg had gone above and beyond the expected when helping the North during the 6-year Winter, we didn't hear about the Starks or any northern lords being more supportive towards him and his reforms than other nobility.

Hm... it occurs to me that if we ever get to read "The She-Wolves of Winterfell", we might be treated to some interactions between Egg and Willam/Artos, _before_ the Stark lordlings learn who they are really dealing with. Which might be very interesting indeed, heh. I hope to see more variety among the historical Starks than the saintly image that we have been largely presented with so far in the series itself.

I can't see that, really. Aemon wasn't originally given much of a say in his training as a maester - it was a decision made by Daeron II. He chose to continue that life of service rather rather than leaving when he came of majority age, but I don't think anyone would have expected him to take the throne and then life out a life of celibacy. Given the political situation at the time, it's likely that had be became King Aemon, then he'd have been expected to marry a daughter of one of the great houses, especially with the Blackfyre threat still looming in the background.

[Lord Varys]

Maia,

considering that Maegor Targaryen had an Arryn grandmother through his mother Daenora, daughter of Rhaegel and Alys Arryn, my guess is indeed that the Arryns did oppose Egg and favored Maegor at the Great Council.

However, we should not make the mistake to consider the great houses the leaders of 'voting-blocs'. A Great Council seems to be an open forum where the lords exchange arguments and then vote in secret (which is why Gerold Lannister's golden voice apparently was quite important there). Thus we don't have to assume that the Tullys or the Tyrells were the leaders of powerful anti-Egg factions. And I'd be very surprised if the Tyrells dared to go as far as even giving covert support to a Blackfyre claimant. I agree that Aenys' supporters would most likely have been Reach Lords, but we should also not ignore the West in all of that. Lord Gerold, personally, was a friend of Egg's (most likely only through Rohanne) but from that does not follow that all the West was in favor of the 'peasant king'...

I'd rather assume that the whole Aemon plan involved a marriage proposal to the destined new king, who, freed from his vows as a maester, was not only free to take the throne but also to marry. And the lord coming up with that solution to prevent Aegon V most likely also had a daughter of his mind Aemon would then have to marry in exchange for the Iron Throne. Maegor as Aemon's heir would have been another way to prevent Egg and his line to inherit the Iron Throne from childless Aemon, but for that we would have to assume that Aerion's faction was also solely behind the 'Aemon solution', and this does not seem to be the case. Maegor had very little support, apparently, but Aegon had many enemies. Some of them would have been Aerion's old cronies, but some of them were Egg's very own enemies, and I imagine the idea of 'King Aemon' originated with the latter.

As to the Starks:

I was speaking generally there, for the most part. Willam and Edwyle would have been the Lords of Winterfell at various throughout the life of Egg. Considering that Willam died in 226 AC, and Melantha Blackwood had only two children, Edwyle and Jocelyn, it is very likely that Willam and Melantha married around the time or shortly after Egg and Betha.

In 212 AC, when Dunk and Egg are most likely destined to visit Winterfell (unless George does not rearrange things and writes 'The Village Hero' first and puts it in the time line prior to their eventual journey into the North), Lord Beron's children should all be in the same age as Egg or younger. Considering that the story is supposed to tell a strife between Stark women for supremacy, Donnor Stark cannot be 12-14 I think, or else his mother would really have no trouble with the other Stark wives, as Donnor would have been groomed to become Lord of Winterfell (we would effectively have a Robb scenario). That could only not work if Donnor was not exactly lordly material (i.e. a lackwit, or otherwise sickly/weak). In fact, such a scenario could also explain why Donnor was apparently not married, whereas Willam had two wives... With such a scenario Donnor could easily be 14-15, perhaps even a man grown - the true power would always reside with his mother or whoever controlled him.

And we have to keep in mind that Lorra Royce, Beron's wife, would have been the first Southron Lady of Winterfell since Black Aly Blackwood. I'm pretty sure Lorra and Beron's children when thank Egg for what he is going to do for their mother, but other Starks might not. Come to think of that - has anyone ever considered the idea that Rodrik Stark may have become 'the Wandering Wolf' because he began his travels as a companion of Dunk and Egg after they left Winterfell...? That would be very interesting indeed...