Inigima Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 So, I vaccinated my kids because, that's just what you do. It was never a thought to withhold them. But that was 9-10 years ago. One thing I don't understand after reading through the thread though, is how does no vaccinating your child endanger others? If others are vaccinated, there is no risk to them of being around someone contagious right? Like, my kids couldn't get sick fro measles or whatnot from an unvaccinated child, could they?Untrue for several reasons. Vaccinations aren't 100% effective, some people can't get them (allergies, e.g.), people with weakened immune systems are at higher risks, etc. We rely on herd immunity -- the idea that a virus is unlikely to make headway if someone does contract it because most people are immunized -- to protect those people and prevent epidemics.Most people in these outbreaks are unvaxed but not all. Read up on herd immunity, there are lots of good explanations online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Mr.OJ,This is a great episode of NOVA that will answer many if not all of your questions:http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/vaccines-calling-shots.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 So, I vaccinated my kids because, that's just what you do. It was never a thought to withhold them. But that was 9-10 years ago. One thing I don't understand after reading through the thread though, is how does no vaccinating your child endanger others? If others are vaccinated, there is no risk to them of being around someone contagious right? Like, my kids couldn't get sick fro measles or whatnot from an unvaccinated child, could they?Your children are now part of the herd, protecting those that aren't vaccinated either for medical or other reasons. The smaller the herd, the more risk of it infecting and spreading amongst the unprotected.Also, the vaccine isn't 100% effective. But measles was completely eradicated from the US in 2000 and yet, here we are with an outbreak. Almost certainly imported from outside North America.http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/04/18/304155213/why-mumps-and-measles-can-spread-even-when-were-vaccinatedAnyhoo. There's also been a crazy outbreak of mumps amongst NHL teams this season. And lack of vaccination doesn't seem to be the issue. http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6375744Guess I was slow on the post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlle. Zabzie Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If the government has the right to quarantine in the interests of public health, why shouldn't it have the right to enforce vaccination (which is, in fact, less invasive)? As the parent of 30 week premies, this is something that I feel incredibly strongly about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If the government has the right to quarantine in the interests of public health, why shouldn't it have the right to enforce vaccination (which is, in fact, less invasive)? I know, right? Chris Christie tossed a nurse into involuntary quarantine because she maybe-possibly-probably not carried Ebola, but now he wants to let parents skip vaccinations we know work. It's crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Vox: The research linking autism to vaccines is even more bogus than you thoughtOJ, at the bottom of the link is Vox's card stack on vaccines, which you may find informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Zabzie,Not defending the anti-vaxxers but quarantine is less invasive of the body than vaccination is. Don't we allow people to refuse medications against medical advice because we don't like telling people what they must put into their bodies. Vaccination falls within that aegis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 See also this story about a 2014 outbreak of measles, which is informative. It also appears to support Commodore's assertion that this isn't as severe a crisis as we think.http://www.vox.com/2015/1/29/7929791/measles-outbreak-2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Zabzie,Not defending the anti-vaxxers but quarantine is less invasive of the body than vaccination is. Don't we allow people to refuse medications against medical advice because we don't like telling people what they must put into their bodies. Vaccination falls within that aegis.Hypothetical example:If I refuse chemotherapy, there's no risk to you of contracting my cancer. Conversely, to keep with this tack, if you are not vaccinated you put not only yourself but me as well in my weakened immune state at risk of contracting X. Huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Kair,Not disputing that. I think schools should be able to bar unvaccinated children on a public health basis. Whether that means we can force people to be vaccinated remains to be seen.Here's an interesting thought could businesses require vaccination for their employees as a condition of employment? I don't see why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 See also this story about a 2014 outbreak of measles, which is informative. It also appears to support Commodore's assertion that this isn't as severe a crisis as we think.http://www.vox.com/2015/1/29/7929791/measles-outbreak-2014Uh, what?http://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.htmlIt's only February 2nd. Look at the January 2015 stat for cases and spread of states. And last year's record number of cases. And like your article suggests, half were isolated to one Amish ground zero area in Ohio. Luckily no one visits the Amish on quite the same numbers they do Disney.100 cases. 200 cases. 600 cases. The number is irrelevant when you consider there was a time of NO cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suttree Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 It also appears to support Commodore's assertion that this isn't as severe a crisis as we think.http://www.vox.com/2015/1/29/7929791/measles-outbreak-2014 ? Also that wasn't how I read his assertion of a "manufactured crisis" and anti-vaxxers being a relatively new thing that will just go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Kair,Not disputing that. I think schools should be able to bar unvaccinated children on a public health basis. Whether that means we can force people to be vaccinated remains to be seen. Barring children from public school really isn't sustainable; you'd better believe there are some parents who would either switch them to a private school or (gulp) homeschool to avoid this restriction. And even if they didn't, why are we punishing children for their parents' foolishness? The way I see it, vaccination for all should be required. Period. Those with objections, religious or philosophical, can either take their kids to another country or shut the f*ck up, as they prefer. Sorry to seem to harsh, but this is a bunch of nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheRa Seastar Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If I refuse chemotherapy, there's no risk to you of contracting my cancer. Conversely, to keep with this tack, if you are not vaccinated you put not only yourself but me as well in my weakened immune state at risk of contracting X. Huge difference.This. 100 times, this.My friend was hospitalised for catching her niece's tonsillitis during her chemo treatment, and I had a bag packed ready to leave home if my son had been near a child with chicken pox, because of the potentially life threatening risk of catching it. I think people forget just how dangerous the likes of measles are, because they haven't seen anyone go through it.ETA the ones who are old enough to remember the terrible effects of these preventable illnesses, are the ones who would probably die from exposure to them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglose Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I mean just looking at it at a pure rational way:A desease with 2 properties returned:1. Considered to be exterminated.2. Can end deadly or leave you as vegetable/impaired if you are unlucky. Considering, everything else happening in the first world we get so high, mighty and caring or outraged about , this is a REAL problem! This is a real danger.Why? Because it is not one of those problems which are already over or which are on decline or stagnating or have to be overrated to get attention or are simply made up to get attention or to draw attention from something else or for political gain (you know, the stuff we are used to). This, if left alone, will get worse!And unfortunatly it is not a US-only problem. Meaning airplanes can be great vectors for spreading. It is one thing if idiots in your country get sick and are a danger for themself and others. But if you also get tourist and travelers unloading their newest disease... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 That is actually believed to be the vector for the return of measles, by all accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I'm the only person in my home who got the flu vaccine this year (offered for free by my office). It's hit my MiL and now my wife. I'm wondering if I'll dodge the bullet or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I'm the only person in my home who got the flu vaccine this year (offered for free by my office). It's hit my MiL and now my wife. I'm wondering if I'll dodge the bullet or not. There's no guarantee but your odds are better with the vaccination than without. Just in case people don't know, due to the nature of the influenza virus, the vaccine works better when you have received prior doses. In other words, the more consistent you are in getting the flu shot annually the more protection it will give you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Refusing to vaccinate a child is borderline child abuse in my book. Especially when people have no idea and they imagine some conspiracy theories. Which is very common in Serbia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 TP,This is my second flu shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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