Vaccination and the erronous fear against it

[Larry of the Lawn]

The real poison of course is dihydrogen mono-oxide. Antivaxxers and other science deniers love to complain about that particular chemical.

I heard that dropbears got the chlamydia vaccine that all the normal koalas passed on. Sounds like the vaccines create supermonsters.

[TrueMetis]

The real poison of course is dihydrogen mono-oxide. Antivaxxers and other science deniers love to complain about that particular chemical.

Fuck that stuff, kills everyone who drinks it.

[Stubby]

I heard that dropbears got the chlamydia vaccine that all the normal koalas passed on. Sounds like the vaccines create supermonsters.

Pfft. Dropbears have been around since long before vaccines, chlamydia or those lame imposters, koalas.

[TerraPrime]

Fuck that stuff, kills everyone who drinks it.

There is a 100% correlation between the presence of dihydrogen monoxide and death. It's enough to give everyone a pause. Why aren't we mandating labeling of food contents with this substance? And what is the mainstream media not telling us on account of their cozy relationships with Monsanto?

[all swedes are racist]

There is a 100% correlation between the presence of dihydrogen monoxide and death. It's enough to give everyone a pause. Why aren't we mandating labeling of food contents with this substance? And what is the mainstream media not telling us on account of their cozy relationships with Monsanto?

My cacti all agree... Or they would if they weren't fucking dead from overexposure to this insidious poison.

From now on my family and I will drink nothing but high octane gasoline. It's refreshing, good for the economy, and a potent source of precious low-fat low-carb calories to get us through our busy lives.

[TrueMetis]

My cacti all agree... Or they would if they weren't fucking dead from overexposure to this insidious poison.

From now on my family and I will drink nothing but high octane gasoline. It's refreshing, good for the economy, and a potent source of precious low-fat low-carb calories to get us through our busy lives.

and it's organic.

[all swedes are racist]

and it's organic.

True!

I mean, if God didn't want us drinking petroleum, why did he leave it just lying around all over the place, tempting us like so much check-out aisle candy?

[Wise Fool]

There is a 100% correlation between the presence of dihydrogen monoxide and death. It's enough to give everyone a pause. Why aren't we mandating labeling of food contents with this substance? And what is the mainstream media not telling us on account of their cozy relationships with Monsanto?

Did you know it's even in our water supply now?

This is getting serious.

[Biglose]

I have to say, that the anti-vaccers really get me. I am on the constant retreat from demanding too much knowledge of natural science from people.

If the earth moves around the sun or the other way round, believe what you will. (Fun fact, both is actually correct:Theory of relativity, depends on where you put the observer. The point is I do not even demand full on newtonion physics.)

But we are flying around it every day, so the fuck it is not falt.

So thats actually the line I would like to hold: If it is used (for years or even for decades) in our every day life, you do not get the right to doubt it, because thats really fucking stupid.

Scientific method: Used for centuries, proven to work day after day in millions of application. Fuck, most car mechanics use it to fix your car. You do not get to question its validity and no some shit you just came up with is not on equal fooding.

Vaccines: We eradicated several diseases with them, they work. No because you read something on the internet we do not have to take you seriously.

@Fez

Guess his doctoring days matter a bit more to him. Or possibly he's reading the tea leaves from polls like the above one, and sees that old white people are strongly pro-vaccination. Seems like Rand may have made a large mistake.

Or maybe it has something to do with the fact, that you know he is a bit older and well black. Because do not kid yourself, a rich middleclass white kid(and thats where most of the anti-vaccers are at home) may get sick, but than thanks to modern medicine they probably get him or her alright again. Poor and black (which still is kind of a correlation) not so much.

Add to that fact, that a lot of those deseases (which used to be eradicated) were eredicated from white neighbourhoods first. And we are talking second half of the 20. century here. It is not that long...

Vaccines are first and formost important for the lower classes, which can't afford expensive medical treatment. (It should be a no-brainer for everybody, but a lot of people do not seem to have a brain) (Not talking about anything which could and up a pandemic, more the regular "killers of children")

[Solmyr]

If not for the weakening of herd immunity, I would totally support anti-vaxxers - I would even submit them for a Darwin award, for they are demonstrating first hand how one can remove themselves from the gene pool through sheer stupidity. But since their stupidity also affects innocent people we're kinda forced to fight them back and potentially prolong their ignorant lives :).

I am not ashamed to admit that at one point of my life, for a very short time, I also harboured some doubts about the side-effects of vaccines. However, the sources that caused me to manifest these doubts were nowhere near credible enough for me to form a definite opinion on the matter. Fortunately for me, a few friends of mine are quite versed in science (chemist, microbiologist, immunologist) and it took them less than 2-glasses-of-beer of time to explain to me how things work.

[Alex.]

If there's no good medical reason not to vaccinate your children (i.e. allergies or something) and you still choose not to do it you should be put in jail and have your children confiscated from you immediately.

[TrueMetis]

If there's no good medical reason not to vaccinate your children (i.e. allergies or something) and you still choose not to do it you should be put in jail and have your children confiscated from you immediately.

Not sure if I'd go that far, just vaccinate the kids at school anyway.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I only recently found out that this was a thing. It's really very sad to see so many people convinced that vaccines are a bad thing.

[Biglose]

I would not even go that far to force vaccinate people. It can have quite devestating effects, because some people will get scared of the force used.

(And there is the problem with alergic reaction (0.28% total including even light once light iching) which can be much better handeld if the doctor "knows" the child and the his medical history. )

What we need to change is this attitude of respecting opinions of people just because they see them as a group, mostly with the adjective "concerned" in front. And just openly tell them:

You are risking your childs futur (becoming a vegetable after a serious infection) and you are risking the safty of other children. And your arguments are wrong. Sure you have to explain why it is like it is and not only go for the argument from authority, but you should keep it 100%. Not like I understand your concern, no the fuck I do not and I will not, because there is nothing to understand about you beeing an idiot. Society has to stop giving legitimacy to every bollocks out of a false understanding of tolerance.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Stubby,

The real poison of course is dihydrogen mono-oxide. Antivaxxers and other science deniers love to complain about that particular chemical.

Water poison is a deadly danger. How many Aussies are killed in flash floods? ;)

[The Iceman of the North]

What do these doctors get out of pushing that line of thinking and how can they reach such a different conclusion? If complications can result from a vaccine, I wonder if they're using that to validate their anti-vaccine stance.

Well the British doctor who first made the claim, just happened to have an alternative vaccine.

That said, as mentioned above, some vaccines have adverse effects on a few of those taking it. For instance, at the last flu pandemic scare, the authorities here recommended almost everyone to get a flu shot. As a result, a handful of kids got narcolepsy. In hindsight, this of course is unfortunate, especially as a pandemic outbreak never occurred, but on the macro level, the good outweighs the bad.

[Inigima]

Not sure if I'd go that far, just vaccinate the kids at school anyway.

If anything it's not far enough.

EDIT: Look at this fucking guy

An Arizona cardiologist told CNN in an interview that went online Monday that he doesn't care if his refusal to vaccinate his kids gives other children grave, preventable diseases.

“I’m not going to sacrifice the well-being of my child. My child is pure,” Dr. Jack Wolfson said in the interview. “It’s not my responsibility to be protecting their child.”

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jack-wolfson-vaccines-doctor-measles

If you won't let us bring back the firing squad, at least strip this clown of his license to practice medicine.

[kairparavel]

I posted a WaPo article about him the other day on FB. He's a holistic cardiologist. I just..baffling.

[Fragile Bird]

There have been a number of interesting stories in the press in the past few weeks, with the measles outbreak linked to Disneyland (more than 100 cases now, 40 in children who did not go to Disneyland). The original linked cases were, of course, children who had never been vaccinated. It boggles the mind that parents who have made the decision not to vaccinate have the arrogance to then take their children to places where there are large numbers of children to infect.

I heard an interview with a US sociologist who did extensive interviews with parents who chose not to vaccinate their children. Anti-vaxxers apparently cross all political barriers, right and left. There are two groups of children typically left unvaccinated. On one side, there are children in poor families who may not have the resources to get their children vaccinated, typically black, single mother family units. People without good access to the health system.

On the other end of the spectrum the families are usually white, well-educated, earning over $80,000 a year, concerned, married parents who are linked by their general sense of distrust of the groups who are responsible for vaccinations: politicians, pharmaceutical companies, government authorities. They believe those groups are motivated by factors like profit, and only they, the parents, really care for their children. They see their children as being intrinsically perfect at birth, and that they are being asking to agree to an intervention that may have an unpredictable outcome. So when faced with the choice of asking to have their child vaccinated for a disease they have never seen against the risk of an adverse affect that they have heard is possible, they opt not to vaccinate. They are the people with the best access to the medical system in the country, and they don't trust it.

It may be part of the culture in the US where individual choice is seen to be so very important. Make the wrong choice for your child and you will be slammed hard.

Also crucial is the fact that they feel a core responsibility for the health of their own child, and not to other people's children, particularly because if something happens to their child they will be left with the responsibility of raising their child alone, without community support. And vaccination advertisement has been very directed towards protecting your own child, and not about protecting the community.

[Commodore]

the "individual choice" reasoning doesn't really apply in this instance

(1) we are talking about children, which we do not treat as autonomous. Parents can and should have a large degree of autonomy over them, but there are still limits.

(2) we are talking about contagion. Contagion is violence, and we don't allow people to exact violence on others.

This seems like a manufactured issue that will go away in a couple weeks. I'm skeptical there exists any widespread anti-vaccine movement other than in extreme religious/hippie enclaves that have always been around.