[BOOK AND SHOW SPOILERS] Has the show peaked?

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

No point arguing with this half-wit troll. It's only fun to show him being a hypocrite really.

From an outside objective view in my opinion you have not done this at all.

But instead you both are making poor arguments to how you feel/opinion. Non of this is cold clean fact except the possible numbers of viewers as I did not look into it I won't go there.

Now in my opinion the show has been sloppy. To name a few (to give credence to my opinion) Season 4 "we don't harm little girls in dorn" season 5 spends whole dorn arc on trying to kill a little girl. Season 3-4 Stannis has a side plot of bonding with his daughter (being super vague) Season 5 burns daughter. Season 3 "I'll never abandon you my Lord. Season 5 -fuck this shit going back to the wall- Season 5 Non of Jon's "better" -(I put that in quotes because that arguable too)- decisions was decided by him. Some examples would be sam came up with going to oldtown. Davos came up with the realms of men. Leaving Jon to look incompetent all so we can have episode 8 entertainment value. We'll sell you the whole seat but all you need is the EEEDGE!! BTW that was my favorite ep just for that reason. Tisk on me.

[TheLeviathan73]

From an outside objective view in my opinion you have not done this at all.

But instead you both are making poor arguments to how you feel/opinion. Non of this is cold clean fact except the possible numbers of viewers as I did not look into it I won't go there.

My point is to show he's a troll with no consistent viewpoint. Pretty sure I've done that.

The show has plenty of flaws and may well have peaked, but it's staying ridiculously popular for a premium channel show. That alone doesn't make it good or bad, but opinions are going to vary on that. And we all know that little saying about opinions, the problem is some people think that they have "logic" behind theirs that is indisputable when really it's not. Two people can have good arguments for two totally different perspectives on it, but to try and go any further than that realization is just going to create two people talking past each other.

What should be happening is people should be sharing and considering alternative perspectives, but there is no one right one that anyone need adopt.

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

My point is to show he's a troll with no consistent viewpoint. Pretty sure I've done that.

The show has plenty of flaws and may well have peaked, but it's staying ridiculously popular for a premium channel show. That alone doesn't make it good or bad, but opinions are going to vary on that. And we all know that little saying about opinions, the problem is some people think that they have "logic" behind theirs that is indisputable when really it's not. Two people can have good arguments for two totally different perspectives on it, but to try and go any further than that realization is just going to create two people talking past each other.

What should be happening is people should be sharing and considering alternative perspectives, but there is no one right one that anyone need adopt.

I just love this reply it's exactly what I was thinking or trying to say but said better. But I see we are on the same page.

[lancerman]

I've always maintained that it's fine to like or not like the show. Everything's subjective. But often you see arguments where people say this doesn't make sense. It's illogical. It's unearned. And then when you really ask why and present all the information on the table it really just ends up coming down to "I didn't like the way this turned out".

That's fine. But not everyone is going to dislike the way something went down just because you did or just because it happened differently in the book.

[El Guapo]

about those ratings...

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-season-5-to-surpass-20-million-viewers/#more-37613

HBO has announced that Game of Thrones Season 5 is set to exceed 20 million views, and with these huge totals, has broken their previous viewing records for the show.

Currently at 19.8 million views and including HBO linear, DVR, HBO On Demand and HBO GO/NOW, this season has trumped season 4’s record total of 19.1 million.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

about those ratings...

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-season-5-to-surpass-20-million-viewers/#more-37613

HBO has announced that Game of Thrones Season 5 is set to exceed 20 million views, and with these huge totals, has broken their previous viewing records for the show.

Currently at 19.8 million views and including HBO linear, DVR, HBO On Demand and HBO GO/NOW, this season has trumped season 4’s record total of 19.1 million.

I don't think the ratings can say much about if the show peaked or not. It truly depends on next year, no? This was certainly the year they had the most controversy and bad critics. I think the sixth season's opener can tell us more. But I don't think it's going to get higher.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

I've always maintained that it's fine to like or not like the show. Everything's subjective. But often you see arguments where people say this doesn't make sense. It's illogical. It's unearned. And then when you really ask why and present all the information on the table it really just ends up coming down to "I didn't like the way this turned out".

That's fine. But not everyone is going to dislike the way something went down just because you did or just because it happened differently in the book.

It's illogical that Sansa would accept avenging her family by marrying Ramsay Bolton. There's no explanation as to how she plans on doing it, and it makes even little sense that Ramsay, that has been flaying characters left and right, can somehow deceive the character that has said that "information is power" several times on the show, that being LF. Sansa's also technically married to Tyrion, and that apparently matters on the fourth season ("You'll be free to marry Robin after your husband dies." - Lysa Arryn, 4x05.) and yet it doesn't in the fifth season. Convenient, no?

Also, Roose tells that Ramsay's marriage with Sansa will solidify his domain on the North, yet there are no Northern Lords at the wedding, and the daughter of the kennel's master gets a front row seat next to "family". Sansa seems confident about sleeping with Ramsay in 5x04 ("I'll be a married woman when you return" - Sansa, 5x04), yet she seems scared and traumatized by the time of her wedding night, which can only be justified because they wanted her to be raped and Theon to see it.

There's no follow up to "Make him yours" that LF counsels the character to do. And isn't Sansa supposed to be smart? She apparently tells Myranda that she's going to steal Ramsay away, yet she fails to act confident in her wedding night, all in order to service the shock moment, even though she knows that she needs to make him hers. She also has no lockpicking abilities, yet is able to open the door to her bedroom. The same room that is unguarded, even though her husband keeps her locked up all day.

And I'm still waiting about how Sansa's going to avenge anyone by walking unarmed at Winterfell.

[lancerman]

It's illogical that Sansa would accept avenging her family by marrying Ramsay Bolton. There's no explanation as to how she plans on doing it, and it makes even little sense that Ramsay, that has been flaying characters left and right, can somehow deceive the character that has said that "information is power" several times on the show, that being LF. Sansa's also technically married to Tyrion, and that apparently matters on the fourth season ("You'll be free to marry Robin after your husband dies." - Lysa Arryn, 4x05.) and yet it doesn't in the fifth season. Convenient, no?

Also, Roose tells that Ramsay's marriage with Sansa will solidify his domain on the North, yet there are no Northern Lords at the wedding, and the daughter of the kennel's master gets a front row seat next to "family". Sansa seems confident about sleeping with Ramsay in 5x04 ("I'll be a married woman when you return" - Sansa, 5x04), yet she seems scared and traumatized by the time of her wedding night, which can only be justified because they wanted her to be raped and Theon to see it.

There's no follow up to "Make him yours" that LF counsels the character to do. And isn't Sansa supposed to be smart? She apparently tells Myranda that she's going to steal Ramsay away, yet she fails to act confident in her wedding night, all in order to service the shock moment, even though she knows that she needs to make him hers. She also has no lockpicking abilities, yet is able to open the door to her bedroom. The same room that is unguarded, even though her husband keeps her locked up all day.

And I'm still waiting about how Sansa's going to avenge anyone by walking unarmed at Winterfell.

None of that's illogical.

1. Everything we've seen that has to do with Sansa's relationship with LF is that she implicitly trusts him and gets in bad situations because of him and he usually ends up saving her to reaffirm her trust. This happened atleast twice in the show. LF has the same plan here. He puts her in a bad situation, he comes and saves her, and takes the North, she trusts him again.

2. You assume to crucial things. First that Ramsay's behavior is well known. The only people that know how bad Ramsay is in the shows are Theon, his two mistresses, maybe Roose, maybe a few Bolton soldiers. It's not an open secret like it is in the book. Second, you assume that if LF, that he actually cares at all about Sansa's safety. No matter what happens to Sansa he has an excuse to take the North. He wins in every scenario.

3. Northern lords not being at the Wedding doesn't mean the North doesn't know about the wedding. Everyone in Winterfell knows. Lady Mormont doesn't need to sail in to know that Sansa Stark married Ramsay Bolton.

4. Yeah Sansa acted like she wasn't afraid, until the moment happened. It's a phenomena that happens with a lot of people. It also doesn't help that Ramsay was a creep about it and basically made her step brother who she believed killed her other brothers watch her lose her virginity, not to mention the fact that Ramsay was extremely forceful. Remember Sansa doesn't know Ramsay. Sansa has an idealized view of things, like her wedding knight. A common theme with her is that she was raised with all these preconceptions of how her life might be, then a monster is usually the result and it ruins it for her. She is bethrothed to the prince who turns out to be a monster. She loves knights yet the two she interacts with most are the Hound and a drunk. She has her Winterfell Wedding to Ramsay Bolton and he bastardizes her wedding knight by forcing himself upon her and making one of her step brothers who betrayed her family watch. Very much in line with her character.

5. No Sansa isn't supposed to be smart. She never did anything smart without someone else (like LF) forcing her into it. I don't know where you got that idea. If your presumption was that she was this smart character who acted independently and always had things turn out the way she envisions them, you and I have very different understandings of this character. She is the exact opposite of that.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

None of that's illogical.

1. Everything we've seen that has to do with Sansa's relationship with LF is that she implicitly trusts him and gets in bad situations because of him and he usually ends up saving her to reaffirm her trust. This happened atleast twice in the show. LF has the same plan here. He puts her in a bad situation, he comes and saves her, and takes the North, she trusts him again.

2. You assume to crucial things. First that Ramsay's behavior is well known. The only people that know how bad Ramsay is in the shows are Theon, his two mistresses, maybe Roose, maybe a few Bolton soldiers. It's not an open secret like it is in the book. Second, you assume that if LF, that he actually cares at all about Sansa's safety. No matter what happens to Sansa he has an excuse to take the North. He wins in every scenario.

3. Northern lords not being at the Wedding doesn't mean the North doesn't know about the wedding. Everyone in Winterfell knows. Lady Mormont doesn't need to sail in to know that Sansa Stark married Ramsay Bolton.

4. Yeah Sansa acted like she wasn't afraid, until the moment happened. It's a phenomena that happens with a lot of people. It also doesn't help that Ramsay was a creep about it and basically made her step brother who she believed killed her other brothers watch her lose her virginity, not to mention the fact that Ramsay was extremely forceful. Remember Sansa doesn't know Ramsay. Sansa has an idealized view of things, like her wedding knight. A common theme with her is that she was raised with all these preconceptions of how her life might be, then a monster is usually the result and it ruins it for her. She is bethrothed to the prince who turns out to be a monster. She loves knights yet the two she interacts with most are the Hound and a drunk. She has her Winterfell Wedding to Ramsay Bolton and he bastardizes her wedding knight by forcing himself upon her and making one of her step brothers who betrayed her family watch. Very much in line with her character.

5. No Sansa isn't supposed to be smart. She never did anything smart without someone else (like LF) forcing her into it. I don't know where you got that idea. If your presumption was that she was this smart character who acted independently and always had things turn out the way she envisions them, you and I have very different understandings of this character. She is the exact opposite of that.

You failed to adress the Tyrion issue (Lysa Arryn quote included!), the revenge plan and the lockpicking abilities. Don't forget those.

1. That's false. Sansa tells LF in 4x08 that she does not trust him, but that she knows what he wants. According to the writers (David and Dan) she chooses the devil she knows, and SHE saves him. Then, she tells him back in 5x01 that she doesn't trust anyone, and he tells her the same.

2. It's been confirmed by Word of God (That is, the writers) that LF does care about Sansa and that he didn't knew about Ramsay. That's confirmed. Second, Ramsay has flayed in Moat Caitlin, the same castle that LF and Sansa passed, 63 soldiers, on the show. He also flayed a Lord and a Lady, according to himself.

3. I guess we'll agree to disagree. Part of the value of the wedding is that the Lords have to see that Lady Stark is marrying a Bolton. That's the entire point of it. Just saying that she is is not proof. This isn't Skype. They weren't broadcasting the wedding.

4. False again. The director has come out and said that Sansa's actually the opposite of what you just described, that she entered the room as a hardened woman, ready to do what was needed to get the North. The character herself has described that she doesn't trust anyone and that she doesn't trust in songs anymore. This is simply a misconception of the character they built. " This is a hardened woman making a choice and she sees this as the way to get back her homeland."

5. She sure is. Isn't she the one that manipulated the Vale Lords into supporting LF back in Episode 8, Season 4? Must I remind you? SHE saved LF. He never forced her into it. We sure have very different visions. I'm pretty sure we've seen different or you either willfully forget the show's own canon. It's even more interesting that you forgot it because LF himself asks her why she did what she did.

[lancerman]

You failed to adress the Tyrion issue, the revenge plan and the lockpicking abilities. Don't forget those.

1. That's false. Sansa tells LF in 4x08 that she does not trust him, but that she knows what he wants. According to the writers (David and Dan) she chooses the devil she knows, and SHE saves him. Then, she tells him back in 5x01 that she doesn't trust anyone, and he tells her the same.

2. It's been confirmed by Word of God (That is, the writers) that LF does care about Sansa and that he didn't knew about Ramsay. That's confirmed. Second, Ramsay has flayed in Moat Caitlin, the same castle that LF and Sansa passed, 63 soldiers, on the show. He also flayed a Lord and a Lady, according to himself.

3. I guess we'll agree to disagree. Part of the value of the wedding is that the Lords have to see that Lady Stark is marrying a Bolton. That's the entire point of it. Just saying that she is is not proof. This isn't Skype. They weren't broadcasting the wedding.

4. False again. The director has come out and said that Sansa's actually the opposite of what you just described, that she entered the room as a hardened woman, ready to do what was needed to get the North. The character herself has described that she doesn't trust anyone and that she doesn't trust in songs anymore. This is simply a misconception of the character they built. " This is a hardened woman making a choice and she sees this as the way to get back her homeland."

5. She sure is. Isn't she the one that manipulated the Vale Lords into supporting LF back in Episode 8, Season 4? Must I remind you? SHE saved LF. He never forced her into it. We sure have very different visions. I'm pretty sure we've seen different or you either willfully forget the show's own canon.

1. No you are wrong. LF brings Sansa to the Vale. Puts her at the mercy of Lysa. Kisses her, doing something that deliberately pisses of Lysa. Prompting Lysa to want her gone or dead. Because of the situation LF created, Sansa is in danger. Then LF kills Lysa, and she repays him. Do you really think there was no manipulation there? At best it was a calculated risk on the part of LF. But Sansa's life was just saved. Maybe she went with the "devil she knew". That was only because LF stacked the deck that way.

2. Does LF care about Sansa more than playing the game? He let a lot of bad things happen to her KL because he betrayed Eddard. Remember that? A lot of bad things happened to Catelyn too. He made Sansa a wanted person because he murdered Joffrey. He put her in danger from Lysa. The game has always taken precedence. He had no problem putting Sansa in bad situations before. He is taking a calculated risk that Ramsay needs Sansa alive and that whatever he might put her through, he won't kill her. Which is true. So most likely Sansa will be alive when he marches on the North. But in the off chance she isn't, LF doesn't have to worry about Cersie wanting her head.

3. Everyone in Winterfell knows and agrees that it's Sansa. Many of them would know Sansa just as well if not better than the Northern Lords. Word gets around. The common perception in Westeros is that Sansa is in Winterfell and married to Ramsay. That's all they really need.

4. Okay and hardened woman can still be made vulnerable if you put her in a bad enough situation. She wasn't freaking out or having a tantrum. The worst thing she did was moan in pain when Ramsay raped her. Which is to be expected. She still did it. She didn't protest Theon being there. She hid her feelings as much as she could, even though we knew she didn't like it. I really don't see the problem there. If she had a meltdown, okay maybe you have a point. But she didn't.

5. Lets agree to disagree. I don't think she manipulated anybody. LF put her in a dangerous situation. Saved her from it. She repayed him by lying about how her would be murderer died at the hands of LF. The deck was always stacked in LF's favor, she just went along with it. Sansa has never made one autonomous smart move this entire show.

Hell even if you want to disagree and say that she was making a calculated decision by helping LF. Well then she's still idiot because she helped LF after just hearing that he was responsible for the death of Jon Aryn (which started everything). It's embarrassingly stupid. Especially with stakes so low. She was surrounded by people loyal to her aunt and her cousin. She was in no immediate danger. And she put her trust in a guy whose been manipulating her the whole way.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Hell even if you want to disagree and say that she was making a calculated decision by helping LF. Well then she's still idiot because she helped LF after just hearing that he was responsible for the death of Jon Aryn (which started everything). It's embarrassingly stupid. Especially with stakes so low. She was surrounded by people loyal to her aunt and her cousin. She was in no immediate danger. And she put her trust in a guy whose been manipulating her the whole way.

Again, you failed to adress Lysa Arryn's quote, the Lockpicking abilites and the revenge plan.

And once again, you forget the show. Sansa did NOT hear anything of the sort on the show. She did on the books, though. And according to the show and it's own writers, Sansa doesn't know the Vale Lords. She trusts the Devil she knows. Have you ever watched an inside the episode segment? Your points seem awfully embarassing, especially considering you keep bringing them up as evidence. And in those, they also say Sansa had the power, so no manipulation plan LF had, I'm afraid.

1. No you are wrong. LF brings Sansa to the Vale. Puts her at the mercy of Lysa. Kisses her, doing something that deliberately pisses of Lysa. Prompting Lysa to want her gone or dead. Because of the situation LF created, Sansa is in danger. Then LF kills Lysa, and she repays him. Do you really think there was no manipulation there? At best it was a calculated risk on the part of LF. But Sansa's life was just saved. Maybe she went with the "devil she knew". That was only because LF stacked the deck that way.

2. Does LF care about Sansa more than playing the game? He let a lot of bad things happen to her KL because he betrayed Eddard. Remember that? A lot of bad things happened to Catelyn too. He made Sansa a wanted person because he murdered Joffrey. He put her in danger from Lysa. The game has always taken precedence. He had no problem putting Sansa in bad situations before. He is taking a calculated risk that Ramsay needs Sansa alive and that whatever he might put her through, he won't kill her. Which is true. So most likely Sansa will be alive when he marches on the North. But in the off chance she isn't, LF doesn't have to worry about Cersie wanting her head.

3. Everyone in Winterfell knows and agrees that it's Sansa. Many of them would know Sansa just as well if not better than the Northern Lords. Word gets around. The common perception in Westeros is that Sansa is in Winterfell and married to Ramsay. That's all they really need.

4. Okay and hardened woman can still be made vulnerable if you put her in a bad enough situation. She wasn't freaking out or having a tantrum. The worst thing she did was moan in pain when Ramsay raped her. Which is to be expected. She still did it. She didn't protest Theon being there. She hid her feelings as much as she could, even though we knew she didn't like it. I really don't see the problem there. If she had a meltdown, okay maybe you have a point. But she didn't.

5. Lets agree to disagree. I don't think she manipulated anybody. LF put her in a dangerous situation. Saved her from it. She repayed him by lying about how her would be murderer died at the hands of LF. The deck was always stacked in LF's favor, she just went along with it. Sansa has never made one autonomous smart move this entire show.

1. And again, it's false. Sansa went with the devil she knew because she didn't knew the Lords of the Vale, hence, it was safer to save LF. After all, she know what he wants, according to that episode. It wasn't a calculated risk on LF's part. I tend to bear no ill about you making this point, because It's how it plays out on the books - But it's not the same on the show. Sansa doesn't give her testimony guided by LF. For more information, look up the inside the episode segment about Episode 8, season 4.

2. He does not care about her more than the game, but he does care about her. You failed to adress the implausibility, according to the show's logic, of LF not knowing about Ramsay, considering his very public flayings. Aidan Gillen has outright said Sansa's the main thing for LF.

3. Who's at Winterfell, again? The servants? The same ones brought by Roose and Ramsay when they repopulated the castle after Ramsay killed everyone and burned it down at the end of the second season?

4. You changed your entire line of thought about the matter once the hardened woman quote came to mind. But nonetheless, Sansa's supposed to charm him. I don't think you can charm anyone by acting scared. The implausibility of the situation, according to the character they had in mind, made for a poor characterization. She moaned in pain and was clearly humiliated. I don't understand how to defend this one, to be honest. She never threw a tantrum, but it's of hard to do one when you're being raped, you know? What happened to the "make them yours?"

5. Again, disagreeing with the writers. You may think that, but the people who wrote that scene and that episode think otherwise. That's her autonomous smart decision. We should stop the discussion here, as you clearly don't even know what you're defending.

[A_Cornered_Wolf]

about those ratings...

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-season-5-to-surpass-20-million-viewers/#more-37613

HBO has announced that Game of Thrones Season 5 is set to exceed 20 million views, and with these huge totals, has broken their previous viewing records for the show.

Currently at 19.8 million views and including HBO linear, DVR, HBO On Demand and HBO GO/NOW, this season has trumped season 4’s record total of 19.1 million.

There is a methodological problem with comparing numbers from season 4 and 5. Season 5 numbers are influenced by the availability of HBO GO/NOW which was just put into service recently. It represents an added avenue for viewers to access the show, but more importantly an artificial bump as many of those viewers may have been watching the show via non-trackable means. The total number of viewers, including those watching via non-trackable means, could be lower than season 4 (and there is no good way to know) but still appear higher because some of the demographic was shifted into the trackable sample.

Long story short, the addition of HBO GO/NOW makes comparing popularity between the two seasons inaccurate, but clearly the show is still doing fine.

[Marcus Agrippa]

I'll watch episode 1 of season 6. Honestly, peter dinklage is starting to wear thin on my nevers. I have never beeen able to stay with a series for over 4 seasons when the show is still going on. I am better at binge watching after the show is over. CHaracters wear thin on me after a while- and where I can ignore emilia clark since I hardly watch the essos scenes to begin with... peter dinklage and lena have far too much screen time and it started to drive me crazy.

[lancerman]

There is a methodological problem with comparing numbers from season 4 and 5. Season 5 numbers are influenced by the availability of HBO GO/NOW which was just put into service recently. It represents an added avenue for viewers to access the show, but more importantly an artificial bump as many of those viewers may have been watching the show via non-trackable means. The total number of viewers, including those watching via non-trackable means, could be lower than season 4 (and there is no good way to know) but still appear higher because some of the demographic was shifted into the trackable sample.

Long story short, the addition of HBO GO/NOW makes comparing popularity between the two seasons inaccurate, but clearly the show is still doing fine.

It's a double edged sword tbh. Part of it is that the show does have a new advantage that the other seasons didn't. Part of it is that there are actually viewers out there that are taking advantage of those new resources and there are probably even more that still want to watch the show.

Either way it's a big deal. Those are Sunday Night Football type numbers for each episode when you factor in everything. It will go down as one of the most successful shows for it's generation.

[A_Cornered_Wolf]

It's a double edged sword tbh. Part of it is that the show does have a new advantage that the other seasons didn't. Part of it is that there are actually viewers out there that are taking advantage of those new resources and there are probably even more that still want to watch the show.

Either way it's a big deal. Those are Sunday Night Football type numbers for each episode when you factor in everything. It will go down as one of the most successful shows for it's generation.

I think your bias is showing. It really isn't a double edged sword. It is highly unlikely that the previous necessity to be a cable subscriber was a barrier to entry for watching the show if people wanted to. It was only a barrier to tracking the fact they were watching it (they were likely watching pirated, waiting for the DVD boxset, watching at a friends house, etc. previous to HBONOW). By season 4-5 of a show with the media saturation level of GoT it is unlikely to bring in many fresh viewers simply because after 2-3 years of the media blitz people either adopt or don't.

Most successful show of it's generation isn't something you can really even assert until it is finished. The BSG reboot looked to be the most critically acclaimed show for the first two seasons, and then a weak finish put it solidly in the middle of the tier of good shows for its timeframe.

[lancerman]

I think your bias is showing. It really isn't a double edged sword. It is highly unlikely that the previous necessity to be a cable subscriber was a barrier to entry for watching the show if people wanted to. It was only a barrier to tracking the fact they were watching it (they were likely watching pirated, waiting for the DVD boxset, watching at a friends house, etc. previous to HBONOW). By season 4-5 of a show with the media saturation level of GoT it is unlikely to bring in many fresh viewers simply because after 2-3 years of the media blitz people either adopt or don't.

Most successful show of it's generation isn't something you can really even assert until it is finished. The BSG reboot looked to be the most critically acclaimed show for the first two seasons, and then a weak finish put it solidly in the middle of the tier of good shows for its timeframe.

Well here is the problem with that statement. Game of Thrones is the most pirated show on television. A lot of that has to do with accessibility of HBO. If every person with a television got GOT on sunday nights how many more people would actually watch it?

Cause it's very clear now that by adding one more level of accessibility they expanded their audience. And they still have record breaking piracy. So what is peaking for this show? Because we don't even really know how many people actually watch the show to begin with. It's likely a lot higher than 20 million. And other shows, for instance Breaking Bad, have actually seen huge increases in later seasons and lots of people start watching shows late. I know people that for them, season 5 was there first live season, then I know people that are just catching up on season 5 right now because they were too busy with work.

The point is, the more accessible a show is, the more you get a metric for who WILL watch it if they have the opportunity. That gives you a better idea of peaking. Lets be fair, maybe it's pretty much peaked for people that will strictly only watch it on HBO proper. It hasn't peaked when you create other options. And we know that there is still an untapped group of people pirating the show. Those are factors you have to consider.

[Le Cygne]

I don't think the ratings can say much about if the show peaked or not. It truly depends on next year, no? This was certainly the year they had the most controversy and bad critics. I think the sixth season's opener can tell us more. But I don't think it's going to get higher.

Agreed, sure looks like it leveled off, and ended on a bad note. Also no more books, not that they were following them anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones#cite_ref-198

[TheKitttenGuard]

Agreed, sure looks like it leveled off, and ended on a bad note. Also no more books, not that they were following them anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones#cite_ref-198

How is the season finale being the highest rated episode of the series a bad note? The rating was after all the controveries. It will say alot if the show was able to bring in all new audiences plus if all the people who stated they would of stop watching after Sansa's rape to end with its highest rating ever.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

How is the season finale being the highest rated episode of the series a bad note? The rating was after all the controveries. It will say alot if the show was able to bring in all new audiences plus if all the people who stated they would of stop watching after Sansa's rape to end with its highest rating ever.

The episode in itself ended on a bad note. It was just a bad episode. I don't really feel invested to watch next season, which is why I will not.

[TheKitttenGuard]

The episode in itself ended on a bad note. It was just a bad episode. I don't really feel invested to watch next season, which is why I will not.

I thought it was maybe the best season finale they did even though it had a lot of cliff hangers. I thought the reaction with Jon Snow's stabbing was near perfect and am looking forward to next year.