Slaughterhouse Mexico - US failure

[Galactus]

Other than the Mexican-American War, has the U.S. tried to meddle or threaten Mexico?

I mean, Mexico is where Trotsky, a Russian communist, felt safe enough to hang out.

I'm fairly sure the US has actually invaded Mexico more than any other country.

[all swedes are racist]

Spring break twenty fifteen baby yeah whaaaoooooh

[Spring Bass]

We're the main destination for drug traffic through Mexico, but we aren't the reason they have a horrifically corrupt and incompetent police force, among other major problems.

[Larry of the Lawn]

We're the main destination for drug traffic through Mexico, but we aren't the reason they have a horrifically corrupt and incompetent police force, among other major problems.

I know it's hard to pin down one exact cause, but I think the drug situation in the US is a pretty large factor in the corruption of Mexico's police and government. The cartels pump so much money into the police to keep their drugs flowing smoothly.

[BloodRider]

I guess in 1916 when we sent the army into Mexico to chase Poncho Villa.

Wern't they chasing him from a cross border raid?

I mean, really if Mexico wants to blame their issues on another country, Austria and Germany should probably come higher on the list than the US.

EDIT: One could argue that the whole reason the US became a superpower is because the Germans threw Mexico under the bus when they were getting their ass handed to them in WWI. Come to think of it, lets add the Brits to that list as well.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

Wern't they chasing him from a cross border raid?

I mean, really if Mexico wants to blame their issues on another country, Austria and Germany should probably come higher on the list than the US.

Yeah he crossed into Columbus, New Mexico. Eventually the government of Mexico got sick of them being there.

[The Fallen]

I'm fairly sure the US has actually invaded Mexico more than any other country.

From my quick search the U.S. has invaded Mexico twice. During the Mexican-American War, where they reached Mexico City and briefly thought about annexing all of Mexico. They decided against it because the culture and language was too different.

Then again when they went looking for Pancho Villa, after he had killed some Americans in a cross-border raid. They never did find him and then left.

So that's twice. Other than Iraq (which we invaded twice) I can't think of any other countries that the U.S. has invaded more than twice. So Mexico ties with Iraq for country that the U.S. has invaded the most.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampico_Affair

[Shryke]

From my quick search the U.S. has invaded Mexico twice. During the Mexican-American War, where they reached Mexico City and briefly thought about annexing all of Mexico. They decided against it because the culture and language was too different.

Then again when they went looking for Pancho Villa, after he had killed some Americans in a cross-border raid. They never did find him and then left.

So that's twice. Other than Iraq (which we invaded twice) I can't think of any other countries that the U.S. has invaded more than twice. So Mexico ties with Iraq for country that the U.S. has invaded the most.

I thinking Galactus might be talking about the filibustering as well.

[The Fallen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampico_Affair

I had read about that, thought it was part of the Pancho Villa escapade. So we're up to three, with a couple of threats thrown in for good measure.

By the way, what a dick move by Pres. Wilson, sending in troops over a 21-gun salute.

I wonder how many times we've invaded Canada?

[The Fallen]

I thinking Galactus might be talking about the filibustering as well.

I don't follow. Threats and such?

[Ramsay Gimp]

I've not read it yet, but it's partly about the drug war and partly about how the cause of addiction is probably both not the more conventional conservative view that its hedonism and lack of morals nor is it the more liberal view that it's a chronic, relapsing brain disease over which the afflicted have no control.* I am very sympathetic to that view.

So what is it, then? Other than the obvious answer that drugs are fun and people like fun

[The guy from the Vale]

I had read about that, thought it was part of the Pancho Villa escapade. So we're up to three, with a couple of threats thrown in for good measure.

By the way, what a dick move by Pres. Wilson, sending in troops over a 21-gun salute.

I wonder how many times we've invaded Canada?

Definitely during American Revolution and the War of 1812. Also, there were many many boundary disputes, the most prominent one being the Oregon Territory dispute.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Definitely during American Revolution and the War of 1812. Also, there were many many boundary disputes, the most prominent one being the Oregon Territory dispute.

The most prominent was actually the one depicted in Canadian Bacon. Sadly, it was covered up by Uncle Sam.

[Arakan]

Maybe I am a naive European but let me ask one thing: isn't it true that the US is THE main endcustomer destination for all the drugs? How can one be not be responsible when one is the demand? Without demand there is no supply, and thus no drug war in Mexico...

Besides that...the US has basically only two neighboring countries and in one of them we can witness for almost a decade now a massive humanitarian crisis, bloodshed and a failure of most public institutions. How is it that this is none of your concern (internal affair) when the same people in American policy are so eager to interfere in other countries far away?

I dont understand it, please enlighten me.

That's like saying from a German pov: hey in the Czech republic a massive drug war kills ten thousands of people every year but not my business. A bag of rice was stolen in Sri Lanka? Yeah that's my business.

The US has influence. Why dont use it to help your immediate neighbor?

[Arakan]

For those who are interested I can only reconmend to have a look through the 2012 UN World drug report.

http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/WDR2012/WDR_2012_web_small.pdf

Another interesting statistics: apparently in 2012 there were more than 40,000 drug-related deaths in the US, more than no. 2 through 10 combined.

And people are really asking what the US has to do with the fucked-up situation in Mexico. The US should accept its responsibility.

[Alarich]

Well, Arakan, there are other Germans on this board and from my German POV, if there are two countries neighbouring the US and one is a prosperous democracy and the other a den of corruption in a de-facto state of civil war, it looks like the reasons for this are not (first and foremost) the evil US.

We can talk about how the war on drugs does more harm than good, but let's not pretend that the Mexican state - despite having all the necessary means at its disposition - is not only unable to protect its citizens from the cartel violence but also unwilling and in many cases actively participating via corrupt officials.

[Neumond]

I think the real questions might be: Is the US able to do something about it? Should the US do something about it?

No one can change the past. But we can build a better future.

[Arakan]

We can talk about how the war on drugs does more harm than good, but let's not pretend that the Mexican state - despite having all the necessary means at its disposition - is not only unable to protect its citizens from the cartel violence but also unwilling and in many cases actively participating via corrupt officials.

Didnt I basically write that Mexico is a failed state?

There are two dimensions of US responsibility: a concrete one (US as biggest drug consumer in the world) and a metaphysical one.

For a country whose foreign policy has been defined under many administrations by fighting for freedom, justice and democracy (a truly messianic foreign policy isnt it :)), isnt it a bit strange to interfere everywhere in the world but basically ignoring the slaughterhouse south to its border? Why does someone like McCain travel thousands of miles to show support for anti-corruption protesters? Why doesnt he just travel to Mexico City? Enough corruption ongoing there

[Altherion]

For a country whose foreign policy has been defined under many administrations by fighting for freedom, justice and democracy (a truly messianic foreign policy isnt it :)), isnt it a bit strange to interfere everywhere in the world but basically ignoring the slaughterhouse south to its border? Why does someone like McCain travel thousands of miles to show support for anti-corruption protesters? Why doesnt he just travel to Mexico City? Enough corruption ongoing there

I assure you, our level of interference in Mexico is not significantly lower than it is for anywhere else in the world. You do not hear about it much because we've been interfering there for so long that they've gotten good at neutralizing such interference.