Why i think Stannis wrote the Pink Letter

[Lady Blizzardborn]

How did Jon know about Reek escaping?

UtherSnow covered that in his post. Jon did get a letter from Winterfell, and that one contained the information about Reek and fArya escaping.

[Balerion's Whiskers]

The fact that in the Theon chapter the exact wording was used by Theon

"He wants his bride back, he wants his Reek back"

Makes me think that Theon has some part in the wording of the letter...I think that it is a purposely placed GRRM Easter Egg.

Stannis' involvement is puzzling...and it could be that the first raven flew to Winterfell with a note saying "we have your bride and we have your Reek" since ravens were there that knew to fly to Winterfell and Ramsey sent the a second raven to the Wall with the Pink Letter as a reply. I don't have an explaniation....but I think that Theon is the key.

[Mikkel]

Using "Reek" as a descriptor for Theon is not something Stannis would do. He's all about correctly labeling things (and people), see his insistence that Jaime be called Ser Jaime the Kingslayer or the removal of "beloved" when describing Robert.

I mean okay if you are willing to think this kind of thing is Stannis' deal in the first place I guess this is not much of an additional stumbling block, but if so I've thoroughly misread the character.

[Balerion's Whiskers]

It doesn't have a 'Stannis feel' about it, agreed...that's what is puzzling. That's why I mentioned that there might have been an original note from Stannis to Ramsey and that Theon contributed to its wording...Stannis would have never used 'Reek' on his own, but with Theon's prompting, he may have.

It really doesn't seem like Stannis to listen to Theon either.

It is just curious that the same words were used by Theon when he was with Stannis.

[Mikkel]

It is just curious that the same words were used by Theon when he was with Stannis.

Well it's noteworthy, I agree. From a meta perspective, I suspect it's simply GRRM - he does have a tendency to repeat phrases in his writing (usually intentionally though).

If there is a connection, I think the common denominator is Ramsay, not Theon: Ramsay uses the phrase, so Theon knows it, and uses it (he may be slightly on the mend but he's still very, very damaged). Ramsay writes the same phrase in his letter, because that's how he rolls.

That's the simplest explanation, and also (IMO) the most likely one.

I think there's shenanigans with the Pink letter, but I don't think the author of the letter is where it's at, it's in the contents.

[Snark_Tamer]

I find it much more compelling that Stannis used the Karstark ravens, which only fly to Winterfell, and that Arnolf had used to send Roose a map in a prior chapter, to send Winterfell misinformation. Ramsay, when writing the Pink Letter, is basing it off the inaccurate information he received from Stannis. The 'Stannis secretly wrote it' theory is too speculative, is contrary to how Stannis has acted towards his allies in the past, and doesn't make much sense for Stannis to do.

This is what I believe, too--that the pink letter is FULL of misinformation planted by Stannis, but that Stannis planted it with Ramsey and then Ramsey wrote the letter, so the letter includes information from both of them.

[TeethGrinder]

It was Mance IMO.

Stannis and Theon wrote the pink letter , pretty obvious if you read theons sample chapter .

The didn't do it alone and I guess mance helped them out in some ways but I think most of it is from theon and stannis .

I will try break it down to who would know what .

''Your false king is dead'' - could be a few people including theon mance and stannis

''I have his magic sword , tell his red whore'' - stannis would know these details aswell as mance

''You told the wolrd you burned the King beyond the wall'' - mance would know these details but its debateable if stannis knew.

''if you want mance rayder back come get him , hes in a cage for all the north to see , proof of your lies ,the cage is cold , but I have made him a cloak of the six spearwives who came with him'' - theon knows about mance and his spearwives , and theon knows he likes to flay

''I want his wildling princess , I want his little prince , the wildling babe '' - mance and stannis would know.

''I want my reek'' - theon and mace would know .

'' I want my wife back '' stannis mance and theon know shes escaped.

next up I would like to provide textual support of my claim .

''lord ramsey will not be far behind them. He wants his bride back , he wants his reek'' - convenient how theons line ends up part of the letter when he is engaging in conversation with stannis .

The dreadfort master is there with stannis also and we know jon and stannis has a route of communication because of the letter with the black seal which Is clearly a letter from jon snow warning of the karstark treachery .

Note the one name mentioned in the letter. Mance.

It was either him or Ramsay himself. The whole letter is just so unStannis, could you just imagine him sitting and drafting that thing with a writer? He had enough issues with how letters from him were written, let alone one impersonating the biggest psychopath in Westeros.

It strikes me as something Mance to do. And there's obviously more to his plan than just rescuing Arya. He's a significant character who's probably got his own agenda that we're not even aware of.

[Balerion's Whiskers]

I agree that the actual Pink Letter that Jon received wasn't written by Stannis, but I do think that there was information that was only known at his camp that ended up in it. I do think that there was more to Mance's plan than rescuing fArya and I do think it is odd that Ramsey didn't include some skin with it, since that seems to be his trademark. The author mentions that the spearwives were flayed...it seems logical that he would delight in sending some skin along to prove it.

The Karstark ravens may have been used to carry information to Winterfell that Stannis' group wanted them to have. They were prominently mentioned for more than just rooting out the turncloaks.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Someone on another thread had this amazing idea that Stannis, Mance, and Theon all got drunk and wrote the thing together. It was hilarious.

My pick for who wrote the letter is Mance.

Have to agree that it's not something Stannis would think of. On the other hand, Asha is there, and she might think of something like that.

Come to think of it...is there any reason to suspect Asha of having written and sent the letter?

[Tellus Explorer]

I wander what Renly would have done if he defeated Stannis and captured him.

Stayed with his wife, ruling the realm better than Robert had, with Loras keeping his bedding warm. :D

[The Mother of The Others]

Yeah Stannis frequently writes the letter. Almost as often as Ramsay writes it.

Stannis is a character characterized by his own 'mental rigidity'.

Something as manipulative and out of the box as sending a forged email is well beyond the scope of his own imagination.

I would only believe him the author of the letter if he had somebody else pushing him to do such thing. But right now all his counsellors are far away from him.

That's what he finally had time to do as he was freezing in his tent: it was time to use his imagination, with desperation being the thing pushing him to open up the playbook.

Well, I forget all the facts in the time in between these letter writing topics. So it may not be him. But then again it also might be him. That's a good place to take a break in the investigation. Later.

[The Bastard of Walton]

I think this is simply what it seems to be & that Ramsey sent it. That doesn't mean I believe everything in the letter is true, just that Ramsey sent it.

[Monctonvike]

Stannis is a character characterized by his own 'mental rigidity'.

Something as manipulative and out of the box as sending a forged email is well beyond the scope of his own imagination.

I would only believe him the author of the letter if he had somebody else pushing him to do such thing. But right now all his counsellors are far away from him.

:agree:

To add to that, Stannis is in his greates danger yet. He is without any council at all.

[WTF's a Lommy]

I always thought Stannis wrote the letter. He has the most to gain and why would Mance or Ramsey want Stannis's wife, daughter, and Melesandra?

[The Drunkard]

Ramsay would want Shireen for the same reason Robert wanted Viserys and Daenerys.

[RedShirt47]

This is what I believe, too--that the pink letter is FULL of misinformation planted by Stannis, but that Stannis planted it with Ramsey and then Ramsey wrote the letter, so the letter includes information from both of them.

I agree.

Did Theon know about Mance and the Spearwives? I know he spoke with one of them during the escape but can't remember how much detail he got. The letter knows exactly how many spearwives there were and their mission.

I think Ramsey must have Mance in his flayhouse. This could not be misinformed by Stannis using a Karstark raven.

So I agree that the author of the pink letter is not the macguffin here, it's the contents.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I agree.

Did Theon know about Mance and the Spearwives? I know he spoke with one of them during the escape but can't remember how much detail he got. The letter knows exactly how many spearwives there were and their mission.

I think Ramsey must have Mance in his flayhouse. This could not be misinformed by Stannis using a Karstark raven.

So I agree that the author of the pink letter is not the macguffin here, it's the contents.

Or Stannis knew all along about Mance not being burned. I'm not saying Mel told him, but Stannis is a smart guy--moreso than characters in the series usually give him credit for. He would also have a good idea who Mel would have sent leading a group of spearwives (exact number courtesy of Theon, description of "Bael" as well) and can pose as a singer. From there it's a short step to the why.

[bemused]

Theon knows how many washerwomen were with Abel .The spearwives referred to "kneelers" in Theon's presence .. and Squirrel told Theon outright she'd climbed back and forth across the Wall a number of times.

Stannis has always known Mance is alive. He always saw the value in keeping Mance alive - Mel just gave him the means.. Stannis has had long conversations with Mance and may even know what alias he used in the past when he masqueraded as a singer. ( We know Mance is actually not a raider, yet has crossed the Wall "half a hundred times". So "Abel" has been his regular way of keeping up to date with developments south of the Wall.)

I think Stannis wrote a letter to Jon.. He used both Karstark's ravens , one to send misinformation to Winterfell, one to let Jon know was sending Arya (and Reek) to him - and most importantly, that Ramsay would be following after them. There is good reason in the TWoW Theon chapter for us to suspect those ravens could be flown to Castle Black.

Way back in AGoT, speaking of Mormont's raven, Aemon tells Jon ,“He is a rare bird,” And from the Theon chapter

"

A maester's raven flies to one place, and one place only. Is that correct?" ... The maester mopped sweat from his brow with his sleeve. "N-not entirely, Your Grace. Most, yes. Some few can be taught to fly between two castles. Such birds are greatly prized. And once in a very great while, we find a raven who can learn the names of three or four or five castles, and fly to each upon command. Birds as clever as that come along only once in a hundred years."

..So "birds as clever as that" would be rare.

These birds are rare in the same way Mormont's raven is rare, and thus capable of making the trip to CB. Stannis gambles on this.

I don't quite agree that the author is unimportant. I do think that to Jon, what matters is what truth he finds in the letter and what (if anything) he can to do about it. The most urgent truth is that Ramsay is likely to attack CB from the undefended south, seeking to retrieve his bride and his Reek, and that Mance is captive in WF.

I said I think Stannis wrote "a" letter. In this, he had to disguise himself as Ramsay as a precaution - in case the bird actually flew to WF ( He has a maester who would know ramsay's signature well and Asha, who has recieved a letter from Ramsay to verify his work, if Stannis has not seen the signature before himself.).

But I think Stannis' letter was intercepted by the conspirators at the wall, led by Thorne ( who is present, but off-page). The letter is rewritten (the signature copied) to include what the conspirators want .. Jon to be made to share responsibility for sparing Mance , all of Stannis' personnel to leave the Wall, the wildlings to rush off, willy-nilly, after Mance.. Jon to rush off taking NW men (supposedly to attack WF) ... All of this would back up their claims against Jon and make their assassination of him seem forgiveable. ... and this becomes "the" letter Jon recieves.

Stannis is not attempting to get Jon to WF, he wants Jon at the wall (as we've seen in his letter to Jon from Deepwood Motte) and he wants him to have a chance to defend CB from Ramsay.

I've given the following rough breakdown of how I think the two letters might differ in a couple of threads before , but I'll paste it here.

I think Stannis would have written something like this :

Your false king is dead, He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red witch.

Your false king lied. He told the world he burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead he sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.I will have my bride back.

I have Mance Rayder in a cage for all the north to see.The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.

I want my bride back and I want my Reek. ( and maybe..) Do not keep them from me.

(* Optional : Your false king’s friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell...

and... Keep them from me, and I will cut out your heart and eat it. )

And here is what we know Jon received, with proposed forged additions and changes marked in red:

Bastard

Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.

Your false king’s friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.

I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.

I want my bride back. I want the false king’s queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want his wildling princess.

I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard’s heart and eat it.

The one character who has repeatedly tried to goad Jon into an emotional response is Thorne (and he's had some success with it). .. Mance's use of "bastard", for example, differs in that it seems founded in sarcasm over Jon's ..“Did you see where they put the bastard?” .. and the late Slynt's diatribes, .. while fed by Thorne, were full of false righteous indignation.... given more to impress others, than goad Jon (I will not suffer such-and-such.. etc). The Boltons don't know Jon and would have no reason to think he'd be certain to respond to such baiting. He didn't have the reputation of being a hothead while growing up at WF.

For what I've called the optional lines, I don't think Stannis would claim " Your false king's friends are dead, etc." , which would seem to refer to the clans (but it wouldn't change much if he did use it)... From the conspirator's point of view, it might help to excuse the conspirators and to turn the clans against Jon (alive or dead), since Jon recommended Stannis try to enlist them.

I don't know, either, that Stannis would have made the threat about cutting out and eating Jon's heart because apart from inserting "bastard's heart", it's a fairly common form of (usually) empty threat, used for emphasis ... like Cotter Pyke's, after the election - “Lord Snow,” said Cotter Pyke, “if you muck this up, I’m going to rip your liver out and eat it raw with onions.”

[Sword of the Morgan]

Stannis telling Massey to ignore any rumors of is death he might hear makes me think Stannis is the one who wrote the letter, simply to get Jon to come to Winterfell so he could garner loyalty from the northern lords.

[Clegane'sPup]

If Ramsey wrote the pink/bastard letter it means that Stannis has been defeated.

Done.

There will be no battle for WF. Boltons won.

End.

BUT if Ramsey won, why did Ramsey not find Reek in Stannis' camp and why does he assume that Jon has Reek? Why would Ramsey think that Jon had ReeK?

I am asking.