Thinking about not watching Season 5 (possible spoilers)

[Dynas]

I don't mind the omission of stuff from book 4&5 and IS necessary to keep the pacing of the show up. I would watch with the omissions.

However, I would NOT watch if they include Book 6 stuff which appears likely in SANSA and ARYA and possibly TYRION story lines. I don't hate the shows for changing things do agree that the show made GoT as big as it is. I did read the books before the show as well.

I wish D&D would post something that tells us for certain if S5 will have Book 6 content in it. I don't need details, just a simple acknowledgement (or not) of if they are actually going to pass Martin at this point.

Am I alone here on this train of thought?

[Roose is Azor Ahai]

Oh no, how will Westeros be destroyed with 2 wars instead of 3?

Really, any 'fight' between Dany and fAegon will be inconsequential because it will be wedged between the Wot5K and the WftD. Westeros is already destroyed...they don't need Dany to beat this guy with a sellsword company to put her on the throne.

So yeah, I don't really see why fAegon is necessary at all.

No, it won't. You seem to assume Dany gets the throne. GRRM has confirmed there will be second Dance of Dragons, which is propably fAegon vs Daenerys. One dragon propably dies and fAegon dies. That doesn't mean fAegon was unnecessary for plot. He was not, especially if one of dragons dies during it, maybe also Dany herself. I am saying that D&D cut fAegon because they don't have time for another war. You responsed with "Oh no, how will Westeros be destroyed with 2 wars instead of 3". I never said anything about that. I said they don't have time for another war. I don't even care that fAegon and Griff are cut, I'm only mad at possibly Euron.

So lets think this way: fAegon and Daenerys both die during Dance of Dragons II, along with dragons Rhaegal and Drogon. Viserion flees to Wall and becomes Jon's dragon and dies in battle agains the Others. Conclusion of war: Deaths of fAegon, Dany, Drogon and Rhaegal. The show could have Dany fight against some other people (Euron). Honestly I don't know who Dany'll fight in the show. It's just that there won't be ideal fairytale ending with three dragons with their riders burning down the Others. These dragons are here to kill each other.

Saying fAegon is unnecessary to plot because he dies is like saying Robb is unnecessary for plot since he died. Have you read the two/possibly three unfinished books? Neither have I. We do not know if fAegon is unnecessary or not until we have read the last page of ADoS. His actions might change something for Cersei, Jaime, Dorne, Riverlands, Mannis, Jon, Dany.

[Roose is Azor Ahai]

I don't mind the omission of stuff from book 4&5 and IS necessary to keep the pacing of the show up. I would watch with the omissions.

However, I would NOT watch if they include Book 6 stuff which appears likely in SANSA and ARYA and possibly TYRION story lines. I don't hate the shows for changing things do agree that the show made GoT as big as it is. I did read the books before the show as well.

I wish D&D would post something that tells us for certain if S5 will have Book 6 content in it. I don't need details, just a simple acknowledgement (or not) of if they are actually going to pass Martin at this point.

Am I alone here on this train of thought?

No.

[Dragon in the North]

I don't mind the omission of stuff from book 4&5 and IS necessary to keep the pacing of the show up. I would watch with the omissions.

However, I would NOT watch if they include Book 6 stuff which appears likely in SANSA and ARYA and possibly TYRION story lines. I don't hate the shows for changing things do agree that the show made GoT as big as it is. I did read the books before the show as well.

I wish D&D would post something that tells us for certain if S5 will have Book 6 content in it. I don't need details, just a simple acknowledgement (or not) of if they are actually going to pass Martin at this point.

Am I alone here on this train of thought?

Well, it's inevitable that the show will spoil the books eventually. If you're worried about spoilers, it might be a good idea to stop watching now anyway, just in case.

[sj4iy]

No, it won't. You seem to assume Dany gets the throne. GRRM has confirmed there will be second Dance of Dragons, which is propably fAegon vs Daenerys. One dragon propably dies and fAegon dies. That doesn't mean fAegon was unnecessary for plot. He was not, especially if one of dragons dies during it, maybe also Dany herself. I am saying that D&D cut fAegon because they don't have time for another war. You responsed with "Oh no, how will Westeros be destroyed with 2 wars instead of 3". I never said anything about that. I said they don't have time for another war. I don't even care that fAegon and Griff are cut, I'm only mad at possibly Euron.

So lets think this way: fAegon and Daenerys both die during Dance of Dragons II, along with dragons Rhaegal and Drogon. Viserion flees to Wall and becomes Jon's dragon and dies in battle agains the Others. Conclusion of war: Deaths of fAegon, Dany, Drogon and Rhaegal. The show could have Dany fight against some other people (Euron). Honestly I don't know who Dany'll fight in the show. It's just that there won't be ideal fairytale ending with three dragons with their riders burning down the Others. These dragons are here to kill each other.

Saying fAegon is unnecessary to plot because he dies is like saying Robb is unnecessary for plot since he died. Have you read the two/possibly three unfinished books? Neither have I. We do not know if fAegon is unnecessary or not until we have read the last page of ADoS. His actions might change something for Cersei, Jaime, Dorne, Riverlands, Mannis, Jon, Dany.

It was just a guess...I'm not assuming anything at this point.

But I've yet to see any reason that Aegon is necessary to the tv show. Really, I've yet to see why he's necessary to the book story, either...he came in too late in the story to make any real impact, and everything he does is easily pushed off to someone else or removed entirely.

My point was that the second Dance of the Dragons isn't necessary to the story, even if it is what leads to Dany coming back to Westeros or fighting him or whatever the hell she ends up doing. She can do all of that without a second dance.

And I don't need to read the last 2 books to know who is a main character and who isn't. Main characters are there from the beginning or nearly the beginning. They don't show up in book 5 through other characters' POVs.

I like the books, but I'm not about to defend Martin for what he did to the last books. Just because something is written in the books doesn't mean it's important. I like Manderly, and I like his plot, but that doesn't mean I EXPECT it in the show...because I don't. And his absence sure as hell won't ruin the show for me.

[HousePotterz]

I've been told that Season 5 of Game of Thrones will have many differences from the books. That's not too much of an issue for me but it's the number of omissions of things from the books that bother me. There are still 3 plot events that happened in book 3 that were not featured in Season 4 and the sources are giving ZERO hints that they will happen and in fact suggest they won't.

Something very important happened in book 3 on the Iron Islands that was not featured in Season 4. There are in fact clues that suggest that they do not intend to visit the Iron Islands in Season 5. Also MY favorite character that first appears in book 5 if the rumors are true will also be omitted from the show.

These omissions are in my mind intolerable and I might not watch Season 5. You might gasp at the idea, but there you go.Of course all of this is speculation as we have not seen Season 5 yet, but the rumors and official announcements STRONGLY suggest these things I talk of will be omitted.

Maybe I'll watch the series at a later date if I'm proven wrong.

Best wishes on remaining spoiler free until 2016 (provided Winds of Winter comes out by then, which is no safe bet), and then AGAIN from 2016 to...spitballing here...2022 when ADoS comes out. If it ever does.

I find it very surprising that anyone would not watch this coming season because of the omission of the Iron Islands subplot...even if it contained their favorite character. It genuinely surprises me that THAT storyline could usurp those of all the other established characters at the end of ASoS. What will you do if it turns out that the Iron Islands subplot just wasn't all that crucial to the Song of Ice and Fire? It's possible that even knowing about it's omission this season is already a spoiler of sorts.

You're definitely picking the more difficult of the two options that are on the table since we now know Georgey won't finish Winds before Season 5. I hope you have more willpower than I do, because I couldn't walk around knowing the story was progressing.

[shadow282]

Do you realise that by saying the IB is "dumb" and it "dumbs" the plot you're kinda a bit insulting the guy who created them, right?

Not really. Criticizing the work =/= to criticizing the author.

No, no, we completely misunderstood each other. I thought you were addressing the poster that said IB are stupid, and I said you expect too much of him, because he, the poster shadow282, doesn't look like someone who's too interested in anything that isn't shallow D&D fanboyism. But you were obviously addressing me, because, presumably, you thought I was the one saying IB culture is stupid, which was not the case at all.

For the record, IB and their culture look pretty realistic, logical and sustainable, just like historical examples they're modeled after were. Cutting them out in favor of "Yara crosses half the world to save her little brother but then runs away from the dogs" stupidity is exactly what it appears to be: dumbing the story down.

If the best you can do is accuse someone of fanboyism, it really either means your argument has no merit, or you're simply not smart enough to defend it. If you want, you could clarify which it is.

I can't tell if that's a joke or not. If you think they're in any way close to the Vikings, the people they're supposed to be based on, or at all realistic/sustainable then you really need to look up some history. The Vikings are a rich, cultured society that had a reasonable, sustainable economy and way of life. The IB are like if they all decided to get group lobotomies.

[HousePotterz]

And I don't need to read the last 2 books to know who is a main character and who isn't. Main characters are there from the beginning or nearly the beginning. They don't show up in book 5 through other characters' POVs.

I like the books, but I'm not about to defend Martin for what he did to the last books. Just because something is written in the books doesn't mean it's important. I like Manderly, and I like his plot, but that doesn't mean I EXPECT it in the show...because I don't. And his absence sure as hell won't ruin the show for me.

A million times THIS. Especially the fAegon part.

I have no doubt that fAegon will have SOME role in advancing the plotline for a major character(s), and as such, perhaps that warrants his inclusion into the show. But given the fact that a.) He was introduced so late into the plot as a non-POV, b.) Has not yet in the space of half a book (~500 pages) majorly affected the plotline for anyone except his own attached POV, JonCon, and c.) Dan and Dave know the entire arc of the story and the main characters, I'm going out on a limb and saying that with the exception of George Martin's and a number of his fans' minds, fAegon just isn't THAT important to the overall plot.

What sj4iy said above rings true. Jon Snow is a good comparison, I think. We've been living Jon Snow's story for five books now. He's been with us from the beginning, but he is still a character that is shrouded in mystery. We the audience know that Jon Snow is not dead (well, rather that his story is not finished) at the end of ADwD because there's been so much set before us indicating his story is much more meaningful than what it's been. The same can be said (granted with a little less mystery) about Daenerys and Tyrion. They obviously are the main characters and will have some role in the finale of this story. If Jon is truly and finally dead, never comes back, and has the same role going forward as a Robb/Eddard Stark, and Aegon becomes the savior of Westeros in the War for the Dawn, I will throw ADoS through a window (in 2030 or whenever it is we get it.)

[UK Mord]

I don't mind the omission of stuff from book 4&5 and IS necessary to keep the pacing of the show up. I would watch with the omissions.

However, I would NOT watch if they include Book 6 stuff which appears likely in SANSA and ARYA and possibly TYRION story lines. I don't hate the shows for changing things do agree that the show made GoT as big as it is. I did read the books before the show as well.

I wish D&D would post something that tells us for certain if S5 will have Book 6 content in it. I don't need details, just a simple acknowledgement (or not) of if they are actually going to pass Martin at this point.

Am I alone here on this train of thought?

Nope. There is enough knicker wetting from the tv only followers not being spoilt from the book readers. The book readers should be treated with the same respect.

Personally, I'm not going to hang on for the books. I may get struck by lightning before they are done and I'm not that patient to wait.

[Miodrag]

If the best you can do is accuse someone of fanboyism, it really either means your argument has no merit, or you're simply not smart enough to defend it. If you want, you could clarify which it is.

I can't tell if that's a joke or not. If you think they're in any way close to the Vikings, the people they're supposed to be based on, or at all realistic/sustainable then you really need to look up some history. The Vikings are a rich, cultured society that had a reasonable, sustainable economy and way of life. The IB are like if they all decided to get group lobotomies.

Last time I checked, there was nothing in ASOIAF about Ironborn economy. Which is quite OK. Martin's writing an epic, not a social study. It's not like economy of the 7k is entirely absent from the story, but he didn't go into details, and I don't see why would he.

What he gave us is more than enough to get the feeling of the realm in general and its different parts. What he wrote about Ironborn is entirely believable and sustainable. Of course that Vikings were the model, but he also added some of his own originality: "iron price", their religion, and so on. What I especially like is a detail that each Ironborn captain is a king on his own ship: it may explain the general problem they have with the discipline, which is also historically correct for certain societies that depended too much on seafaring and especially sea warfare (besides Vikings, Carthage could be a good example, though there are exceptions like England).

But, he didn't go into economy. It is said more than once that for centuries and centuries IB were enjoying the fruits of pillaging, but that's it. We don't know anything about, say, distribution of wealth among IB. Of course, that's not to say that anything about IB contradicts common sense or basic laws of economy, because it doesn't, but details we simply don't have. And yet, here you are bringing Vikings' economy as if it is meant to be important for some reason. And it's not like you mention any details about Vikings economy or any reason why do you think IB are unsustainable in any aspect, be it economy or something else. All you seem to be doing is repeating that IB are stupid and dumb and lobotomized. Some argumentation.

And you can't tell if I'm joking?! Good lord.

So go on, feel free to think about my posts whatever you desire. Hopefully, your fanboyish anger isn't lethal, so I'll probably survive. But, if you want to elevate your own posts into something more substantiative than pure D&D fanboyism (or, in this case, Martin anti-fanboyism, if your ridiculous attitude even has a term), well, then you'll have to come up with some actual, realistic and logical argumentation.

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

Even though I'm totally disappointed at how badly HBO has handled GoT - the characterization is clueless (e.g. Brienne the swaggering, sarcastic badass), the writing is atrocious (e.g. Tyrion's monologue about his retarded cousin crushing beetles), the changes are unnecessary and inept (e.g. replacing Jeyne with Talisa), etc. - I would still continue watching the show if it weren't for the fact that it is overtaking the books.

There is just no way that I am going to let HBO, which somehow managed to tarnish solid gold source material, define the ending of ASoIaF for me. I want to experience the story for the first time the way it was meant to be told - by its masterful creator, not half-spoiled and half-ruined by HBO.

GRRM has nobody to blame but himself. Why on earth did he sell the rights to his story ages before he was anywhere close to being finished with it? For crying out loud, when Season 1 began, DwD wasn't even out! As it stands right now, I'd be willing to bet that the show ends before WoW is even released. It must be terrible to realize that the conclusion of your magnum opus - something you've spend almost two decades and counting writing - will be usurped by someone else. It's his own fault, though.

[roxWolfox]

Even though I'm totally disappointed at how badly HBO has handled GoT - the characterization is clueless (e.g. Brienne the swaggering, sarcastic badass), the writing is atrocious (e.g. Tyrion's monologue about his retarded cousin crushing beetles), the changes are unnecessary and inept (e.g. replacing Jeyne with Talisa), etc. - I would still continue watching the show if it weren't for the fact that it is overtaking the books.

There is just no way that I am going to let HBO, which somehow managed to tarnish solid gold source material, define the ending of ASoIaF for me. I want to experience the story for the first time the way it was meant to be told - by its masterful creator, not half-spoiled and half-ruined by HBO.

GRRM has nobody to blame but himself. Why on earth did he sell the rights to his story ages before he was anywhere close to being finished with it? For crying out loud, when Season 1 began, DwD wasn't even out! As it stands right now, I'd be willing to bet that the show ends before WoW is even released. It must be terrible to realize that the conclusion of your magnum opus - something you've spend almost two decades and counting writing - will be usurped by someone else. It's his own fault, though.

Doesn't it have to be a finished work to be considered a Magnum Opus? Or am I getting it wrong in translation? :dunno:

[sj4iy]

Doesn't it have to be a finished work to be considered a Magnum Opus? Or am I getting it wrong in translation? :dunno:

It doesn't. But I don't understand why so many people act as if they know how Martin feels about it- I wouldn't presume for one moment to do so. What they are doing is projecting their own feelings about it onto Martin to make their opinions seem more valid than others...."Well, Martin must not like it! So I'm right in believing that this is a terrible thing, too!"

I don't care if Martin likes it or not...he sold the rights for a shit ton of money and is rich enough that he doesn't have to write another word for the rest of his life. As far as I'm concerned, the show is the show and the books are the books.

[roxWolfox]

He does address the issue in one of his last Not A Blog posts, so I think he's okay with HBO carrying on doing what they're doing. He had considered having an animated version of ASoIaF, but the one who was sent to talk to him about a deal didn't show up, and he doesn't seem too upset about it.

I don't know the man, I don't talk to him, and I don't read every article questioning him..so I don't know what he thinks, truly.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

A million times THIS. Especially the fAegon part.

I have no doubt that fAegon will have SOME role in advancing the plotline for a major character(s), and as such, perhaps that warrants his inclusion into the show. But given the fact that a.) He was introduced so late into the plot as a non-POV, b.) Has not yet in the space of half a book (~500 pages) majorly affected the plotline for anyone except his own attached POV, JonCon, and c.) Dan and Dave know the entire arc of the story and the main characters, I'm going out on a limb and saying that with the exception of George Martin's and a number of his fans' minds, fAegon just isn't THAT important to the overall plot.

What sj4iy said above rings true. Jon Snow is a good comparison, I think. We've been living Jon Snow's story for five books now. He's been with us from the beginning, but he is still a character that is shrouded in mystery. We the audience know that Jon Snow is not dead (well, rather that his story is not finished) at the end of ADwD because there's been so much set before us indicating his story is much more meaningful than what it's been. The same can be said (granted with a little less mystery) about Daenerys and Tyrion. They obviously are the main characters and will have some role in the finale of this story. If Jon is truly and finally dead, never comes back, and has the same role going forward as a Robb/Eddard Stark, and Aegon becomes the savior of Westeros in the War for the Dawn, I will throw ADoS through a window (in 2030 or whenever it is we get it.)

100% this. I'm praying that this is not where the story is going, but if it is taking this crazy turn and D&D are making the changes/omissions to avoid it they are saints in my book.

This is the last thing I want to read:

Howland Reed POV Chapter

Howland: "Hello Nights Watch, my name is Howland Reed. Could you tell me where Lord Snow is?"

Sir Allister: "That wildling bastard died last night!" (Spits)

Howland: "Oh, ok. I was going to tell him that he's actually a Targaryen and his mom is Lyana Stark, but I guess it doesn't matter now. By chance have you seen any Crannogmen lately?"

[roxWolfox]

100% this. I'm praying that this is not where the story is going, but if it is taking this crazy turn and D&D are making the changes/omissions to avoid it they are saints in my book.

This is the last thing I want to read:

Howland Reed POV Chapter

Howland: "Hello Nights Watch, my name is Howland Reed. Could you tell me where Lord Snow is?"

Sir Allister: "That wildling bastard died last night!" (Spits)

Howland: "Oh, ok. I was going to tell him that he's actually a Targaryen and his mom is Lyana Stark, but I guess it doesn't matter now. By chance have you seen any Crannogmen lately?"

:lol:

[Nihlus]

I think I'll still watch it. The production values and acting are still really good, and I like the social events surrounding episode viewings. As long as they don't completely fuck up the North storyline (well, more than they already have by completely changing Stannis's character and motivation), it'll be watchable, at least.

[ShadowKitteh]

I don't mind omissions per se. But I think all of books 1-3 should be included. There is a lot the producers can omit from book 4 and 5 that we can do without. I get that. But not books 1-3 because of how much of it they already put in.

Books 1-3 is the first phase/Act 1 of the story and I feel it should be complete. If god forbid the show were canceled prematurely, I would at least be satisfied they completed the story up to book 3. Like I said, something very important happened in book 3 on the Iron Islands and official announcements and rumors suggest the Iron islands will not be visited.

As for my favorite character that appears in book 5, well I'll admit he's not entirely necessary but it makes the show even less worth watching.

I cannot understand how everyone thinks this is a GOOD thing for the TV show.

Because it's a TV show, and not a book series. Two entirely different storytelling mediums.

[ServantOnIce]

So, my suspicions of Ramsay marrying Sansa seem correct . . .. why the plot change?

[Jack Bauer 24]

So, my suspicions of Ramsay marrying Sansa seem correct . . .. why the plot change?

fArya, not Sansa.