[TWOW Spoilers] Alayne I, v. 2

[Modesty Lannister]

She already knows she can't truly trust Littlefinger and at least has an inkling that he's putting a very high price tag on "protecting" her, and well aware she has to pretend to be someone she's not in order to maintain that protection.

Some textual support for such claims would be helpful.

[Mithras]

Sorry, I could not follow your point.

Oysters contain pearls, which are precious stones. Alayne is a precious Stone too. Sansa was described as a prize several times and Arya observed that it was the smaller, quicker, thin, mean and hungry animals that often won the prize. Mad Mouse was described exactly like this.

[Isobel Harper]

I agree with the second sentence. But who made it happen? Did she escape Kl and created an atmosphere of security around her?

Sansa. I take back what I said about leaving King's Landing being the keystone to here evolution in the Vale. I think her Alayne persona has allowed Sansa to "hit the refresh button" and allowed her to become stronger and more confident. Escaping King's Landing and being allowed more freedom in the Vale is a factor to her emotional growth, as is everything she had to undergo AGoTthrough ASoS.

[Isobel Harper]

Oysters contain pearls, which are precious stones. Alayne is a precious Stone too. Sansa was described as a prize several times and Arya observed that it was the smaller, quicker, thin, mean and hungry animals that often won the prize. Mad Mouse was described exactly like this.

Hmmmm...

As the nightingales fell silent, the river larks took up their song. Egrets splashed amongst the reeds and left their tracks across the sandbars. The clouds in the sky were aglow: pink and purple, maroon and gold, pearl and saffron. One looked like a dragon. Once a man has seen a dragon in flight, let him stay at home and tend his garden in content, someone had written once, for this wide world has no greater wonder. Tyrion scratched at his scar and tried to recall the author's name. Dragons had been much in his thoughts of late.

[Avlonnic]

I don't think Shadrich ever jousted and I don't think he will start doing it this time.

In the melee, he is as good as dead.

So, no. Shadrich will not participate in the tourney but in the end, he will be the one to collect the prize ;)

Cats liked the smell of Cat. Some days she would have a dozen trailing after her before the sun went down. From time to time the girl would throw an oyster at them and watch to see who came away with it. The biggest toms would seldom win, she noticed; oft as not, the prize went to some smaller, quicker animal, thin and mean and hungry. Like me, she told herself. Her favorite was a scrawny old tom with a chewed ear who reminded her of a cat that she’d once chased all around the Red Keep.

Ser Shadrich was a wiry, fox-faced man with a sharp nose and a shock of orange hair, mounted on a rangy chestnut courser. Though he could not have been more than five foot two, he had a cocksure manner.

“Hedge knights?” said Alayne, when the door had closed.

“Hungry knights.”

Love the quote - so apropos. One point I would argue would be regarding the melee: I would not rule Ser Shadrich out in the melee, in the unlikely event he would choose to participate. Shadrich told Brienne he is not a tourney knight but saves his valor for battle; in this chapter, Sansa also recognizes signs of a battle-hardened warrior in Shadrich's face. I suspect Shadrich has plans beyond any tourney melee.

* My understanding is that only the 64 pre-selected young unmarried knights who received a personal invitation will be permitted to participate in the main events of the tourney (jousting, etc.) After all, the prize is a shot at the Winged Knight position - and those invitees should have been carefully vetted by Littlefinger. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to discover LF has already chosen his target candidates and is arranging the tourney to ensure he obtains the 8 individuals he wants. (I suspect it limits the pool of competitors to wear Sansa's favor to those invitees, thus the descriptions of the knights we received in this chapter.)

* Typically the melee is the final event after the tourney. That would be where we might see hedge knights and/or a mystery knight compete, along with the fathers, uncles, cousins, brothers, and sundry others. A chaos of a melee can lend cover to much mischief by ill-intentioned individuals so I suppose we will wait and see if anything untoward transpires either in the melee or in the lists.

ETA: a word

[Dya of Oldstones]

Some textual support for such claims would be helpful.

She already knows she can't truly trust Littlefinger and at least has an inkling that he's putting a very high price tag on "protecting" her, and well aware she has to pretend to be someone she's not in order to maintain that protection.

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He saved Alayne, his daughter, a voice within her whispered. But she was Sansa too . . . and sometimes it seemed to her that the Lord Protector was two people as well. He was Petyr, her protector, warm and funny and gentle . . . but he was also Littlefinger, the lord she'd known at King's Landing, smiling slyly and stroking his beard as he whispered in Queen Cersei's ear. And Littlefinger was no friend of hers. When Joff had her beaten, the Imp defended her, not Littlefinger. When the mob sought to rape her, the Hound carried her to safety, not Littlefinger. When the Lannisters wed her to Tyrion against her will, Ser Garlan the Gallant gave her comfort, not Littlefinger. Littlefinger never lifted so much as his little finger for her.

Trust no one, I once told Eddard Stark, but he would not listen. You are Alayne, and you must be Alayne all the time." He put two fingers on her left breast. "Even here. In your heart. Can you do that? Can you be my daughter in your heart?"

"I . . ." I do not know, my lord, she almost said, but that was not what he wanted to hear. Lies and Arbor gold, she thought. "I am Alayne, Father. Who else would I be?"

AFFC Sansa 1

She's still well aware she has to lie about who she is, even though Sansa still slips through.

“Yes,” she said, “but why must he be so cruel? He called me your bastard. Right in the yard, in front of everyone.”

“So far as he knows, that’s who you are. This betrothal was never his idea, and Bronze Yohn has no doubt warned him against my wiles. You are my daughter. He does not trust you, and he believes that you’re beneath him.”

TWOW Alayne 1

Also the thought of Father.....Lord Eddard Stark. Even as Alayne, Sansa hasn't left the building.

While I'm sure she's happy to be much less isolated than in King's Landing, she's still checking people out and sizing them up to see who's loyal to whom, and keeping a lot of herself on the down low.

edit: formatting

[Gala]

AFFC Sansa 1

She's still well aware she has to lie about who she is, even though Sansa still slips through.

TWOW Alayne

Also the thought of Father.....Lord Eddard Stark. Even as Alayne, Sansa hasn't left the building.

While I'm sure she's happy to be much less isolated than in King's Landing, she's still checking people out and sizing them up to see who's loyal to whom, and keeping a lot of herself on the down low.

edit: formatting

Wonderful post! Thank you.

[Modesty Lannister]

Oysters contain pearls, which are precious stones. Alayne is a precious Stone too. Sansa was described as a prize several times and Arya observed that it was the smaller, quicker, thin, mean and hungry animals that often won the prize. Mad Mouse was described exactly like this.

Apart from this wage and stretched comparison (if we do a word search, we may find many comparisons that may link the unlinkable), how do you foresee the Mad Mouse escaping the Vale with his prize? And where to? The Bloody Gate does not sound attractive at all. Fighting his way to the nearest port is not a likely option either. So, teleportation maybe?

[Modesty Lannister]

Sansa. I take back what I said about leaving King's Landing being the keystone to here evolution in the Vale. I think her Alayne persona has allowed Sansa to "hit the refresh button" and allowed her to become stronger and more confident. Escaping King's Landing and being allowed more freedom in the Vale is a factor to her emotional growth, as is everything she had to undergo AGoTthrough ASoS.

And who invented that persona? Quote would be nice.

[Modesty Lannister]

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AFFC Sansa 1

She's still well aware she has to lie about who she is, even though Sansa still slips through.

TWOW Alayne 1

Also the thought of Father.....Lord Eddard Stark. Even as Alayne, Sansa hasn't left the building.

While I'm sure she's happy to be much less isolated than in King's Landing, she's still checking people out and sizing them up to see who's loyal to whom, and keeping a lot of herself on the down low.

edit: formatting

Nice quotes, but they do not prove what you postulate. You take into consideration only the parts you blooded while you want to ignore the parts you didn't. But they are there for us to read. So, she does not trust LF, but she trusts Petyr. So, she sees LF as a public persona that cannot be hurt, just like Alayne is her public persona. She would be mad if she thought she was Alayne. She is playing her part. Is she resisting it? Does she have a plan for the future that does not involve LF? Do we see her confronting Petyr like she did Joffrey when he showed her Ned's head? Do we see her giving LF a silent treatment she gave to Tyrion? As for the price bit of your assertion, these quotes do not prove it. The last quote you offered has nothing to do with your assertion. She is actually seeking LF out much like she would have sought after Ned when somebody offended her in WF. That quote only proves that she is "in character" almost all the time. Do we see her suffer because of it? Complain? No. We see her content that LF took her advice about the tourney. Her following LFs suggestions to the letter. Her relishing the fact that the lemon cake is made for her.

[HexMachina]

Also an important fact is that AGoT-ACoK-ASoS was originally supposed to be the first part (Stark-Lannister war) of George's trilogy with Dany's invasion being the second and the invasion of the Others being the third. Therefore, considering that the scene is changing and new characters are being introduced, we cannot assume that the POV ratios in the first three books will remain the same.

Yes! I know, let's use the scrapped summary to predict the future events and cack-handedly try to match the characters to the earlier counter parts, rather than using the actual novels! Makes perfect sense!

[rozemarijn]

That's probably the most likely interpretation of 'Council of Faith', but it wouldn't surprise me if LF is able to dig up some precedent dating back to Andalos where it's just an X-number of septons. If it ever becomes relevant of course.

Maybe the Faith wont grant the annulnment so he'll spit the Church and make Sansa head of it.

That would be cool.

[Dya of Oldstones]

Nice quotes, but they do not prove what you postulate. You take into consideration only the parts you blooded while you want to ignore the parts you didn't. But they are there for us to read. So, she does not trust LF, but she trusts Petyr. So, she sees LF as a public persona that cannot be hurt, just like Alayne is her public persona. She would be mad if she thought she was Alayne. She is playing her part. Is she resisting it? Does she have a plan for the future that does not involve LF? Do we see her confronting Petyr like she did Joffrey when he showed her Ned's head? Do we see her giving LF a silent treatment she gave to Tyrion? As for the price bit of your assertion, these quotes do not prove it. The last quote you offered has nothing to do with your assertion. She is actually seeking LF out much like she would have sought after Ned when somebody offended her in WF. That quote only proves that she is "in character" almost all the time. Do we see her suffer because of it? Complain? No. We see her content that LF took her advice about the tourney. Her following LFs suggestions to the letter. Her relishing the fact that the lemon cake is made for her.

Well, like my granddaddy said, wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one gets filled up first, and that's pretty much what she's doing now. She's well aware that she's in no position to challenge him or to leave at the moment so she's making the best of it. Oh sure, she's planned a tourney and it's all a party now which is supposed to put people in a good mood. We still don't know how things are going to shake out once shit hits the fan.

Since Littlefinger was the one who arranged Harry for her in the first place, it may just as well be an employee checking with her boss on a project she's been given. It's business.

ETA: I'm well aware that LF is no dummy and smart enough to recognize skill sets of hers that will prove valuable to him. Even in the cellar, she still saw when he was being Littlefinger and when he was being Petyr.

[Le Cygne]

Well, like my granddaddy said, wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one gets filled up first, and that's pretty much what she's doing now. She's well aware that she's in no position to challenge him or to leave at the moment so she's making the best of it. Oh sure, she's planned a tourney and it's all a party now which is supposed to put people in a good mood. We still don't know how things are going to shake out once shit hits the fan.

Since Littlefinger was the one who arranged Harry for her in the first place, it may just as well be an employee checking with her boss on a project she's been given. It's business.

ETA: I'm well aware that LF is no dummy and smart enough to recognize skill sets of hers that will prove valuable to him. Even in the cellar, she still saw when he was being Littlefinger and when he was being Petyr.

Love it! :lol: Never heard that one before, but it's great. That's exactly what she's doing.

[Isobel Harper]

And who invented that persona? Quote would be nice.

"Alayne Stone" came about in AFFC in order to hide Sansa from the Lannisters.

Why are you being pedantic about this?

[Modesty Lannister]

Well, like my granddaddy said, wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one gets filled up first, and that's pretty much what she's doing now. She's well aware that she's in no position to challenge him or to leave at the moment so she's making the best of it. Oh sure, she's planned a tourney and it's all a party now which is supposed to put people in a good mood. We still don't know how things are going to shake out once shit hits the fan.

Since Littlefinger was the one who arranged Harry for her in the first place, it may just as well be an employee checking with her boss on a project she's been given. It's business.

ETA: I'm well aware that LF is no dummy and smart enough to recognize skill sets of hers that will prove valuable to him. Even in the cellar, she still saw when he was being Littlefinger and when he was being Petyr.

I am not following. I asked for textual support from your assessment that

She already knows she can't truly trust Littlefinger and at least has an inkling that he's putting a very high price tag on "protecting" her, and well aware she has to pretend to be someone she's not in order to maintain that protection.

So, let's stick to it. I am not going to follow you as you jump up and down your stream of consciousness. I am still waiting for that textual support for your claims.

[Modesty Lannister]

"Alayne Stone" came about in AFFC in order to hide Sansa from the Lannisters.

Why are you being pedantic about this?

From whom? Came about how?

[LongRider]

Well, like my granddaddy said, wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one gets filled up first, and that's pretty much what she's doing now. She's well aware that she's in no position to challenge him or to leave at the moment so she's making the best of it. Oh sure, she's planned a tourney and it's all a party now which is supposed to put people in a good mood. We still don't know how things are going to shake out once shit hits the fan.

Since Littlefinger was the one who arranged Harry for her in the first place, it may just as well be an employee checking with her boss on a project she's been given. It's business.

ETA: I'm well aware that LF is no dummy and smart enough to recognize skill sets of hers that will prove valuable to him. Even in the cellar, she still saw when he was being Littlefinger and when he was being Petyr.

Some have suggested that the tourney idea originated with LF but he got Sansa to think it was her idea, sounds like a LF manipulation so could be. Also, the 8 Winged Guard will really be 8 hostages of the finest noble families of the Vale. So, exciting times ahead.

A nice tourney, where blood will be spilled and hopes dashed like brains. Because this an invitation only tourney, very slim chances of mystery knights. I was hoping the Blackfish would show up as one, but that's just my little cracked pot leaking a bit.

Can't wait to see how the tourney unfolds. Should be fun. :commie:

[Modesty Lannister]

Some have suggested that the tourney idea originated with LF but he got Sansa to think it was her idea, sounds like a LF manipulation so could be. Also, the 8 Winged Guard will really be 8 hostages of the finest noble families of the Vale. So, exciting times ahead.

A nice tourney, where blood will be spilled and hopes dashed like brains. Because this an invitation only tourney, very slim chances of mystery knights. I was hoping the Blackfish would show up as one, but that's just my little cracked pot leaking a bit.

Can't wait to see how the tourney unfolds. Should be fun. :commie:

The Hedge Knight or the Red Wedding kind of fun. lol. But, I agree with your assessments. We are in for some serious and carefully targeted bloodshed. LF distributed identical daggers to all participants. That is just horrendous. If someone gets stabbed in the night and if someone else lacks a dagger that someone can be easily framed for murder or blackmailed. And that is without the actual tourney slaughter possibilities. GRRM is such a tease. He gives us the intro and then deprives us of the meaty stuff.

[Harry the Hair]

Has anyone else thought that the LF-Sansa story has a bit of a Rumpelstiltskin vibe to it?

A maiden (Sansa/Alayne) gets imprisoned by a king and has to constantly cater to his demands, otherwise she will lose her head. She is unable to succeed in fulfilling the tasks that she is given by herself. A trickster like figure appears to save her by doing the tasks for her, but for a price. The value of the price increases with each task. On the first day it's a necklace, on the second it's a ring and on the third it is her future first born child.

In Sansa's case the first price is LF's constant, creepy attention/affection. In AGOT he touches her hair

"Your mother was my queen of beauty once," the man said quietly. His breath smelled of mint. "You have her hair." His fingers brushed against her cheek as he stroked one auburn lock. Quite abruptly, he turned and walked away.

and looks at her in a very disturbing way

she could feel Littlefinger staring. Something about the way the small man looked at her made Sansa feel as if she had no clothes on. Goose bumps prickled her skin.

later on, in ASOS and AFFC, he is no longer content with looking, now we have the disturbing kisses and inappropriate touching

Sansa tried to step back, but he pulled her into his arms and suddenly he was kissing her. Feebly, she tried to squirm, but only succeeded in pressing herself more tightly against him. His mouth was on hers, swallowing her words. He tasted of mint. For half a heartbeat she yielded to the kiss... before she turned her face away and wrenched free.

He pulled her closer, caught her face between his hands, and kissed her on the lips for a long time. "Now that is the sort of kiss that says welcome home. See that you do better next time.

Petyr Baelish took her by the hand and drew her down onto his lap.

Petyr took her hand in his own and brushed his finger lightly down the side of her palm.

He turned her hand over and lightly kissed her wrist

which now leads us to the third price, could it be the same thing Rumpelstiltskin ask for, a firstborn child of hers?

The maiden agrees to meet his price but when the day comes for her to give up her firstborn she pleads with the trickster and offers him all the gold and jewels she has. He offers her an alternative deal; he would allow her to keep the child if she could solve his riddle. Long story short, the maiden manages to trick the trickster and gives him the correct answer.

LF is always asking her questions, trying to see how her logic works, often gives her bits and pieces of information but lets her put them together herself in order to see the big picture. So the riddle aspect is already here.

“Tell me, Alayne - which is more dangerous, the dagger brandished by an enemy, or the hidden one pressed to your back by someone you never even see?”

“The hidden dagger.”

“There’s a clever girl.”

"the Lady Alayne, my natural and very clever daughter"

"So tell me, sweetling - why is Harry the Heir?"

Her eyes widened. "He is not Lady Waynwood's heir. He's Robert's heir."

“They’re young, eager, hungry for adventure and renown. Lysa would not let them go to war. This [tourney] is the next best thing. A chance to serve their lord and prove their prowess. They will come. Even Harry the Heir.” He had smoothed her hair and kissed her forehead. “What a clever daughter you are.”

It's possible, that in the future, Sansa may avoid paying Petyr's last price if she is able to solve his ultimate riddle and foil his grand plan.