GRRM considering big twist for a major character

[A horsefaced girl]

This is so wide open, it could be anyone, the tv show has basically changed everyone.

[Cold Hands warm heart]

Coldhands returns, makes everything okay again.

[Katjushka]

Sure George can change a lot while writing but I really don't see it possible for him to change the big things in the end (Which of the big 5/6 live and die, who if anyone sits on the IT, how are the Others defeated etc.) because surely he has been writing this story all along with that ending in mind. The books are full of foreshadowing, prophecies and hints to the future so all of a sudden he's just going to ignore those and completely change the outcome? Sounds bad.

Little things change all the time while writing, of course, but the big picture stays pretty much the same. Who wins, who loses. So just like the show is taking a different route to get to the end, this twist could be George taking a different route with a certain character who still ends up in the same place at the end,

I get that George has mixed feelings about the show but I do believe they are still in good terms and speaking to each other, working together to finish the show in the best way possible. If he needs little things like this twist to keep his interests up then he should go for it, totally. It doesn't take anything away from the show that is still working towards the same ending that George is working towards.

[ambi76]

From the "got season 7 deals" on the show folks we know that: Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Cersei, Jaime, Sansa, Arya (and Margaery) are the big 8 and GRRM can't do some major twists with them, I think, except maybe Marg who is thankfully not Natalie Dormer in the books. He definitely said nothing about major character, he said long-term character.

[Jô Maltese]

I think he might have been talking about Shiera + Bloodraven = Mel. Read the interview with this in mind and it makes sense. But I also agree that it might be someone else, like Sansa.

What if he just thought of BR+SS=M

BR+SS=M does not make any sense: why would Mel keep looking for King's blood if herself was 100% of it?

[Mithras]

BR+SS=M does not make any sense: why would Mel keep looking for King's blood if herself was 100% of it?

I don't think Mel knows this. She is trying to supress her memories. Besides, I think Mel is a wight and so her blood is useless as an ingredient of magic.

[bent branch]

If the individual he is talking about is a POV, then I would guess Jaime or Sansa. Sansa's story has already gone beyond the books and Jaime is going to Dorne this season. This creates space for the show and books to deviate considerably in their storylines.

If the individual is not a POV, then I think Gendry, Bronn or Loras are good possibilities. They've been around in the story a long time and are in positions where we aren't seeing them right now, so...

Really, there are so many possibilities I doubt I can reasonably guess.

[Mithras]

Jaime is supposed to be the valonqar. I don't think George would want to change that.

[Tumpelo]

Here is a cute suggestion :)

R+L=J

(with R standing for Robert, being perhaps just a bit faster than the other R)

[The One And Only]

GRRM isn't changing anything. He doesn't know what Winds of Winter and Dreams of Spring will be until he submits his final draft to the publisher. That means that show producers are going to be turning out to be increasing wrong about plots and characters, and not the other way around. All the show has is a general outline, some future complete chapters, some partial chapters, and lots of notes. The process of writing a novel, especially for a GRRM type writer, guarantees that the story will change as it is actually written. Sometimes your original idea must be changed to a better idea. It happens.

Next season will be known as the great diversion from the books. This could have all been avoided, or at least minimized, if the TV show would have stuck closer to the books in characterisation and plot, but they didn't, and they continued to change things, even minor things needlessly.

The show had no choice but to divert from the books. If they followed books 4 and 5 it would have made for horrible television.

Even GRRM has admitted he never intended to write about this time period.

[Emanresu]

Any filmic adaptation of any book or series of books diverges from it. The Hobbit films, Harry Potter, LOTR, Hunger Games, Cloud Atlas, Steig Larsson, Let the Right One In, I could go on (at quite some length!). For me it doesn't despoil or diminish the books; but you have to see both as different expressions of the same broad story. The details - some major - will inevitably be different. I'm a bookboy - the book will always be canon for me, and anything on TV or in the cinema an adaptation - but that doesn't diminish the TV/film versions either. They are simply different takes on the same story. I think the show is simply wonderful, and up there with the best TV ever made (which for me includes The Wire, Breaking Bad, The (Danish) Killing, etc).

Put differently, I don't think D+D are "getting it wrong", nor do I think the twist is snark aimed at them. They are telling different, equally valid, versions of the same story. Where they differ, for me GRRM's version is absolutely the canon i.e. the real story, and the show an interpretation/re-imagining of it. However the truth is more nuanced than that (cf GRRM's comments on Osha, inter alia).

We all moan about the timescales on Getting It Finished but the reality is it gives us an opportunity to see these amazing creative forces at work and the interplay between the owner of the vision and the adapters of it. It's quite fascinating as a process and as a commentary on how great works build and feed off other great works (not to get too meta on a Sunday!).

[Lord Cadwan]

I think Gendry will be involved. He has been in every book apart from a Dance with Dragons thus qualifying him as long term. he also still has importance in the book: he is a knight; a follower of Rh'ollor and a bastard of Robert Baratheon. The fact that he has been mentioned recently coupled with the fact that he also hasn't done much leads me to believe that he will do something very major in the future. He is also connected with a few other major long term characters: Arya, Brienne and Thoros of Myr.

[myufa]

I don't think Mel knows this. She is trying to supress her memories. Besides, I think Mel is a wight and so her blood is useless as an ingredient of magic.

She's not a wight but she could easily have dragon blood. And even if she knew she probably would find an excuse not to kill herself. But she doesn't know.

[francisco of house avila]

R+l=j

[William Campbell]

Saying that they will have the same ending is meaningless, especially since no one here can qualify what that actually means. If I started writing a story called 'star wars' and asked someone else to write to story too, but only gave them the beginning: a farm boy meets a mysterious old man that encourages him to go on an adventure, and told the other writer the ending: He blows up the Death Star. Then we would end up with completely different stories. Han Solo might be Hana Solo, or Han could be edited out completely because the other writer didn't think him important enough, "The story is really about Luke Starkiller and not some cheesy space pirate guy." All that matters is the ending right? NO, of course not. The story is what happens before the one ring falls into the volcano, the death star explodes, the monster is stopped, etc.

[William Campbell]

Any filmic adaptation of any book or series of books diverges from it.

The above is an example of an extremely trite statement.

People aren't worried about changes. People are worried about bad changes. And now that D&D have a freer hand, since they moved past the source material, I expect more bad changes to come.

[Weirdo]

Nope, because that's not how contracts work. If he lied to them from the start they'll sue him and easily win lots and lots and lots of his money. I don't think he's stupid enough to not have realized that.

To me, this reads as a desperate ploy to try and distinguish the books from the show. Otherwise, why mention the show can't do it at all?

Even though I agree that the endings will almost certainly be the same I doubt there's any contractual element binding Martin to an ending. He should still maintain creative freedom of his work with two books remaining. It would also be pretty difficult for a court of law to distinguish the extent of which the ending or events surrounding it could be changed true to any agreement.

I think Martin absolutely could go with a different ending. I think he should. I don't think he will.

HBO didn't buy the books, they bought the right to adapt the books for television. George can do whatever the hell he wants with the books. For that matter, they can do what they want on the show. The only thing George can't do is produce his own TV show.

I'm all for books and show being as different as possible. I'm encouraged that he gets a kick out of the idea.

[The One And Only]

HBO didn't buy the books, they bought the right to adapt the books for television. George can do whatever the hell he wants with the books. For that matter, they can do what they want on the show. The only thing George can't do is produce his own TV show.

I'm all for books and show being as different as possible. I'm encouraged that he gets a kick out of the idea.

Correct, they bought the rights to adapt the story of the books. And if GRRM purposely changes the books afterwards he is going to piss a lot of people off and likely break his contract.

But that point is irrelevant.

The books and the television show will end the same way. Some fans hope that will not happen and have created warped versions in their mind of scenarios where this won't happen. The only reason Season 5 is changing from the source material so much is because the source material is not filmable for these seasons. Books 4 and 5 have too much internal character struggles and divert from the main characters far too much. The Meereen Knot created problems for GRRM. It won't cause problems for the TV Show.

In the end, both the books and TV show are likely to end up in the same places with the same main characters making an impact in the end.

[Werthead]

And if GRRM purposely changes the books afterwards he is going to piss a lot of people off and likely break his contract.

I can tell you with absolute assurance that there is nothing in the contract that will prevent GRRM from doing things differently in the last two books if he wishes. I don't think he will because the ending of the story is built on everything that has come before, and doing something different just for difference's sake will feel trite and artificial, hence GRRM's claim he will only do things differently for that character if it feels natural.

A good example of this, if you've seen it, is Babylon 5. The writer, who crafted an elaborately detailed story arc for the entire series, completely threw out the story for the main character (in the first season) because he came up with something better on the fly, and in fact a lot of foreshadowing set up for his original destiny ended up foreshadowing his new one far better. This kind of change can work if it's handled well.

But yeah, contractually I think we can be assured that if GRRM had been asked to sign something limiting what he could do in the final novels, he would not have signed it and we wouldn't have a TV series now.

In the end, both the books and TV show are likely to end up in the same places with the same main characters making an impact in the end.

I do agree with this. The roads there are going to be different - and D&D will clearly be using a lot of short cuts - but we will end up in broadly the same place for the core characters. For the secondary-and-lesser characters, anything is possible.

[Darkbringer]

Of course, the answer is: Not doing R+L=J, so the book ending is different. _{Bring on your storm......}