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Xray the Enforcer

[TWOW Spoilers] Alayne I, v. 3

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How does Sansa's skills being in the area of politics exclude her from The North? All I'm hearing is sansa is too Southern to ever go back to WF. Which is absolute :bs:

Yeah, agreed. People drastically over-exaggerate this North-South divide. There is just as much politics, scheming and backstabbing goes on in the North as there is in the South.

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How does Sansa's skills being in the area of politics exclude her from The North? All I'm hearing is sansa is too Southern to ever go back to WF. Which is absolute :bs:

Yeah, agreed. People drastically over-exaggerate this North-South divide. There is just as much politics, scheming and backstabbing goes on in the North as there is in the South.

Indeed! She made a snow castle of Winterfell, not the Red Keep. Kinda a big clue right there.

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How does Sansa's skills being in the area of politics exclude her from The North? All I'm hearing is sansa is too Southern to ever go back to WF. Which is absolute :bs:

It does not exclude her. But we have to realise, the invasion of the Others is near. To lead a besieged castle or a desperate defense in the field, you need men like Stannis or Jon Snow, and equivalents. There will not be much politicking to do once the north enters its most desperate hour.

And while there are politics in the north, too, Jon Snow has this angle covered already. By now, Sansa knows the political situation in the Vale by heart and she also personally knows many of the key players in Highgarden, Casterly rock and King's Landing. Her knowledge of northern nobles may start to be outdated as the political and military situation changes quickly. She certainly lacks the personal bonds with people like the Manderlys, compared to her contacts with Robin, Harry, LF, Tyrion, Cersei, Margaery etc.

I want to stress again that Sansa is sitting on a pile of food. This is important. Multiple regions are in danger of starving. Another potentially huge contribution to the Stark cause would be to convince Dany to go support the Wall/the north, which may be an issue depending on how Dany's storyline will turn out (where will she land, which are the goals? If she concentrates on the Iron Throne, someone will have to convince her to turn north).

The snow castle was a very nice scene, but it is not a 100% guarantee that she will return north in the near future. One would hope the remaining Starks would all reunite at Winterfell at some point, but I would expect that only in the aftermath of both the Dance v2.0 and the long night 2.0.

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Julia Spiegel @ #171 - Wow, great insight. With regard to this passage, most posts have focused on Sansa's embracing the cover story or the identity of Petyr's daughter. This sentence is very much like Varys - misleading but not technically a lie. Well done.

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Yeah, agreed. People drastically over-exaggerate this North-South divide. There is just as much politics, scheming and backstabbing goes on in the North as there is in the South.

I agree. "The Lannisters give their regards."

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Not my favorite chapter.



It was a little too high school romancy for my liking.



Also, I hope GRRM stops directly telling us Sansa is clever. Just having her come up with the plan to have the tourney would have been enough for the readers to see she is a capable thinker. You don't need to have everyone telling us how awesome she is. Show it, don't say it.


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Not my favorite chapter.

It was a little too high school romancy for my liking.

Also, I hope GRRM stops directly telling us Sansa is clever. Just having her come up with the plan to have the tourney would have been enough for the readers to see she is a capable thinker. You don't need to have everyone telling us how awesome she is. Show it, don't say it.

If you read the lengths some people will go to to refute Sansa as having anything in her head other than candy floss you'd realise why he chose to beat us over the head with Look how clever Sansa is in this chapter, And yet some still vehemently deny her intelligence.

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If you read the lengths some people will go to to refute Sansa as having anything in her head other than candy floss you'd realise why he chose to beat us over the head with Look how clever Sansa is in this chapter, And yet some still vehemently deny her intelligence.

Heh, tell me about it. I mean, just read that thread in this su forum; "what effect does this new chapter have on your perceptions of Sansa's intelligence?" And we still get ridiculous comments like "What intelligence?" :rolleyes:

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Yea I decided for the good of my health not to look at that thread. I saw one ot two posts and thought. No Don't go there. Needless to say some very predictable posters where there jumping through hoops to "prove" Sansa is as dumb as a box of chocolates.



Just look how quickly people started saying the Tourney was probably LF's idea and that he subtly put it in her head. The chapter makes it very clear this was Sansa's idea and Sansa's character history tells us this is an idea that she could feasibly come up with. She knows what motivates SR because she was once motivated by the same stuff, gallantry, knights, tourneys, stories and dreams. Hence why she calls him a little fool in her head, because she now knows such dreams are folly. But she knew how to help SR and the Winged guard decided by a grand tourney is straight out of the hiSTORY books as it is what Visenya did when she created the KG.



BTW an interesting this to note here is Sansa taking on the role of Visenya who was the real power behind the IT and who basically was the ruler of the 7 kingdoms. Aegon did not do anywhere near as much as she did in regards to the ruling of Westeros.



I'm not saying Sansa becomes Visenya I'm saying that we can maybe take a clue that she will be the power behind the ruler in the Vale. As we see she is rapidly becoming the person SR relies upon.


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Who says she stays in the Vale for very long after this chapter. Sansa as well as Arya, using different tools, are fantastic at survival and sometimes thriving under certain conditions. Littlefinger is playing Sansa as much as he can by killing her with kindness, all the while, sneaking his kisses on cheeks etc, creepy but Sansa knows this, she is somewhat stuck so she is simply looking for sturdier ground all the time. If she could get away from littlefinger for a better, more secure life for herself, she would do it. She is perceptive as hell and could tell right off the bat that Harry the Heir is all about hot-girls and sex and he does not care how high or low born they are. She knows that Littlefinger wants her too, she is no longer a fool but she seems to have true affection for SweetRobin as a younger brother etc and is somewhat dismissive of him as a little fool but he is the only one there that seems to truly love her/adore her and want to "protect" her. Littlefinger seems to want to use her as "golden carrot"/teaser but Sansa's best interest are secondary to his own. SweetRobin wants to give her everything. It is sweet. I wonder if anything will come of it.


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Who says she stays in the Vale for very long after this chapter.

After all the time GRRM has spent setting up this location, I would hope there's a point to it. Moreover, if Sansa was really to start "playing" for herself, it really doesn't make sense for her to go anywhere else.

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After all the time GRRM has spent setting up this location, I would hope there's a point to it. Moreover, if Sansa was really to start "playing" for herself, it really doesn't make sense for her to go anywhere else.

Well, given that she is still incognito in this chapter as she has since ASOS and the Mad Mouse is there and we have the mysterious message Brienne mentions regarding Sansa and the hound to Ser Jaime. I wonder if there is going to be a kidnapping or some other intrigue that gets her on the move.

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“You lie,” he said. “All men lie when they are afraid. Some tell many lies, some but a few. Some have only one great lie they tell so often that they almost come to believe it . . . though some small part of them will always know that it is still a lie, and that will show upon their faces.”



“Lord Robert mislikes strangers, you know that, and there will be drinking, noise . . . music. Music frightens him.”


“Music soothes him,” she corrected, “the high harp especially. It’s singing he can’t abide, since Marillion killed his mother.” Alayne had told the lie so many times that she remembered it that way more oft than not; the other seemed no more than a bad dream that sometimes troubled her sleep.



Alayne spoke up. “His singing pleased her greatly, and she showed him too much favor, perhaps. When she wed my father he went mad and pushed her out the Moon Door. Lord Robert has hated singing ever since. He is still fond of music, though.”


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Alayne spoke up. “His singing pleased her greatly, and she showed him too much favor, perhaps. When she wed my father he went mad and pushed her out the Moon Door. Lord Robert has hated singing ever since. He is still fond of music, though.”

This is a 'Varys' type of sentence; she's telling the truth here, her 'father' killed Lysa.

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While I'm glad that Sansa seems to think Sweetrobin will live, I find it strange, wouldn't that make her marrying Harry somewhat pointless? If Sweetrobin doesn't die then Harry is just a landless knight, not really a fit husband for the heir (as far as she knows) of Winterfell. Unless she thinks that the Vale will help her and Harry no matter what, because of what Littlefinger said about Harry being someone other men would follow, unlike him and Sweetrobin. Or perhaps she doesn't think that the marriage will actually go through seeing as Tyrion is still alive.

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This is a 'Varys' type of sentence; she's telling the truth here, her 'father' killed Lysa.

I don't think anything suggests in the new chapter that she has such thought patterns.

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While I'm glad that Sansa seems to think Sweetrobin will live, I find it strange, wouldn't that make her marrying Harry somewhat pointless? If Sweetrobin doesn't die then Harry is just a landless knight, not really a fit husband for the heir (as far as she knows) of Winterfell. Unless she thinks that the Vale will help her and Harry no matter what, because of what Littlefinger said about Harry being someone other men would follow, unlike him and Sweetrobin. Or perhaps she doesn't think that the marriage will actually go through seeing as Tyrion is still alive.

Or perhaps she thinks that her influence over Sweetrobin will become so great that he would do absolutely anything she would ask of him and that they'd all get together around a warm fire, join hands and sing 'Kumbaya for the rest of their lives. :dunno:

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Well, given that she is still incognito in this chapter as she has since ASOS and the Mad Mouse is there and we have the mysterious message Brienne mentions regarding Sansa and the hound to Ser Jaime. I wonder if there is going to be a kidnapping or some other intrigue that gets her on the move.

Brienne's message was lure Jaime into a trap. It has nothing to do with anything happening here; particularly given that Alayne II, or whatever, would be chronologically after Jaime's ADWD chapter.

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Brienne's message was lure Jaime into a trap. It has nothing to do with anything happening here; particularly given that Alayne II, or whatever, would be chronologically after Jaime's ADWD chapter.

I researched the timeline:

What's adding to the puzzle of the tourney is the timeline. I looked at a timeline and it suggests that the day Sansa left the Eyrie for the Gates of the Moon, and the day Bri was hung and released by LS were the same day. Fifth month, fourth day, year 300. Bri meets up with Jamie and they disappear on Fifth month, twenty third day, year 300, so that would be 19 days, almost three weeks later.

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I don't think anything suggests in the new chapter that she has such thought patterns.

Sansa thinks alot of her family, friends and memories from WF in this chapter. The quote shows her telling the truth in an very oblique way, much like Varys does. She also does not do everything with Harry LF tells her too. For instance LF told her have HtH take her outside for breath of fresh air, that didn't happen.

Little subtle things, which I think show that Sanas is not all in as Alayne.

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