Hugo Drama 2015

[Yagathai]

Yags, you're a writer? (Why did I think you were a porn star? What the hell is wrong with me? Not that they're mutually exclusive fields. Somebody has to write the script.)

Great piece.

:rofl:

I used to work in the adult film industry, but not as a scriptwriter.

[Yagathai]

Marion Zimmer Bradley was nominated for two Hugos, and she was at least a knowing enabler of child sexual abuse, and if her own daughter is to be believed ,a perpetrator as well. That said, she never won, and the allegations by her daughter were not revealed until many decades later. But that's about the closest that I know of to a pedophile Hugo winner (unless you believe certain things about Piers Anthony, which -- and I want to stress this -- are rumors which have absolutely no credible basis that I know of).

[Shryke]

Was this graphic posted yet?

I think it's rather telling about what this whole puppies bullshit is really all about:

http://i2.wp.com/difficultrun.nathanielgivens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/913-Corrected-Venn.png

Makes all the attempts to distance themselves from Vox Day even more pathetic.

[Shryke]

Interesting take on all the rumpus from Eric Flint.

http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2015/04/16/some-comments-on-the-hugos-and-other-sf-awards/

The funny thing here is I think he well articulates one of the underlying things that agitates these people and agrees with it. While also showcasing the entire problem with the idea and alot of the complaints.

It's pretty well summed up by this one quote of his:

What it all comes down to, being objective about it, is that every year a few hundred people—Worldcon attendees, in the case of the Hugo; SFWA members in the case of the Nebula—hand out awards not for what authors are actually doing but for what those few hundred people think authors ought to be doing.

Which, yeah, that's kinda the point of awards. Like, as a concept. They aren't just a reflection of sales numbers for a reason.

It all seems to circle back to a vague feeling of disenfranchisement from a bunch of them based solely on them not liking what won and then filtering that through whatever they perceive as their enemy within SFF circles. Lefties, elitist snobs, whatever. It's all over the place cause it all comes down to what each person's particular bad guys are.

[mgambino]

I honestly have never paid attention to the Hugos before. Who's the "pedophiles" who have won?

I'm guessing there talking about Marion Zimmer Bradley and Samuel Delany.

[Darth Richard II]

I look at the sad puppies and all I see is people who are butthurt they lost and are trying to find people to blame.

[Galactus]

I do kind of feel sorry for GRRM. HIs clubhouse is being invaded by the Internet, and that's going to suck. (because regardless of what happens with the Puppies, it's probably not going to go back to the fairly small circle that it was)

[David Selig]

I guess that means at least there will be one non-Puppy nominee in the short fiction categories. I imagine it has a good chance of winning, unless the Sad Puppies buy a lot of supporting memberships, although it's a pity that the quality of the story might be largely irrelevant in terms of whether it wins or not.

I read the story yesterday. I wasn't impressed at all. I've read about half of last year's stories in Lightspeed and this is one of the weakest ones IMO.The whole based on few really heavy-handed metaphors and is much longer than it should be. The plot concept (obvious from the title) is never really explored and only serves as a blatant symbolic expression of the mental state of the main character. Said main character is an incredibly whiny and totally one-dimensional. Basically the whole story is him whining that his girlfriend dumped him and very little else.

[maarsen]

Who's the "pedophiles" who have won? "

Samuel Ray Delany, Jr is the most obvious.

Not a pedophile but gay.Try reading his books.

[Guest]

I sense that the antagonists sense the word "gay" slipping from their grasp as an effective enough shaming label, so it's moving the goal posts to pedophile. Gay doesn't carry the negative connotation they require anymore, so a nastier smear is required.

[The King in Black]

I read the story yesterday. I wasn't impressed at all. I've read about half of last year's stories in Lightspeed and this is one of the weakest ones IMO.The whole based on few really heavy-handed metaphors and is much longer than it should be. The plot concept (obvious from the title) is never really explored and only serves as a blatant symbolic expression of the mental state of the main character. Said main character is an incredibly whiny and totally one-dimensional. Basically the whole story is him whining that his girlfriend dumped him and very little else.

But have you read "Yes Virginia, there's a Santa Claus" ? This story was Ulysses in comparision :lol:

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Spreadsheet with Puppy Suggestions vs. Puppy Choices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KsUUULAR4McYiosUfFT1lr9IRnJgYabSuX6qgSEs19s/edit?pli=1#gid=0

[sologdin]

am bewildered why anyone other than the far right should care whether the far right has been excluded from anything. FFS. we're talking about misanthropic theocratic illiberal aristocratic-sympathizing pro-monarchist lumpenized antisocial nihilists here. fuck em.

[Darth Richard II]

Yeah see, the SP association with Wright throws everything they say out the damn window. The Hugo is dead.

[Cubarey]

"Not a pedophile but gay.Try reading his books."

A gay man who had sex with an adult male when he was6. Also a man who defended the North American Man-Boy Love Association ("Nambla") back in 1995 based on the fact that its newsletter "was a smart, well-written, and well thought-out gay rights newsletter". and his belief that children of any age including those as young as 6 if not younger are perfectly capable of knowingly consenting to sex with adults and that such "relationships" can be benign. http://shetterly.blogspot.com/2014/07/a-conversation-with-samuel-r-delany.html So yes, he himself is not a pedaphile but he is a self- admitted apologist for them.

[felice]

A gay man who had sex with an adult male when he was6.

Well, whatever you think of his opinion, you can't deny it's an informed one.

[Darth Richard II]

am bewildered why anyone other than the far right should care whether the far right has been excluded from anything. FFS. we're talking about misanthropic theocratic illiberal aristocratic-sympathizing pro-monarchist lumpenized antisocial nihilists here. fuck em.

Haha, nice.

[Cubarey]

"

What it all comes down to, being objective about it, is that every year a few hundred people—Worldcon attendees, in the case of the Hugo; SFWA members in the case of the Nebula—hand out awards not for what authors are actually doing but for what those few hundred people think authors ought to be doing.

Which, yeah, that's kinda the point of awards. Like, as a concept. They aren't just a reflection of sales numbers for a reason."

Think you do the Sad puppies a disservice; The purpose of the Hugo's (according to it's bylaws) is to recognize the best in science fiction/fantasy from the past year. Not what is politically correct, nor what is written by the friends of the voters but what is best in the field. The fact that a few hundred people decide who gets the Hugo's and that even by GRRM's acknowledgement works are chosen for nomination based not on quality but whether the writer and or editor is a friend or nominated you in the present or previous year (thus if you are not a member of the clique even if you are not politically offensive you have little chance of being seriously considered), coupled with the fact that whole categories of authors seem to be totally ignored due to their political or religious beliefs and not the merit of their works makes the Hugo's pretext of being THE AWARD for sci-fi/fantasy less then believable.

[Darth Richard II]

Please list these entire groups of authors being ignored for their "beliefs" rather than "merit".

[Lightysnake88]

"

Which, yeah, that's kinda the point of awards. Like, as a concept. They aren't just a reflection of sales numbers for a reason."

Think you do the Sad puppies a disservice; The purpose of the Hugo's (according to it's bylaws) is to recognize the best in science fiction/fantasy from the past year. Not what is politically correct, nor what is written by the friends of the voters but what is best in the field. The fact that a few hundred people decide who gets the Hugo's and that even by GRRM's acknowledgement works are chosen for nomination based not on quality but whether the writer and or editor is a friend or nominated you in the present or previous year (thus if you are not a member of the clique even if you are not politically offensive you have little chance of being seriously considered), coupled with the fact that whole categories of authors seem to be totally ignored due to their political or religious beliefs and not the merit of their works makes the Hugo's pretext of being THE AWARD for sci-fi/fantasy less then believable.

why do you keep repeating the same debunked arguments?

Also, STILL waiting for you to provide the excluded works by conservative writers. And while I'm at it, we've got at least 3-4 conservatives. Why don't you name the pedophiles that outnumber them? Thus far you're on 'zero.'