"Hey Robert, Lyanna didn't want to be with you"

[Señor de la Tormenta]

He was fighting for Lyanna because he was no where near as hot tempered as Brandon. See folks that smart thinking on Robert part! Brandon is family, he could demand Lyanna back, Robert was simply a betrothed, his words would carry less weight. See! Smart thinking number two! So then Brandon get kidnapped. I am sure Ned was anxious, Robert, who still think about Lyanna until this day, was now probably worried but never fear, a Lord Paramount, Lord Rickard Stark was on his way down. Things will be resolved smoothly. Robert smart thinking three.

People say he didn't fight for her because he didn't rush out right away, then turn around and call him hot head and stupid. Wanting to get Lyanna back diplomatically and without kicking up a major fuss with the king is stupid? It meant he didn't love her?

So when Rickard and Brandon died, well, that meant there was no other option BUT war, and so off to war they went. All diplomatic means to get his betrothed back have failed, time to get her back by brute force. Other lords might have joined him to take down the king, but he only ever wanted Lyanna.

its kind of a fact that Aerys asking for Roberts and Neds heads, and Arryns refusal is what launches the rebelion

[Rhaegarslance]

I'm not sure what people expect Robert to have done when he wasn't in a position to call his banners. He called them as soon as he could, which is when he got back to Storm's End.

He can't call his banners from the Eyrie.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

He didn't need to know him. All Lyanna had to say was "he didn't kidnap me, I loved him" and he's done.

Yes, because prophecies have been prove to not being real in his world :rolleyes:

You're assuming he did those things. We don't know the details but that's not what happened at all.

First, he didn't abandon Elia and the children. They were all well provided and safe in Dragonstone, a well protected fortress and they weren't lacking anything. Also, it's not uncommon for men to leave and women to be in charge of the young children. Fathers were not involved in raising the children as are nowadays.

Second, we don't know why he went to Dorne. His intentions could have been very well political and on the way he met Lyanna. You can assume he did the worst, some of us can also assume he didn't. And until we are told what he actually did, we're both right and wrong.

So, this guy who married the women his father ordered him to marry suddenly decided, probably for the first time of his life, do as he wanted and fell in love with a woman HE chose to love, and he's suddenly a pervert? Do you actually know what that word means?

He did not leave Elia and the children at Dragonstone. They were at the Red Keep, the place most likely to be ravaged after Rhaegar's death. Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys were all murdered at the Red Keep along with Aerys. It was the Queen who was pregnant with Dany and Viserys who fled to Dragonstone. Willem Darry took them from Dragonstone when he discovered the plot to have them killed and fled with the newly born Daenerys, and Viserys. There mother already dead, he took them to Braavos with him.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

Why wouldn’t Ned hide her rapist’s kid and raise him with almost the same luxuries as those legitimate children? He doesn’t hold kids responsible for their parents actions. Aerys kiled his brother and father and Ned still wanted to protect Dany.

Lyanna could get pragnant wilingly or not. So it doesn’t matter. Either way she was with Rhaegar for quite some time. There was no need for Ned to tell the whole truth, he could just said that she wasn’t raped. Then Robert would thought she was just a hostage. No rape, no Jon (in Roberts mind).

There is no benefit in lying (or not clarifying, or just staying silent) about rape. It is possible that Ned (and Howland Reed) never found out what really happened, but he had at least two sources.

So if he knew, why did he keep quite?

Why would he hide her rapist's kid and raise him with almost the same luxuries as those legitimate children? "Promise me Ned."

[thelittledragonthatcould]

He did not leave Elia and the children at Dragonstone. They were at the Red Keep,

Yes he did. From the World Book:

Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell

Not only did he leave her at Dragonstone but she would have either still been pregnant or just given birth as he left in 281 and Aegon was still a baby when he was killed in 283.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

Yes he did. From the World Book:

Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell

Not only did he leave her at Dragonstone but she would have either still been pregnant or just given birth as he left in 281 and Aegon was still a baby when he was killed in 283.

Explain please how it is then that Elia and her children were all killed at the sack of King's Landing? You may have found a mistake in the World Book. Weren't the dead children laid at Robert's feet by Tywin Lannister as a show of fealty?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Explain please how it is then that Elia and her children were all killed at the sack of King's Landing? You may have found a mistake in the World Book. Weren't the dead children laid at Robert's feet by Tywin Lannister as a show of fealty?

When people say he abandoned them they are talking about when he left Dragonstone and kidnapped/disappeared with Lyanna. Elia and her newborn baby/unborn son were still on Dragonstone at this point.

Obviously as the war progressed Aerys brought them to Kings Landing as he wanted Dornes and Lewyn Martells loyalty.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

When people say he abandoned them they are talking about when he left Dragonstone and kidnapped/disappeared with Lyanna. Elia and her newborn baby/unborn son were still on Dragonstone at this point.

Obviously as the war progressed Aerys brought them to Kings Landing as he wanted Dornes and Lewyn Martells loyalty.

I don't think so, but, I will look for it again during my next reading.

[Hodor the Articulate]

All Lords and Ladies are this way. THIS is a not a Robert exclusive trait! When Rhaegar became bethroted to Elia, I am sure Elia didn't know the prince but yet came to accept him. Catelyn feel that NED belong to her and when she brought him some other kid, she hated him for him. They did not fall in love, Ned , INHERITED Catelyn. Cersei did not love Robert, certainly not more than her twin, she she was as fond of him as Lyanna was but STILL went through it anyway. Then there is Sansa and Joffrey, Sansa belonged to Joffrey and no one gainsay this. Margery Tyrell later on belong to Joffrey too.

Anyone that is betrothed pretty much can assume that they have the rights to that person. That's just the way it works in Westeros and matchmaking in Westeros is a crap shoot. If you are lucky you like each other. Using that excuse where Robert view Lyanna as "HIS" as a negative point has got to stop.

Everyone view it that way in Westeros. Only a lucky few can marry for love.

Reading this, I get the impression that you've misunderstood the post you're replying to to. They weren't talking about arranged marriages; they were arguing that Robert didn't ever think of Lyanna as an actual person, with her own thoughts and feelings. It was always only about how he felt about Lyanna, how he was wronged. It never occurred to him that Lyanna might have not been happy to marry him, or that she would have romantic feeling about someone else. That's what the OP meant by "ownership".

[SFDanny]

But on the flip side, Rhaegar was professing his undying love and telling Lyanna that she is his one and only when...Oh yes... I do believe he's already married and with TWO kids. Why... if that doesn't scream true, deep, love that is more meaningful than screwing random girls. I don't know what does!

Another thing I would like to point out is that, he never got any complaint as Lord of Storm End. He just didn't care that much after Lyanna died.

All Lords and Ladies are this way. THIS is a not a Robert exclusive trait! When Rhaegar became bethroted to Elia, I am sure Elia didn't know the prince but yet came to accept him. Catelyn feel that NED belong to her and when she brought him some other kid, she hated him for him. They did not fall in love, Ned , INHERITED Catelyn. Cersei did not love Robert, certainly not more than her twin, she she was as fond of him as Lyanna was but STILL went through it anyway. Then there is Sansa and Joffrey, Sansa belonged to Joffrey and no one gainsay this. Margery Tyrell later on belong to Joffrey too.

Anyone that is betrothed pretty much can assume that they have the rights to that person. That's just the way it works in Westeros and matchmaking in Westeros is a crap shoot. If you are lucky you like each other. Using that excuse where Robert view Lyanna as "HIS" as a negative point has got to stop.

Everyone view it that way in Westeros. Only a lucky few can marry for love.

Carried to the degree Robert takes it is far from what is normal in Westeros. Robert is obsessive in his hatred of all Targaryens based on his "property rights" to Lyanna being violated by Rhaegar and Lyanna running off together. He wants to kill all Targaryens including the children. I call that a negative trait. So does Eddard Stark, btw. Others also think that the feelings of individuals should be consulted in the arrangement of marriages. Yes, it is the duty of children to marry for the needs of their house, but not all Lords would force their children into marriages they hate.

Not all husbands view the marriage vows as one-sided as Robert. Gendry and Bella tells us all we need to know about just how concerned Robert was for the sanctity of his betrothal to Lyanna. Now, to be fair, Lyanna refusing to marry Robert and running off with Rhaegar tells us a lot about her views about the betrothal as well. She had a very different view of who "owned" her. I think she thinks she did.

[John Doe]

Giving away free shit from the Tax money you've been entrusted with doesn't make him generous.

Like building a fleet?

That's the illusion of Robert's character. People equals being charismatic and fun with being good and happy. He had a destructive behaviour, that's not the same as simply enjoying life. He shut down his demons with "fun". That's not healthy and no one should see that as positive.

No one should see abandoning your wife and children to hook up with a fourteen year old girl as positive either.

He was fighting for Lyanna because he was no where near as hot tempered as Brandon. See folks that smart thinking on Robert part! Brandon is family, he could demand Lyanna back, Robert was simply a betrothed, his words would carry less weight. See! Smart thinking number two! So then Brandon get kidnapped. I am sure Ned was anxious, Robert, who still think about Lyanna until this day, was now probably worried but never fear, a Lord Paramount, Lord Rickard Stark was on his way down. Things will be resolved smoothly. Robert smart thinking three.

People say he didn't fight for her because he didn't rush out right away, then turn around and call him hot head and stupid. Wanting to get Lyanna back diplomatically and without kicking up a major fuss with the king is stupid? It meant he didn't love her?

So when Rickard and Brandon died, well, that meant there was no other option BUT war, and so off to war they went. All diplomatic means to get his betrothed back have failed, time to get her back by brute force. Other lords might have joined him to take down the king, but he only ever wanted Lyanna.

I'm not sure what people expect Robert to have done when he wasn't in a position to call his banners. He called them as soon as he could, which is when he got back to Storm's End.

He can't call his banners from the Eyrie.

Also this.