Nami Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Okay he even tells Osha that Robert fought a war to get Lyanna back when Robert fought the war because because his head was called for by the king. Obviously Bran has got some wrong information.I don't think Ned told his kids that Lyanna was raped, yes he talked about Robert but Lyanna he hardly talked about even Arya says so. Bran probably heard gossip and got a romantisized version of the rebellion and from there came to the idea that Lyanna was raped and Robert tried to save her. Interestingly he didn't get the part that Robert was fucking half the kingdom when fighting his "war to get Lyanna back". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 He didn't want Catelyn hurt with the talk of Ashara or a lot of speculation going on about Jon's mother that doesn't mean that he shut up all talk/gossip at Winterfell, Sansa says that Jon's mother was common born that's what she heard.Ned not correcting things about Lyanna is safer for everyone especially Jon. I can see that.Also if others knew she went willingly and thought through that he got back with Jon after Lyanna's death they might link him to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegarslance Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I can see that. Also if others knew she went willingly and thought through that he got back with Jon after Lyanna's death they might link him to her. As opposed to showing up with a baby and telling everybody that Lyanna had died from being repeatedly raped? You don't think that 100% confirming to everybody that Rhaegar had sex with Lyanna would be far more likely to make people think things through and wonder about this kid in his lap than if you left it up to debate that Rhaegar and Lyanna were having sex by only saying that Lyanna left with Rhaegar willingly? You need sex to have a kid. Telling people Rhaegar raped Lyanna is telling them that they had sex. Telling people that Rhaegar and Lyanna were a couple only implies that. Therefore Ned telling everybody that Lyanna was raped is far more likely to make people question Jon's parentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 As opposed to showing up with a baby and telling everybody that Lyanna had died from being repeatedly raped? You don't think that 100% confirming to everybody that Rhaegar had sex with Lyanna would be far more likely to make people think things through and wonder about this kid in his lap than if you left it up to debate that Rhaegar and Lyanna were having sex by only saying that Lyanna left with Rhaegar willingly? You need sex to have a kid. Telling people Rhaegar raped Lyanna is telling them that they had sex. Telling people that Rhaegar and Lyanna were a couple only implies that. Therefore Ned telling everybody that Lyanna was raped is far more likely to make people question Jon's parentage. I think people would think that keeping a non product of rape bastard and raising him with almost the same luxuries as those legitimate children makes more sense to a "Lyanna wanted Rhaegar" story than Lyanna insisting that Ned hide her rapist's kid and him actually following through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Darry Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I think people would think that keeping a non product of rape bastard and raising him with almost the same luxuries as those legitimate children makes more sense to a "Lyanna wanted Rhaegar" story than Lyanna insisting that Ned hide her rapist's kid and him actually following through. Why wouldn’t Ned hide her rapist’s kid and raise him with almost the same luxuries as those legitimate children? He doesn’t hold kids responsible for their parents actions. Aerys kiled his brother and father and Ned still wanted to protect Dany. Lyanna could get pragnant wilingly or not. So it doesn’t matter. Either way she was with Rhaegar for quite some time. There was no need for Ned to tell the whole truth, he could just said that she wasn’t raped. Then Robert would thought she was just a hostage. No rape, no Jon (in Roberts mind). There is no benefit in lying (or not clarifying, or just staying silent) about rape. It is possible that Ned (and Howland Reed) never found out what really happened, but he had at least two sources. So if he knew, why did he keep quite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petyr Patter Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I'm pretty sure we are led to believe Lyanna fell for Rhaeghar hard, and thus it follows she went willingly after him. The fact Rhaeghar's last word was Lyanna (according to a vision, I think), is evidence the attraction was mutual. So, perfect love story. Except, well, he was already married, and by running off and leaving everyone in the dark caused half of Lyanna's family to get killed, and almost all of Rhaeghar's family to killed. The lesson? Love is no replacement for real world politics and can't overcome crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I'm pretty sure we are led to believe Lyanna fell for Rhaeghar hard, Where are we told that? and thus it follows she went willingly after him.Even if she liked him she could still have been forced/pressured into going with him. The fact Rhaeghar's last word was Lyanna (according to a vision, I think), is evidence the attraction was mutual.That only proves he was obsessed with her, not that it was mutual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Just like to remind the good folks that the author himself considers Robert a good guy... with a good amount of flaws... but it's hard to find angels in this story Yes, i know it's off topic, but i like to remind it a couple times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Just like to remind the good folks that the author himself considers Robert a good guy... with a good amount of flaws... but it's hard to find angels in this story Yes, i know it's off topic, but i like to remind it a couple times... Not that I don't believe you, but is there a link to where he says that? It sounds familiar, though. The fact Rhaeghar's last word was Lyanna (according to a vision, I think), is evidence the attraction was mutual. As Little Dragon says above, all this would prove is that Rhaegar had feelings for/was obsessed with Lyanna. I mean, after all, if Robert died at the Trident and that was the last word out of his mouth, would people be saying Lyanna loved him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Not that I don't believe you, but is there a link to where he says that? It sounds familiar, though. No problem... Besides the fact he said a lot of times in interviews he did the "aragorn what if", good man does not mean good king... obviously this is Robert He speaked a lot of Robert´s generosity and good qualities on SSM but they're too many to search... I've read it many times Martin speaking of Robert in a good light... but it's too tiresome to search those... You can ear it in the HBO House Baratheon introduction on youtube, in that one i know he talks about him as a good guy with flaws in some ways... if i'm not mistaken, i can't remember all of it Edit: And c'mon folks, his deathbed scene... read all of it... Martin doesn´t write those to bad people... just good old people with flaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Just like to remind the good folks that the author himself considers Robert a good guy... with a good amount of flaws... but it's hard to find angels in this story Yes, i know it's off topic, but i like to remind it a couple times... Thing is, almost everyone knows/knew Roberts, and they're usually very unpleasant. I personally despise the things that make Robert the character he is. I don't like people like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 I'm pretty sure we are led to believe Lyanna fell for Rhaeghar hard, and thus it follows she went willingly after him. The fact Rhaeghar's last word was Lyanna (according to a vision, I think), is evidence the attraction was mutual. So, perfect love story. Except, well, he was already married, and by running off and leaving everyone in the dark caused half of Lyanna's family to get killed, and almost all of Rhaeghar's family to killed. The lesson? Love is no replacement for real world politics and can't overcome crazy. The lesson is that love in ASOIAF end in tragedy and death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Thing is, almost everyone knows/knew Roberts, and they're usually very unpleasant. I personally despise the things that make Robert the character he is. I don't like people like him. It's never my intention to change someone's opinion of a character, i like good people who themselves are disliked by others... real life is what it is I tend to defend Robert as a good guy with major flaws provoked by intense circumstances most people do not deal with, but i can understand just fine that some folks don´t like the man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Fork Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 It's never my intention to change someone's opinion of a character, i like good people who themselves are disliked by others... real life is what it is I tend to defend Robert as a good guy with major flaws provoked by intense circumstances most people do not deal with, but i can understand just fine that some folks don´t like the man Make an argument for what's good about him, then, other than "hurf durf GRRM says so!". By the time he dies, what exactly is he doing that's so good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 By the time he dies, what exactly is he doing that's so good? Dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Make an argument for what's good about him, then, other than "hurf durf GRRM says so!". By the time he dies, what exactly is he doing that's so good? He's generous, he's talented, and he originally was a very positive person who liked to laugh and enjoy life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksnider05 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 He's generous, he's talented, and he originally was a very positive person who liked to laugh and enjoy life. Giving away free shit from the Tax money you've been entrusted with doesn't make him generous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Make an argument for what's good about him, then, other than "hurf durf GRRM says so!". By the time he dies, what exactly is he doing that's so good? I made lots of arguments already in other topics... and what Martin says tends to be important about Robert and other characters he created... Again, who are the angels in this story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Giving away free shit from the Tax money you've been entrusted with doesn't make him generous. He gave both his brothers large and important castles. And what are you talking about with taxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDanny Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Interestingly he didn't get the part that Robert was fucking half the kingdom when fighting his "war to get Lyanna back". True, but, aside from the fact he isn't likely to tell his young child such things, Ned, himself, doesn't know about Gendry until much later, and he has no clue about Bella. Not that I don't believe Ned knew about Robert's infidelities during the war. Does tell you something about Robert and his "love" for Lyanna doesn't it? Perhaps he is more concerned about his ownership of an idealized Lyanna than anything to do with caring about what Lyanna, the real person, wanted or how she felt? That's my guess anyway. Robert believed Lyanna was stolen from him, because he owned her. He believed Rhaegar raped her because he believed he was the only man who had the "right" to have sex with his betrothed. With Robert is all about him and his rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.