[BOOK SPOILERS] The Death of Ellaria Sand as we knew her

[Mladen]

I remember that. Was it you or Ran whose argument essentially boiled down to 'too many cuts'?

Ran argued that it was too many cuts which allowed Oberyn's stunt to do his work and which made entire duel scene bad and disconnected. He liked Jon's fighting scene in Episode 9, though.

[Rex999]

I think this is one of the few times that books fans have completely lost me

Im sorry but I really could care less about the changes being made to some minor character that I barely even remember.

I think Ellaria was in one chapter of a A Dance with Dragons and she had a very small part.

In the past at least I could understand why book readers were upset about changes to the major characters

but the outrage over changes to such a minor character like Ellaria just seems silly to me

Maybe if they were making massive changes to someone like Oberyn or Arya then I would understand

but as it stands

I don't really care at all about Ellaria being changed for the TV show

[James Arryn]

I think this is one of the few times that books fans have completely lost me

Im sorry but I really could care less about the changes being made to some minor character that I barely even remember.

I think Ellaria was in one chapter of a A Dance with Dragons and she had a very small part.

In the past at least I could understand why book readers were upset about changes to the major characters

but the outrage over changes to such a minor character like Ellaria just seems silly to me

Maybe if they were making massive changes to someone like Oberyn or Arya then I would understand

but as it stands

I don't really care at all about Ellaria being changed for the TV show

Technically she was in 3 chapters at least, unless I'm wrong. Arrival in KL, fight with Mountain, confrontation with Sand Snakes.

[Alex Storm]

I think this is one of the few times that books fans have completely lost me

Im sorry but I really could care less about the changes being made to some minor character that I barely even remember.

I think Ellaria was in one chapter of a A Dance with Dragons and she had a very small part.

In the past at least I could understand why book readers were upset about changes to the major characters

but the outrage over changes to such a minor character like Ellaria just seems silly to me

Maybe if they were making massive changes to someone like Oberyn or Arya then I would understand

but as it stands

I don't really care at all about Ellaria being changed for the TV show

Well personally I don't care all that much if minor characters are changed, as long as the changes make sense with the overall story. Ellaria wanting to torture Myrcella to get back at Cersei makes 0 possible sense. Oberyn not only said that they don't hurt little girls in Dorne, but also said that he doesn't believe children should be punished for their parents crimes. Surely Ellaria isn't stupid enough to think hurting Myrcella is something Oberyn would've wanted. But....... Yea.

Also, why the beef with Cersei? What has Cersei ever done to Dorne? She wasn't involved with the sack and Elia. She didn't force Oberyn to fight for Tyrion. She actually tried to persuade him not to. I don't get her beef with Cersei at all. The only people she should really want dead are the mountain and Tywin..... Which are both already dead.

The changes their making just don't really make sense for so many reasons.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

AGAIN WITH THE SHE'S JUST MINOR I CAN'T EVEN.

[Denam_Pavel]

She was a minor character in the books. In the show she's not so minor. She's gonna be around a lot longer then Oberyn was.

[James Arryn]

She was a minor character in the books.

Argentina just invaded the Faulklands again, thanks to you.

[Red Tiger]

Well personally I don't care all that much if minor characters are changed, as long as the changes make sense with the overall story. Ellaria wanting to torture Myrcella to get back at Cersei makes 0 possible sense. Oberyn not only said that they don't hurt little girls in Dorne, but also said that he doesn't believe children should be punished for their parents crimes. Surely Ellaria isn't stupid enough to think hurting Myrcella is something Oberyn would've wanted. But....... Yea.

This exactly, I don't care if Ellaria saw something horribly traumatizing, saying Ellaria wanting to kill Myrcella slowly is in no way consistent with her previous appearances on the show.

Her behaviour in 502 is not inconsistent with hers in s4. The fierceness Indira Varma brought to the part was the best part of her scenes last year anyways. And their expanding the part means that we get a whole season of her instead of one scene. She's a main cast member now after all and I'd rather have a whole season of her then just one speech. I grant y'all it's a particularly good speech but as trade-offs go I'd rather she have twenty minutes of screentime than the four or five she'd have if they went by the books on this one.

I am calling heavy, elephant-sized, bombs-over-baghdad bullshit on this. Oberyn said she was the love of his life multiple times and how important she was to him, Ellaria seemed to understand Oberyn's anguish over the loss of his innocent sister and her kids. Now a season later she wants to kill Myrcella, an innocent girl, when one of the things Oberyn fucking hated most of all was innocent girls getting killed.

....Yeah, really sounds like somebody Oberyn would love, a woman who basically wants to do to Myrcella what the Lannisters did to Elia. Show Oberyn is rolling in the grave right now.

She was a minor character in the books. In the show she's not so minor. She's gonna be around a lot longer then Oberyn was.

Yup and Ros was around longer than Oberyn was too, this does not necessarily have to be a good thing if the writers have no clue what to do with her.

[Konradsmith]

....Yeah, really sounds like somebody Oberyn would love, a woman who basically wants to do to Myrcella what the Lannisters did to Elia. Show Oberyn is rolling in the grave right now.

He loves his daughters and they want to kill innocent Tommen in the books. There is always a sort of moral dissonance in the want for revenge. Even in Oberyn's.

[Red Tiger]

Yes and the Sand Snakes aren't exactly fan favourites and are basically considered poorly-written characters by most of the fanbase (Sarella aside). Which is why I am barely mentioning them.

Ellaria is actually more popular than them despite not appearing, because once again, she was the woman who truly understood Oberyn and Doran praises her for it.

Also IIRC, the only Sand Snake who wanted Tommen dead was Nym.

[Konradsmith]

Also IIRC, the only Sand Snake who wanted Tommen dead was Nym.

I think Tyene will be the one who kills him though. ;)

[Red Tiger]

I think Tyene will be the one who kills him though. ;)

yeah im thinking the same thing.

What I find really sad about the Sand Snakes (Sarella aside, cause she is interesting), is that they seem to be their weapons and nothing more. Obara has her whip and spear, Tyene her 'ínnocence' and poisons, Nymeria her knives and stealth, but that seems to be the only difference between the 3 character-wise. Other than that they are nothing more than virtually identical war-mongers.

Now if they were war-mongers who had other things going for them in their characterization, it would have been no big deal....but that is literally all there is to them.

[Tywin Smokin a Blunt]

These are the kind of changes that never bother me, taking multiple characters and merging them into one. Ellaria Sand is a minor character at best in the books, I think they simply liked the work the actress did last year and decided to give her a little more to do than sit around and mourn Oberyn. I can't blame them for that.

[RoamingRonin]

Everyone calling Ellaria Sand a minor character is doing God's work.

Also: Septon Meribald's speech that you all love? Completely unnecessary. We'd seen the horrors of war and what happens to broken men through Arya and other POVs like Tyrion, Catelyn and even Jon. By Book Four, GRRM was beating a dead horse so hard it came back to life and bored us all to tears with its life story.

[Red Tiger]

Everyone calling Ellaria Sand a minor character is doing God's work.

Also: Septon Meribald's speech that you all love? Completely unnecessary. We'd seen the horrors of war and what happens to broken men through Arya and other POVs like Tyrion, Catelyn and even Jon. By Book Four, GRRM was beating a dead horse so hard it came back to life and bored us all to tears with its life story.

I am confused as to what you mean by this.

[Mladen]

These are the kind of changes that never bother me, taking multiple characters and merging them into one. Ellaria Sand is a minor character at best in the books, I think they simply liked the work the actress did last year and decided to give her a little more to do than sit around and mourn Oberyn. I can't blame them for that.

Then explain me why do we have Sand Snakes? If the vengeful part in Dorne is given to Ellaria, why in the name of all the Gods do we need three caricatures of Sand Snakes?

I think this is one of the few times that books fans have completely lost me

Im sorry but I really could care less about the changes being made to some minor character that I barely even remember.

I think Ellaria was in one chapter of a A Dance with Dragons and she had a very small part.

In the past at least I could understand why book readers were upset about changes to the major characters

but the outrage over changes to such a minor character like Ellaria just seems silly to me

Maybe if they were making massive changes to someone like Oberyn or Arya then I would understand

but as it stands

I don't really care at all about Ellaria being changed for the TV show

This is a bit narrow-minded. Changes made of Ellaria affected entire Dorne subplot. Let we start that we actually don't have a POV character in Dorne. Now, that is a bigger change. Then, making Ellaria like this made Sand Snakes obsolete. which is, oh, look, another change. So, this is not about one character being changed, this change actually affected entire plot. And that is not a small change anymore.

[Red Tiger]

Then explain me why do we have Sand Snakes? If the vengeful part in Dorne is given to Ellaria, why in the name of all the Gods do we need three caricatures of Sand Snakes?

"Indira, you're going to Dorne this season. This might require for you to take off your clothes".

"I'm sorry but not. It was never part of my contract. Pedro did not even took off his pants in his brothel scenes"

*HBO executives look at each other in honest horror*

...the next day

"CASTING NOTICE: WE REQUIRE THREE GIRLS (ONLY 18 YEARS OLD PLEASE) WITH EXOTIC FEATURES AND ATHLETIC COMPLEXION. THANKS".

I know she meant it as a joke, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the ACTUAL reason.

[Tywin Smokin a Blunt]

Then explain me why do we have Sand Snakes? If the vengeful part in Dorne is given to Ellaria, why in the name of all the Gods do we need three caricatures of Sand Snakes?

This is a bit narrow-minded. Changes made of Ellaria affected entire Dorne subplot. Let we start that we actually don't have a POV character in Dorne. Now, that is a bigger change. Then, making Ellaria like this made Sand Snakes obsolete. which is, oh, look, another change. So, this is not about one character being changed, this change actually affected entire plot. And that is not a small change anymore.

I assume it's because Doran's plan will have 3-4 prongs. One of then may die in their attempted coup, but either way I think we'll see one of them go to court by next season and one go to the High sparrow and maybe the 3rd to Dany.

[Mladen]

I assume it's because Doran's plan will have 3-4 prongs. One of then may die in their attempted coup, but either way I think we'll see one of them go to court by next season and one go to the High sparrow and maybe the 3rd to Dany.

Well, that would actually work. But, the thing is that without Aegon, there is a huge question what will be the Dorne's role.

[RedShirt47]

I think this is one of the few times that books fans have completely lost me

Im sorry but I really could care less about the changes being made to some minor character that I barely even remember.

I think Ellaria was in one chapter of a A Dance with Dragons and she had a very small part.

In the past at least I could understand why book readers were upset about changes to the major characters

but the outrage over changes to such a minor character like Ellaria just seems silly to me

Maybe if they were making massive changes to someone like Oberyn or Arya then I would understand

but as it stands

I don't really care at all about Ellaria being changed for the TV show

I'm with you on this. I don't get it either. But then I didn't get the Tysha uproar either. The show has had to simplify the story so much to fit in onto a tv screen.

I barely remember Ellaria from the books (I've only listened to them once). As long as the show is telling a coherent story (not necessarily the same one as the books) then I'm ok with the changes.

I'm sad there is so Arianne but I can live with it but her absence is much more important than Ellaria being a bit different.

Plus, anger is one of the five stages of grief, give the woman a chance to grieve her love. Let's see how the character is at the end of the series.