[BOOK SPOILERS] The Death of Ellaria Sand as we knew her

[mirthula]

I don't mind Ellaria wanting revenge but I hope they stuck to wanting revenge for what happened to Elia that is what Oberyn wanted too. Tywin is dead but it would have given her character more depth if she talked about getting rid of Lannisters in general from the throne, murdering Myrcella makes her just like Tywin.

I like Dorne as a house I wanted to root for them, but I hate how other than the starks all the other houses are sketched like villains.

First of all Oberyn was killed during Trial by Combat, which are rules of the combat Oberyn knew this and so did she, you fight to death and also Lannisters did not ask Oberyn to volunteer to fight they were conspiring to kill Tyrion not Oberyn so I found Ellaria anger over the top.

[PatrickStormborn]

I doubt the majority of TV viewers are contemplating Ellaria's contradictory stance re Oberyn's views on torturing innocent girls. They see Ellaria, they think of Oberyn. They can understand why she wants revenge.

Ugh I hate this defense so much...

So am I expected to ignore inconsistencies within the show itself(*) just because the average viewer won't pick up on them? I guess critics should just stop reviewing Mad Men, The Good Wife, etc. then.

But it's not just about the revenge - it's about the type of revenge. If Ellaria was shouting at Doran (stupid in itself) to get vengeance on Cersei or the Mountain it would be a completely different story. But she specifically wants to hurt Myrcella, and that's the problem.

(*) And yes, it's from the show. Oberyn promises Cersei that "we don't hurt little girls in Dorne". But clearly Ellaria has different ideas.

I don't think Ellaria is as sadistic and hateful as you all assume. She hasn't hurt anyone. She made a pretty harsh remark. Shes angry. She's grieving.

I mean, I had a bad day at work the other day, and I told my sister I wanna burn the place down. Do I actually want that? NO. Would I ever actually do that? NO. I was grouchy as hell and made a crude remark.

Ellaria will get over it eventually. I think, at least.

I hate to break it to you, but the show is not gonna go in this direction.

Ellaria has had one tiny appearance across two episodes. That means we have to assume that what she says is exactly what she means.

It would be different if we had other scenes to rely on where she showed different feelings, but we don't. They've included this scene to establish that she wants to hurt Myrcella and send Dorne to war against the Lannisters.

[Mladen]

I hate to break it to you, but the show is not gonna go in this direction.

Ellaria has had one tiny appearance across two episodes. That means we have to assume that what she says is exactly what she means.

Indira Varma is credited as the season's member of main cast which means she will get at least several episodes.

[PatrickStormborn]

Indira Varma is credited as the season's member of main cast which means she will get at least several episodes.

I know... And her scene from episode 2 is setting up her storyline for the rest of the season.

Based on the lack of scenes so far we can only infer from her dialogue that she means what she says.

[Fjordgazer]

I know... And her scene from episode 2 is setting up her storyline for the rest of the season.

Based on the lack of scenes so far we can only infer from her dialogue that she means what she says.

As an Ironborn of the internetz (if you know what i mean), i can confirm this.

[Mingolla]

Even if Ellaria change her mind during the season (which is far from certain), her being so extreme is creating structural problems for the (good) story.

1. Generation conflict turned into gender conflict - Ellaria+SS want Myrcella dead while Doran, Areo, Trystane dont want her dead

2. Nobody will be anti-revenge - because Doran is pro-revenge afterall

3. Ellaria´s position leave Arianne´s moderate rebel role out of the show, while SS are reduced to be just Ellaria´s henchmen

4. Wasted good oportunity to introduce SS and their personalities via their conflict with Doran, their introduction in the episode 4 will sucks badly (is there anyone who seen it and liked it? i doubt it)

[Julia Martell]

Can we talk about how I now have a girl crush on Linda after watching her put on her reading glasses and reading a passage out of A Feast of Crows to explain exactly why the Doran/Faullaria scene sucked?

Mingolla: Faullaria having a change of heart is kind of necessary if they’re going to do the Queenmaker leading to Doran spilling his plans route like I think they are. All four of your points are absolutely true. I don’t think I ever would have trusted them to properly handle the subtlety and conflicted feelings of Arianne’s motivations or her “change of heart”, let alone Doran’s.

Faullaria is gonna beg for forgiveness and admit she was wrong to ever do anything. Both things Arianne never did, btw. That is my predictions.

[Prince of the North]

Faullaria is gonna beg for forgiveness and admit she was wrong to ever do anything. Both things Arianne never did, btw. That is my predictions.

Makes sense...but do you think they'll still have Myrcella get injured on the show? I do.

[Julia Martell]

Makes sense...but do you think they'll still have Myrcella get injured on the show? I do.

The set photos that have been around since last autumn suggest not. I have no idea how they’re going to resolve this, given the fact that fucking Jaime Lannister is involved.

[Rex999]

4. Wasted good oportunity to introduce SS and their personalities via their conflict with Doran, their introduction in the episode 4 will sucks badly (is there anyone who seen it and liked it? i doubt it)

The sand snakes could turn out to be terrible but Im going to wait until I have seen more than 1 quick scene in episode 4 before deciding if that is the case.

[Prince of the North]

The set photos that have been around since last autumn suggest not. I have no idea how they’re going to resolve this, given the fact that fucking Jaime Lannister is involved.

Damn! I thought the show runners couldn't resist, basically, some variation of the whole Queenmaker story line. Plus, I thought it could add some drama to the Dorne situation. I mean, if not that then...what? I'm afraid to ask...

[Julia Martell]

Damn! I thought the show runners couldn't resist, basically, some variation of the whole Queenmaker story line. Plus, I thought it could add some drama to the Dorne situation. I mean, if not that then...what? I'm afraid to ask...

Oh no, the QM will be there in some shape or form, even in episode two you can hear Prince Baby Chest Hair saying “you are my Queen” while Faullaria is brooding at them, I just doubt they'll ugly up the pretty girl.

Maybe they will. :dunno: I have no idea what the fuck they’re doing.

[Aemond's Eye]

Arianne did not want to mutilate Myrcella, she wanted to put her on the Iron Throne! This is a horrible, horrible, story change. The worse one of any so far.

The purpose of that is to make Cersei more sympathetic. In the books she aborts Robert's child; in the show he dies in the cradle (which seems odd, as you'd have thought Ned & Cat Stark would have known about the King & Queen's son). In the books she orders the murders of Robert's bastards; in the show she seems powerless and slightly horrified at Joffrey doing so. In the books she plots to have Trystane murdered; in the show she receives a vague threat about Myrcella, and has a valid reason to fear an attempt on the girl's life.

Seriously, it's getting old hat with the changes to Cersei due to D&D liking the character, yet not liking her enough to stick to what she was supposed to be.

[Prince of the North]

Oh no, the QM will be there in some shape or form, even in episode two you can hear Prince Baby Chest Hair saying “you are my Queen” while Faullaria is brooding at them, I just doubt they'll ugly up the pretty girl.

Maybe they will. :dunno: I have no idea what the fuck they’re doing.

Yeah, I just had this thought while replying to something in the "Best Lines of Ep. 5" thread: the show runners could mean to have Doran and Trystane simply press Myrcella's claim to the IT. It would even sort of make sense, I guess...

[HexMachina]

The set photos that have been around since last autumn suggest not. I have no idea how they’re going to resolve this, given the fact that fucking Jaime Lannister is involved.

Which set photos did you mean? I thought we didn't have many of Myrcella/Trystane

[Julia Martell]

Which set photos did you mean? I thought we didn't have many of Myrcella/Trystane

The ones where all the players (Faullaria, Doran, Larry, Trys, and Myrcella, and Areo) are all sitting on couches talking. It’s in, like episode 9, I believe and Myrcella seem, like, hale and healthy, so... I would hunt them down, but I’m too lazy.

[RSasoiaf]

Everyone discussing Ellaria´s emotions.....and no one seems to adress the elefant in the room :)

You dont come from school and threaten your parents if they dont do something about big bully. Because if you threaten your parents, things are going to go south for you and fast (by south I dont mean Dorne´s way).

This is the true Elefant in the room: That Ellaria chooses to threaten Doran and give him that her daughters are with her.

I understand she wants war....but she would get one in Dorne first......

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Everyone discussing Ellaria´s emotions.....and no one seems to adress the elefant in the room :)

You dont come from school and threaten your parents if they dont do something about big bully. Because if you threaten your parents, things are going to go south for you and fast (by south I dont mean Dorne´s way).

This is the true Elefant in the room: That Ellaria chooses to threaten Doran and give him that her daughters are with her.

I understand she wants war....but she would get one in Dorne first......

But Ellaria should be very aware that she has no power. Nor her daughters or Oberyn's.

In Arianne's case, she was the Princess. Some houses could have wanted to win her favour, as she was going to be a ruler eventually. But who is going to ally with Ellaria?

When Doran imprisoned the Sand Snakes, people protested. But that's it. No one actually went to war. Because they knew their lords would kill them all. And no Lord actually wanted a war -unlike what Arianne believed. So, if Ellaria pretended that her displeasure with Doran's calmness was going to make the masses rise, she's definitely gone mad out of grief.

[HexMachina]

The ones where all the players (Faullaria, Doran, Larry, Trys, and Myrcella, and Areo) are all sitting on couches talking. It’s in, like episode 9, I believe and Myrcella seem, like, hale and healthy, so... I would hunt them down, but I’m too lazy.

Thanks! I don't think I've seen those ones, I'll go fishing

[Red Tiger]

Everyone discussing Ellaria´s emotions.....and no one seems to adress the elefant in the room :)

You dont come from school and threaten your parents if they dont do something about big bully. Because if you threaten your parents, things are going to go south for you and fast (by south I dont mean Dorne´s way).

This is the true Elefant in the room: That Ellaria chooses to threaten Doran and give him that her daughters are with her.

I understand she wants war....but she would get one in Dorne first......

Something tells me you havent read the books. Am I right in thinking this?

But Ellaria should be very aware that she has no power. Nor her daughters or Oberyn's.

In Arianne's case, she was the Princess. Some houses could have wanted to win her favour, as she was going to be a ruler eventually. But who is going to ally with Ellaria?

When Doran imprisoned the Sand Snakes, people protested. But that's it. No one actually went to war. Because they knew their lords would kill them all. And no Lord actually wanted a war -unlike what Arianne believed. So, if Ellaria pretended that her displeasure with Doran's calmness was going to make the masses rise, she's definitely gone mad out of grief.

Actually Doran later mentions to Arianne that half of his bannermen wanted to go to war and later on when a Maester poses a toast to Tommen, many lords refuse to participate.