[BOOK SPOILERS] The Death of Ellaria Sand as we knew her

[RSasoiaf]

But Ellaria should be very aware that she has no power. Nor her daughters or Oberyn's.

In Arianne's case, she was the Princess. Some houses could have wanted to win her favour, as she was going to be a ruler eventually. But who is going to ally with Ellaria?

When Doran imprisoned the Sand Snakes, people protested. But that's it. No one actually went to war. Because they knew their lords would kill them all. And no Lord actually wanted a war -unlike what Arianne believed. So, if Ellaria pretended that her displeasure with Doran's calmness was going to make the masses rise, she's definitely gone mad out of grief.

And bigger problem comes in next episodes:

Why did Doran not arrest them on the spot as soon as Ellaria told him their plans to strike Myrcella???

Will no one ask??? Did he not get it clear enough what they are about to do??? Is he against it? Or is he really letting them do it because....he wants it to happen???

Everyone becomes crazy or inept with this script!!!!

[RSasoiaf]

Something tells me you havent read the books. Am I right in thinking this?

You should elaborate better.

Answer to your simple question is: You are wrong :)

[Red Tiger]

You should elaborate better.

Answer to your simple question is: You are wrong :)

The reason I thought this, is because if you've already read the books then you know where Ellaria's threat is gonna take her and why nobody mentions it.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Before anyone jumps and accuses me of WANTING Myrcella to be hurt, I'm just want to say that I don't like Myrcella will be ok. because Sansa will go through the hell she's meant to go in next episodes. Can their Lannister bias be more obvious? What's next? Voldemort appears and gives Jaime a new real hand? Is Hugh Laurie going to be cast as Tyrion from now because MAGIC! helped him be taller and fit?

Also, Myrcella being hurt has a purpose and a meaning. It's not that Arianne suddenly says "oh, noes! what have I done?!". Myrcella getting hurt is what makes DORAN react and say "ok, I think it's time I talk with my daughter because we're fucked" and that leads to them actually understanding each other as equals and participants of the same goal.

If Myrcella is ok, then Ellaria will simply change his heart because whatever. Maybe because Doran has been right all along.

[Fjordgazer]

Can their Lannister bias be more obvious? What's next?

At this rate, Jaime and Cersei (or Larry & Carol, if you will) will be like Romeo and Juliette in the series Finale... but surviving.

[Dragon in the North]

Your argument is that because some people do what Ellaria did, then it's ok. Characterization is what gives the characters consistence. Robb and Jon are very much following Ned's steps in everything they did. It's like saying it's ok. that Jon and Robb do things that Ned would never do because some kids choose to be the opposite of their parents. It's ok. for them, not for Jon and Robb, who HAVE BEEN DEFINED AS believing the things Ned did were right.

My argument is that Ellaria's actions are consistent within the confines of her character. Your argument is that because Oberyn was against killing little girls, she should be too in order to preserve his memory, but revenge doesn't work that way. Revenge is a selfish act used to make yourself feel better and has nothing to do about what the other person would want. Ellaria isn't thinking about what Oberyn would think upon the matter but is instead concentrating on the pain and the anger that Oberyn's death had left her.

You're absolutely right. Revenge is senseless. But that's not the problem in this situation...at least, it isn't the problem for me. Ellaria wanting revenge for Oberyn is a logical, common reaction because the love of her life has been killed...but it's the way that she wants to get revenge that doesn't make sense. She wants to "take it out on" an innocent child to "get back at" the child's family. This after the very person she wants revenge for declared from the moral high ground that "We don't hurt women and children in Dorne". It just makes it seem like Ellaria must not have cared all that much for Oberyn or his values after all (while it certainly seemed were basically on the same page before his death).

I agree that Ellaria's comment about sending Myrcella's fingers to Cersei one at a time was a little over the top, but I still have trouble understanding how it's inconsistent with her season 4 character. She has had scenes in brothels, at the wedding, and at the Mountain fight, but Oberyn was the center of all of those scenes. The most memorable thing about her to me was her bloodcurdling scream after Oberyn's face was obliterated.

[Fjordgazer]

The most memorable thing about her to me was her bloodcurdling scream after Oberyn's face was obliterated.

You know, a scream so loud and dramatic is tough to sell for an actor (very hard not to look ridiculous or over the top), and Indira Varma pulled it off. Too bad that they're (ATM) wasting her.

[Red Tiger]

Before anyone jumps and accuses me of WANTING Myrcella to be hurt, I'm just want to say that I don't like Myrcella will be ok. because Sansa will go through the hell she's meant to go in next episodes. Can their Lannister bias be more obvious? What's next? Voldemort appears and gives Jaime a new real hand? Is Hugh Laurie going to be cast as Tyrion from now because MAGIC! helped him be taller and fit?

Also, Myrcella being hurt has a purpose and a meaning. It's not that Arianne suddenly says "oh, noes! what have I done?!". Myrcella getting hurt is what makes DORAN react and say "ok, I think it's time I talk with my daughter because we're fucked" and that leads to them actually understanding each other as equals and participants of the same goal.

If Myrcella is ok, then Ellaria will simply change his heart because whatever. Maybe because Doran has been right all along.

Well, this is the same show where Tyrion ended up betrayed by Shae cause she was too dumb to realize he was looking out for her safety.

So your nightmare will most likely come true.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Before anyone jumps and accuses me of WANTING Myrcella to be hurt, I'm just want to say that I don't like Myrcella will be ok. because Sansa will go through the hell she's meant to go in next episodes. Can their Lannister bias be more obvious? What's next? Voldemort appears and gives Jaime a new real hand? Is Hugh Laurie going to be cast as Tyrion from now because MAGIC! helped him be taller and fit?

Also, Myrcella being hurt has a purpose and a meaning. It's not that Arianne suddenly says "oh, noes! what have I done?!". Myrcella getting hurt is what makes DORAN react and say "ok, I think it's time I talk with my daughter because we're fucked" and that leads to them actually understanding each other as equals and participants of the same goal.

If Myrcella is ok, then Ellaria will simply change his heart because whatever. Maybe because Doran has been right all along.

The show is obsessed into white-washing the Lannisters. Remember when Tywin almost adopted Arya? If it weren't for Charles Dance's perfect acting, It would be one plot holes.

[RSasoiaf]

The reason I thought this, is because if you've already read the books then you know where Ellaria's threat is gonna take her and why nobody mentions it.

Well, the series does not follow the books 100% so...not so sure what you think will happen. If you want to tell me what is your scenario and what will happen with everyone, I can say what I think about it.

As for the books, it was Arianne and not Ellaria who was really doing the plot. Also the plot was to crown Myrcella. And Arianne was just Doran´s daughter. Add to that with Quentyn to become 7 kingdoms king (or so Doran hopes for), Arianne will be the next ruller of Dorne. Its quite a different position from where to challenge Doran. Arianne can actually start a civil revolt and act as a rightful pretender. Ellaria and the SandSnakes could not! They would always have to back either Doran, Arianne, Trystane or Quentyn. And no one would go with them if they would have threatened the entire royal house. And Doran actually decided on arresting the SandSnakes when he thought they were going against his will. And still, his main concern was still Arianne and this was why he finally decided to tell her his plans and the Fire and Blood. Because he did not want to fight against Aryanne and after arresting the SandSnakes he was starting to fear he would have to fight his daughter.

Long Story short: the whole book script depends largely on Aryanne being older then Trystane and on her being the next in line with Quentyn away and out of the picture.

Considering also how Doran is seen as somewhat disabled, Aryanne is almost "de facto" ruller for a lot of practical stuff on the ground.

And this is why a plot to crown Myrcella can go on with Aryanne behind it.

And why a counter-atack against this plot can happen with terrible consequences to Myrcella.

All in all, I dont think the series will depict nearly half of this complexity. And a lot of stuff will just be out of place. But its my guess and we will see.

As for now, I stand by my view that Ellaria and the SandSnakes should not and could not threaten both their Lord and his heir (by proxy threatening his bride).

[HexMachina]

At this rate, Jaime and Cersei (or Larry & Carol, if you will) will be like Romeo and Juliette in the series Finale... but surviving.

And then they adopt Tyrion and follow the yellow brick Kingsroad all the way North and Jaime kills the Others and they all live happily ever after

[Ser Creighton]

Before anyone jumps and accuses me of WANTING Myrcella to be hurt, I'm just want to say that I don't like Myrcella will be ok. because Sansa will go through the hell she's meant to go in next episodes. Can their Lannister bias be more obvious? What's next? Voldemort appears and gives Jaime a new real hand? Is Hugh Laurie going to be cast as Tyrion from now because MAGIC! helped him be taller and fit?

Also, Myrcella being hurt has a purpose and a meaning. It's not that Arianne suddenly says "oh, noes! what have I done?!". Myrcella getting hurt is what makes DORAN react and say "ok, I think it's time I talk with my daughter because we're fucked" and that leads to them actually understanding each other as equals and participants of the same goal.

If Myrcella is ok, then Ellaria will simply change his heart because whatever. Maybe because Doran has been right all along.

Now come on peaches, lets turn that frown upside down. See Jaime shows and pulls the Arianna act trying to take Myrcella but gets caught. Then Ellaria abducts Myrcella with the help of the Snakes, at Which point Doran send Jaime, Bronn and Hotah to retrieve her because Jaime says some really charming shit. They find Ellaria, and return with Myrcella and Cruella Deville. Doran offers to let Myrcella return to KL but Jiame will say no because it's not safe there. Which will not make sense as she was just abducted, but who cares. Then ater Bronn and Jaime skip home Bronn will be like who are you hooking me up with and Jaime will be like Sansa Stark. Why? Who the fucks knows I am blindfolded and throwing darts at pictures on a wall. Flash back to Doran and Ellaria and Doran is all like you were stinky, and Ellaria is all like no you can't let Tryst be with her. There is another Targaryen, Daenarys Targaryen and she is rich and powerful with and army and 3 dragons, Oberyn told me so. He must be free to Wed her, not this chid of treason and she will spit on Myrcella. Doran will be like OMG another Targaryen, ha I already knew that, then he will Stab Myrecella, and Tryst will stab her and finally Ellaria.

Doran will be like yeah I just wated to frame Jaime and Bronn for this, sso I needed them to come here because I knew they would after I sent them her necklace and used my Glass candel to see the future. You see der Ellaria, Tryst is not just any Martell, he is the love Child of Oberyn and Rhaegar, and I have a secret contract for him to Marry Viserys but he is dead so I must use the girl, though I will have to make the babies with her. But before I send him there lets do a blood sacrifice. Pulls out Tommen, hahaha, while his sworn protector was running all over Dorne looking for Myrcella, I had Tommen kidnapped, hahahahaha, stab, stab, stab, and then they also kill Ser Pounce.

Now doesn't that make you feelz all betters? Come on, who feelz all betters? That's right puddin, you feelz all betters.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

...I think it would be better if Ellaria simply says she's from the night.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Before anyone jumps and accuses me of WANTING Myrcella to be hurt, I'm just want to say that I don't like Myrcella will be ok. because Sansa will go through the hell she's meant to go in next episodes. Can their Lannister bias be more obvious? What's next? Voldemort appears and gives Jaime a new real hand? Is Hugh Laurie going to be cast as Tyrion from now because MAGIC! helped him be taller and fit?

Also, Myrcella being hurt has a purpose and a meaning. It's not that Arianne suddenly says "oh, noes! what have I done?!". Myrcella getting hurt is what makes DORAN react and say "ok, I think it's time I talk with my daughter because we're fucked" and that leads to them actually understanding each other as equals and participants of the same goal.

If Myrcella is ok, then Ellaria will simply change his heart because whatever. Maybe because Doran has been right all along.

Yeah, Myrcella should, at the very least, get George Weasley'd. That totally fucks the Martells over and adds a ticking clock element to that storyline. That's why I think Dorkstar's sword was poisoned and Myrcella is slowly dying, but it wouldn't surprise me if they kill her outright on the show.

Unless they want her and Trystane to play part of Aegon's role and have them attack Storm's End because Myrcella has a claim over the castle

[El Guapo]

The show is obsessed into white-washing the Lannisters. Remember when Tywin almost adopted Arya? If it weren't for Charles Dance's perfect acting, It would be one plot holes.

I don't. I remember Tywin finding her amusing for a few episodes and then leaving her in the tender care of Ser Gregor Clegane when he left.

[Lord Sapna]

I don't. I remember Tywin finding her amusing for a few episodes and then leaving her in the tender care of Ser Gregor Clegane when he left.

Lol excactly way to exaggerate. Apparently the definition of adoption is gave leftover food to, and then have a brief chat.

[Lord Sapna]

I'm open to discussing another character that drastically changed from one book to the next. After a traumatic experience. Tyrion lannister. A greyer character in the book sure, but not really a bad one all things considered. He talks about his first wife and how he was forced to watch her be gang raped and then forced to take part. He feels guilt about this. He doesn't consumate his marriage to Sansa. Despite marital rape not excisting in his society and him having everything to gain (his fathers approval, a kingdom) he doesn't go ahead with it.

Then he finds out that Tysha wasn't a whore and his father put her through that experience as she was not a suitable partner for him. What a horrible traumatic experience. He loses his father and shae (even if he doesn't care for her as much.) and then how does he respond when we see him in two books. He threatens to mutualite a slave and rapes her. Tyrion doesn't even have the excuse of growing up in Essos and believing slavery was right. Suddenly he's cruel for crueltys sake which he wasn't before. Actually this was the most disappointing thing about feast and dance for me, not the wealth of new characters or plots, but the change to Tyrion. Suddenly I didn't want to root for anyone anymore, and as grey as everyone is in the real world. It's hard reading about characters that just disgust you, for me anyway.

I'm sure people are going to point out 1000 reasons why the really well established Tyrion can suddenly start venting his rage on a young woman that had nothing to do with anything bad that happened to him, but Ellaria for some reason can't change after 3 scenes and an equally traumatic experience but I think the main reason will be because a lot of posters on here think George can do no wrong.

[Ser Creighton]

...I think it would be better if Ellaria simply says she's from the night.

Maybe she will.

[Fjordgazer]

Ellaria for some reason can't change after 3 scenes and an equally traumatic experience but I think the main reason will be because a lot of posters on here think George can do no wrong.

See, it always comes back to the we swallow everything GRRM throws at us "argument". Sometimes (not pointing fingers) coming from people who literally buy everything D&D sell them. Pot calling the kettle black never applied as much.

[Lord Sapna]

Fjordgazer who's we? I'm pointing out a situation in which a similar drastic character change happened. I didn't think either were massively far fetched.