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[Book Spoilers] EP504 Discussion

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He's already sick. There's no way he's going to leave at this point...pretty sure he's going to die within the next few episodes.

Maybe that's what prompts Jon to send off Sam. The Wall needs a new Maester and he wants Sam to be it.

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So I looked really carefully and none of the idiots complaining about LF's scheme last week have admitted that they were completely and utterly wrong. Not that I expected it.



And we now see the point of the brothel scene in episode 1, which was pretty obvious at the time given that the show sent out four episodes worth of previews, presumably to forestall that kind of idiocy.







Because he's been ordered to return to KL immediately.





Yep, LF is going to KL because of Cersei but I don't think it is to help her. More likely he is going to be setting her up.






Me too. Sansa's makes an iota of sense..Ellaria's doesnt..again, how are you murdered when you volunteer to be a champion in a trial by combat?





In the books, the sand snakes were pinheads trying to start a war. People who want to start wars tend to think themselves a lot smarter than they really are. Think Dick Cheney, he thought he was really smart but when it came to like actual strategy he turned out to be a complete fuckwit.







Perhaps he's using her as bait to get the North to rise against the Boltons. Also, he can now tell Cersei that Sansa ran away to WInterfell from KL and the Boltons are sheltering her. There goes the Boltons' cover from KL.





Maybe, or maybe another scheme. It is clear LF does not reveal everything at once.






As much as people hate it. I understand killing off Barristan. It opens the door for Jorah's return. The audience is heavily invested in Jorah and Dany's relationship. She will need some she can trust to fill the void. I now Jorah betrayed her, but it opens up for a redemption arc for Jorah. So I can rock with it.





It makes her need Tyrion a lot more. Which means he isn't going to be getting there soon.






I think Selyse will sacrifice Shireen if theres a Pink Letter..she'll do it thinking a sacrifice of royal blood will help Stannis





They will try. But I don't think they are going to succeed.



A theory - I think Mel wrote the 'Bastard' letter so that she could rescue Jon. She knows he is a Targarean. She is about to ditch Stannis for him, or would like to.


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He's already sick. There's no way he's going to leave at this point...pretty sure he's going to die within the next few episodes.

I think he is going to die the next episode (that's why it's called Kill the boy). If Barristan dies next week too, it will draw another parallel between Jon and Dany: both of their Ā«counselorsĀ» will be dead.

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I was having a hard time enjoying all the blatant R+L=J hints smacking me over the head with how awful Dorne (as a city no less, stupid credits), the Sand Snakes, everything with Jaime and Bronn and watching one of the greatest living knights in Westeros be felled by the Sons of the Harpy.



Ugh.



Tyrion and Jorah's epic bro-trip is at least proving to be good. And that Stannis/Shireen scene is everything people promised it would be.

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I wonder if that reference is strong enough. I look forward to seeing what the unsullied say about it. Some have already started to suspect.

Now that the show has caught up with the leak I can speak more. I know a few who watched these early and seemed like they were starting to put the pieces together. Definitely seeing them seeing the R+L part, but not quite to J yet.

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Hey House Harrisom Stannis actually does have the larger army. Unless you just haven't been watching the last year or so since you are too busy cursing every other word. Stannis and Davos went to the iron bank, got the loan and the army. Or did you not watch season 4 finales beginning when his huge army did a double pincer against the wildlings and crushed them. GAME OF THRONES ISNT A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE. In the show Stannis has more soldiers then the Boltons. Roose even said last week the Boltons would get destroyed if the rest of the north attacks them combined.

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I think the point of Shireen's greyscale being brought up in both book and show is that it makes the superstitious wildlings a presence that won't lift a finger, and would actually actively support her death when Mel gets around to burning her.


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I loved Ser Grandpa, but we need some serious thinning of characters. And as mentioned, if Jon and Dany are to become great leaders in their own right, the support needs to be kicked out from under them so they can learn to stand on their own will.


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Dislike:

Melisandre's lack of subtlety with Jon. I literally burst out laughing when she bared her breasts to him. Seduce him, yes, but a little more subtlety, please.

I didn't buy that Cersei would let Tommen go by himself into danger. Even people who HATE Cersei think she loves her children. That seemed out of character.

As someone mentioned above, the Sparrows are too much like ISIS. I liked them better when they were genuinely trying to protect the smallfolk, septons, and septas. I also thought it was out of character for Cersei to suggest rearming them. I would have liked to see her try to win the High Sparrow over and then begrudgingly allow them to rearm. Also would have liked to see her convince Tommen to sign a decree to that effect.

I think part of the point of the Mel scene was that it didn't work and there was no way it would have.

The sparrows in the book seemed to be the Iranian Revolutionary Guard in the books and the High Sparrow the Ayatollah with a bit of Charles Mason thrown in. The show is pretty accurate to that sort of behavior. They are nowhere near like ISIS.

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I didn't buy that Cersei would let Tommen go by himself into danger. Even people who HATE Cersei think she loves her children. That seemed out of character.

Tommen didn't go by himself. He went with the Kingsguard as well as a bunch of Lannister soldiers.

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I got the impression that Tyrion will replace Ser Barristan. We've already had Varys telling Tyrion he would be a good advisor plus tonight Tyrion was telling Jorah that the queen may be more receptive to him than Jorah.

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This season is absolutely mediocre. Dreadfully mediocre.

When did it all go completely down the shitter?

At least Season 4 had some semblance of enjoyment and adaptational faithfulness.

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GoT rant on R+L episode

SPOILER warning

With overwhelming evidence pointing at R+L imagery from books all of the episode tonight, i cant help but reflect on the one scene btwn Mel and Jon...her temptation and blatant Hypocrisy are clear in many ways...the religion she is so devout to...is the side of light/life...fighting against death/sideways8faces...light is equated to fire, by her account and death to ice.

But she tempts Jon into creating an agent of 'light'...the shadow of death!

From Jons perspective, why is he the ultimate Hero...AAreborn or PtWP?

Jon has both the gods of death and life...in him...by blood, experience, and belief...if he is both Stark, of the old gods of ice/death (indigenous Westerosi) and Targ, of the FireReligion of rebirth (from the land of Valyria and Dragons)...and has his father-wardens honor (and stubbornness)...he has experienced humility through bullying about his 'Bastard' label (and can empathize with Tyrion over these shared similar experiences)...he understands both mercy (gifted? to Olly) and justice (dealt to Janos) and can dish both out where appropriate...and believes incredibly strongly...in self...moral compass...then he can see through her bluster, bravado and glamours...he knows her to be the hypocrite she is...she purports to 'know' because she peers into fires...but her methods are unjust and hurt those she claims to be protecting!

This is why Jon deserves to ride a Dragon!

Kinda hoping (in TWoW) Dany will arrive on Drogon, and Bran will warg into another for Tyrion to ride, while Jon gets 'saved' by the third...clearly i cant see Jon is being un-revivable!

Speaking of theImp, how did you like Jorah letting him know he'd gotten his point across...visiting the DragonQueen is not in his (their) best interest (right away)...and that Tyrion had put his foot in his mouth again by saying too much...all in one punch?

That quick wit and loose lips will always get ya!

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As others have mentioned I think it's safe to say Shireen and her king's blood will end up leaving with Sam, and Gilly. The scene with her teaching Gilly to read made it on screen for a reason. Who knows if Maester Aemon will die before the trip, or not.

Oh that would be interesting, very interesting. And for all her snobbery, Selyse is the one likely to harm Shireen and Gilly is more likely to save her.

Though what they do with Shireen after leaving the Wall is another problem. Sending away the lawful heir to the throne is much dangerous than sending away Mance Rayder's son.

I think Aemon will die before Sam's trip (if there is a trip). Because in the trailer, we can see two scenes of funeral pyres at the Wall, and one was clearly a man being burnt at stake (Mance), the other showed a man lying on a pyre. I'm guessing it will be Aemon. If I'm right, Aemon will die at the Wall. Most probably 'Kill the boy' is his last words.

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I liked the Stannis-Shireen scene.We know that Shireen is probably one of the very few who survived the Greyscale spreading throughout the body,naturally there had to be a back-story for that,this scene covers that very well.

Stannis mentions that he summoned every maester,healer and apothecary. Could it be that Melisandre was the one who finally stopped the spreading? Makes sense for Selyse to be eternally grateful and believing in her and for Stannis to take her under his service.

R'hllor could hold the cure for greyscale,ties up welll with what that other red priest in Volantis was saying.

I'm pretty sure that if this were the case we would have hear something about it. From Selyse if not from Melisande herself.

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So I looked really carefully and none of the idiots complaining about LF's scheme last week have admitted that they were completely and utterly wrong. Not that I expected it.

I started a thread last week about Littlefinger's schemes and I don't see anything that has been proved by this episode. I did notice he gave Sansa the same advice he gives her in the leaked chapter about making Harry the Heir hers. If they try to combine Harry with Ramsay I may be ill.

The lemon cakes who like dark Sansa will likely get some more of that but she'll also be out of control of the situation more often than not.

Varys can't get back quick enough for me.

Edited by LadySharpTeeth

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Who was the talking KG ? Jaime, Trant and an unnamed KG who left with Myrcella (as seen in S2 boat scene) are not in KG, and we have 5 KG with Tommen ?


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So I looked really carefully and none of the idiots complaining about LF's scheme last week have admitted that they were completely and utterly wrong. Not that I expected it.

And we now see the point of the brothel scene in episode 1, which was pretty obvious at the time given that the show sent out four episodes worth of previews, presumably to forestall that kind of idiocy.

Yep, LF is going to KL because of Cersei but I don't think it is to help her. More likely he is going to be setting her up.

In the books, the sand snakes were pinheads trying to start a war. People who want to start wars tend to think themselves a lot smarter than they really are. Think Dick Cheney, he thought he was really smart but when it came to like actual strategy he turned out to be a complete fuckwit.

Maybe, or maybe another scheme. It is clear LF does not reveal everything at once.

It makes her need Tyrion a lot more. Which means he isn't going to be getting there soon.

They will try. But I don't think they are going to succeed.

A theory - I think Mel wrote the 'Bastard' letter so that she could rescue Jon. She knows he is a Targarean. She is about to ditch Stannis for him, or would like to.

so you believe that Mel knew that Jon would go south, and that the Thorne would use this to stage a coup?

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I think the point of Shireen's greyscale being brought up in both book and show is that it makes the superstitious wildlings a presence that won't lift a finger, and would actually actively support her death when Mel gets around to burning her.

It's also a foreshadowing for someone else getting grayscale, like Jorah right after hm and Tyrian look at the dragon flying overhead in next weeks episode.

Who was the talking KG ? Jaime, Trant and an unnamed KG who left with Myrcella (as seen in S2 boat scene) are not in KG, and we have 5 KG with Tommen ?

The unscene KG that left with Marcella could have returned to King's Landing after she was safely in Dorne.

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-Changing Barristan's Rhaegar story with Dany. It was so much more banal, cliche, and typical than what is revealed in the books. Gone is Barristan revealing the mystery of what Rhaegar read that made him decide to become a warrior, gone is the mysterious aloofness and seeming despair that plagued him. Instead he liked to be a fucking mummer who got drunk with knights. What a bro right D&D?! No, fuck you once more

omg dude. I'm wetting myself laughing at the bro comment. Hilarious. PM me the offensive content removed part. :cool4:

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