[Book Spoilers] EP506 Discussion

[Ruin]

Nym wasn't bad with the whip. And didn't they film that fight scene in a setting in where they had to make sure they were extremely careful? Not defending or supporting the scene, but just a thought.

[Jonathan N]

Nym wasn't bad with the whip. And didn't they film that fight scene in a setting in where they had to make sure they were extremely careful? Not defending or supporting the scene, but just a thought.

Maybe somebody already made this point upthread, but I found it profoundly implausible that armed men/women could easily access Tristan and Myrcella in the Water gardens. It may be possible that sandsnakes could get n as insiders/family, but Jaime and Bronn??? No way

[moviefan050608]

Maybe somebody already made this point upthread, but I found it profoundly implausible that armed men/women could easily access Tristan and Myrcella in the Water gardens. It may be possible that sandsnakes could get n as insiders/family, but Jaime and Bronn??? No way

I think the point was they snuck off so they could make out which made it possible for them to be attacked with no one around.

[Grail King]

Ramsey Roose or walda will die and I believe it will be the tears of Lys that I feel is in Sansa's dagger necklace.

[Varys Imilitude]

Without rewatching, was it me, or was the entire episode not in the books? Am I right? None of the things that happened, and none of the dialogue was in the books?

I guess the Arya stuff was close. But, virtually all of the dialogue, and events were not written by GRRM. What a coincidence that it sucked.

The show is in hyper-nosedive mode.

[sonsastronk]

Without rewatching, was it me, or was the entire episode not in the books? Am I right? None of the things that happened, and none of the dialogue was in the books?

I guess the Arya stuff was close. But, virtually all of the dialogue, and events were not written by GRRM. What a coincidence that it sucked.

The show is in hyper-nosedive mode.

Arya's scenes have sucked since season two.

[aussie_ironborn]

Mate, if it were Jeyne Poole in the show like it should be, I couldn't care less if they implied Ramseys bitches were involved.

Plus it cheats us out of the moment where the boltons realize they've been given a fraud to marry😂

Sansa is a stark, lord eddards blood, not for the likes of the bastard Ramsay Snow

[Ross2013]

Bolton:

"Hey Cersie, LF put this all together. Ask Sansa, he allowed her to be raped by my son."

Plan ruined.

You think Roose is going to take a ride with Sansa to KL to have this face to face meeting? Not likely. And a raven? Even if Roose would send one, why would Cersei believe a turncloak who stabbed his own king over LF, who from her point of view, is one of her most loyal friends.

[Jonathan N]

Yeah, so sad. I laughed out loud at that one in disbelief. But what totally cracked me up was the fucking birthmark being the definitive evidence on the trial, in a twist straight out of your grandma's soap operas.

This. The guy supposedly squired for Loras, surely he had ample chances to see him naked under ordinary circumstances ? How does it prove anything???

[MacknNSweetJones]

That Sansa scene made me angry, I saw it coming from a thousand miles away in the books and on TV. I get it tho. She's definitely about to become colder/smarter/ lose her naive thinking. She's going to play the game, maybe not right now but soon.

As soon as that scene started all I could think of was Sansa betraying her dad which is the domino effect.

[of man and wolf]

Hey all! I'm back this week to tell you why this episode was terrible! Rated PG-13 for this forum so I don't get the mods angry again!

-This Arya school bully storyline is so stupid and cringe-worthy. Do we have some sort of HOTUD rivalry now? Do D&D think that is cool? And if her "story" was true it makes no sense.

-Jorah and Tyrion are already bros and BFF's after a brief stroll. Only D&D think characters in the series are this simplistic.

-HOW DOES TYRION KNOW THE EXACT DETAILS OF JEOR'S DEATH. It happened nearly the exact time as the purple wedding. EVERYTHING IN WESTEROS IS KNOWN INSTANTLY IN THE SHOW.

-Arya performs an abortion allegory. She's pro-choice. Oooooo deeep! This is what we're going to get instead of cat of the canals me thinks

-Jorah is drawn to Dany because of some sort of admiration and conviction that she's destined for greatness? Not for wanting her? This makes no sense why he'd be so into her then, there's nothing ever indicated Jorah cares about this kind of thing. I think it's because D&D want to make him seem "nicer" and can't understand shades of grey. Why do D&D whitewash every character in this show besides the not-so-bad ones they go out of their way to demonize?

-Reminder that the ruins of old Valyria, the terror of the world and a place of demons and superstition, is a lovely looking green temperate archipelago. Lets all go on vacation there!

-The slaver scene is again just a platform for some LEL TYRION COMEDY! Why do D&D have to insert every Tyrion moment with some comedy? Is this all they think the character is? The slaver arc in the books is some dark shit for Tyrion and now he's just being goofy and XDDDDD.

-The Pirate in freakin Old Vayria knows who Jaime Lannister and the Kingslayer is. Plus can we talk how stupid this whole "keep him alive so we can prove he has a dwarf cock!" thing is? It makes no sense, dwarf cock isn't that valuable and there's lots of reasons to keep Tyrion alive anyway. D&D's attempts at XD GOOFY COMEDYZ is creating logistical inconsistencies again.

-Oh look it's LF and the Sparrows, and the Sparrows are the devil incarnate again terrorizing KL for no apparent reason. Because religion baaaaaaad say D&D. Goddamn remember when this plot had shades and suitability to it?

-And top keks at this. CERSEI DOESN'T KNOW SANSA IS MARRIED TO RAMSAY. This when everybody in the freakin world knows the exact details of the Red Wedding and everything else in the goddamn realm. Not to mention the bafflingly stupid idea that Roose would keep this to himself. Why? To not piss off the Lannisters? What does Roose hope to gain here? Well how about you marry someone OTHER than Sansa so you get Lannisters AND Winterfell. This of course leads us to the book plot, where people aren't stupid. Also why don't the Freys seem to exist anymore?

-Littlefinger's plan makes no sense. I bet D&D thought they were being OH SO CLEVER with this and mimicking Gurm's master-manipulator-baelish once more. OOOO He's taking down the Boltons now! How LE SMART D&D must say. But no, unlike his past plans this D&D created-one is moronic. It all relies on the fact that Cersei will not ask or find out from Roose, Ramsay, everyone in the Vale who knows Sansa was blatantly there, the people at the tavern, Brienne, etc.. that Sansa had belonged to Baelish previously and thus expose the entire stunt as his. What is stopping Roose from saying "oh yeah Baelish was the one who arranged this marriage" and not offering a load of evidence?. On top of that this in the show Westeros, where everyone knows everything about everybody. BRAVO D&D, AND BRAVO BAELISH, FOR THE FREAKIN STUPIDEST MASTER PLAN OF ALL TIME. Stick to the books if you want real scheming you dumb dumbs.

-Why do they call Hotah's weapon an axe when it isn't an axe?

-This is top keks. Jaime and Bronn just STROLL INTO THE WATERGARDENS, a residence of the Royal Family of Dorne, without any effort. Oooooh we're in disguise! Then they plan to just grab a princess guarded 24/7 by guards IN BROAD DAYLIGHT. This literally Scooby Doo-tier writing, D&D. BRAVO.

-Trystane and Mycrella are the most cringe-worthy vapid crap of the year. This is what we get instead of Quentyn's battles across Essos.

-The Sand Snakes fight scene was awful and awkward. I have no idea what D&D hope to accomplish here. Do they think this LE STRONK WYMZ trope will automatically make us love it? Somehow they took a lackluster book plot/characters and made it 10x's worse.

-Not to mention Ellaria's plot makes no sense. So they let Jaime INTO THE WATERGARDENS and murder him there in front of everybody. I bet you won't get caught, and I bet this will end well. Why not murder him before or after he leaves? And clearly they intended to get away with it, Ellaria was shocked at her capture. Remember when Arianne actually used strategy and subterfuge in her own scheming yet it was still stupid for book standards because she was a novice? Yeah, Arriane is a rocket science for show standards.

-WHY DID OLENNA'S CONVOY HALT. She clearly didn't order it, and there was no reason for it at all. Was it just for comedic timing? Does the universe and its laws now revolve around D&D's lel funny humor?

-Olenna showing up to scold Cersei instead of Mace. This is stupid. Mace may be dim in the books but he isn't the barely-functional handicap he is in the show. Why didn't he do this with Cersei? He's the Lord of Highgarden and most powerful man in the realm by this point. On top of that show-Cersei was somehow able to dismiss Mace without a second thought, so why doesn't she do this to Olenna who holds no real authority? Does the whole realm just automatically "know" Olenna is the one who pulls the strings and somehow that converts itself into more legal authority? Even from the dumbed down show perspective this makes no sense.

-Loras being charged for gay sex. Why is this a big thing? It's never established ANYWHERE that this is that big of a deal even if it's a social taboo and stigma. Gay nobility who was down-low about it (like Renly) always were able to function fine. This "edgy" attempt at contemporary Indiana pizzeria social commentary nonsense is ruining the logic of GRRM's own universe.

-WHY DOES THE SEPTON CARE ABOUT LORAS SO MUCH. The Septon in the books is actually shrewd and capable of pragmatism, and his stance on Margy makes sense because her infidelity could affect the entire realm. Starting a crisis with the entire Reach over a gay people trial makes no sense. He gains NOTHING here. Everybody in this show is so STUPID.

-OH WOW IS THE SEPTION ACTUALLY BEING SMART AND GOING TO MAKE A MOVE ON MARGY FOR ADULTERLY....No, she just testifies like a nitwit. There goes any attempt at not making this plot a clusterfudge

-Oh look, a gay character. I bet in their infinite wisdom D&D will just endlessly prattle on about how he's gay. We need a bechdel test with gay characters for this show except replace men with being gay.

-So Olyvar knowing about Loras' birthmark is supposed to be the damning evidence....Wow I bet D&D thought they were being oh-so-clever there. Except they establish that Olyvar squired for Loras, which means he helped dress and bathe him, which meant he could have seen that on a regular basis. Not to mention even if he wasn't a squire, it'd still be weak as fuck evidence. In this era especially nudity != sex, this isn't the freakin Victorian era. Goddamnit D&D, why are you so dumb.

-THEY ARREST MARGY FOR PERJURY. OH MY GOD. NOT AN ACTUAL ISSUE LIKE THE FUTURE OF THE FREAKIN LINE OF SUCCESSION OF WESTEROS, BUT FOR PERJURY. This show, holy crap, it's so freaking stupid. D&D are failures at this.

-Oooooh it's the Ramsay girlfriend-Sansa catfight storyline. Lets waste 15 minutes on this nonsense instead of any meaningful books plot! BRAVO D&D. YOUR CHANGES ARE SO AMAZING.

-Miranda openly states there's no more point in Sansa hiding anymore. Why was there any point in the show at all? She went right from the Vale to Winterfell openly flaunting who she was in a dominatrix outfit. It's clear D&D are just making this up as they go along season-by-season.

-Also wtf happened to Sophie Turner. She was fine back when the series was good (seasons 1&2) but now has the same monotone blank expression for every scene.

-And why is Sansa so mean to Theon? This just makes her annoying and spiteful. On top of that it prevents the best part of Theon's ADWD story: his tragic bonding with Jeyne and the comfort these two tortured souls find together. But nope, we get this banal nonsense instead.

-The lame snowstorm. Gone is the massive snowstorm of ADWD, instead it's just a flurry. Winter is coming and it's not a big deal at all, it turns out.

-No other Houses or notable people at this wedding. So much for the entire point of having it at Winterfell was having witnesses at it to make it legitimate. D&D have proven again and again they have no idea how this universe's own internal rules work.

-Ramsay calls himself the heir to Winterfell before the wedding is ratified even though he isn't the fucking heir to Winterfell at that point. Can't D&D just try a little not to have everything be stupid?

-Ramsay tells Sansa not to lie to her after asking if Tyrion and her banged. Gets all crazy with Sansa despite Roose confirming it in the first place. SHE WASN'T LYING. First D&D go out of their way to whitewash Ramsay, now they have him flip his shit over shit not even book Ramsay would be stupid enough to do.

-Completely downgraded/whiteashed/toned down the Ramsay-wife sex scene. In the books Theon actually has to eat Jeyne out in front of Ramsay and it's implied his dogs were involved as well. You know legit disturbing stuff. Not a lord having forceful sex with his crying newly wed young wife, something that happens all the goddamn time in Westeros. Yes, the show scene is bad for OUR MODERN STANDARDS, but not for the standards of the universe. D&D make this mistake all the time. And why is Theon so disturbed by this anyway? He's long past caring about this sort of thing. He takes his sex with a far younger girl and possible forced bestiality far better than show theon does juts watching this in the books. I bet D&D think this is so LE CONTROVERSIAL when it's so goddamned conventional.

That's all for this week folks! I'll be back next week to remind you that the show has been shit since season 2 and the books are better!

Some things you were ok on, but way too much nitpicking going on.

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

Bolton:

"Hey Cersie, LF put this all together. Ask Sansa, he allowed her to be raped by my son."

Plan ruined.

Does Cersei seem the type to ask nicely of Bolton what's going on? She's no Tywin Lannister...

[Varys Imilitude]

Arya's scenes have sucked since season two.

When do I get to be a super assassin? I'm bored. I'm going to tap my fingers, and then whine.

[Jonathan N]

I think the point was they snuck off so they could make out which made it possible for them to be attacked with no one around.

Thanks moviefan, I may have missed that. Still, how did Jaime and Bronn stumbled into them?

[Jonathan N]

DP

[Jonathan N]

double post

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

I find it absolutely outrageous that the moderators are prohibiting the positive/negative critique threads. Week after week, these threads - especially the latter - are the most active. So what if they veer off-topic at times? This is a web forum to discuss a fantasy world, not a formal debating society. Any lively discussion is going to be free-ranging. I found "Rant and Rave Without Repercussion" to be extremely cathartic. After this atrocity of an episode, the fact that I don't have a place to commiserate with fellow "book snobs" is just adding insult to injury. I'm sure the "positive nitpickers," who find book snobs insufferable, agree. Warn me or ban me or whatever - I don't care. The moderators are being way too heavy-handed and taking themselves way too seriously. Good job suppressing the most popular part of your forum.

[The Wolves]

We know the winter is going to be a problem, but do the characters at this point in the story? Obviously Stannis doesn't, as he's even further north than Winterfell and thinks he can survive a march, so I think its likely that many characters are underestimating what's coming.

They all know what it is like in the North the North and it's winters are legendary, seriously Stannis only makes it in the North because of the Northernmen.

[Natalia Borgia]

"The Tarley forces however are arguably the strongest in battle (even before the War of the 5 Kings) so I'm wondering if that will come into play in the aftermath next season especially given their position w/ the Tyrells. "

Oh yeah- well we have to have a scene in which Randall T. disses Sam the Slayer and we see how badass he is in comparison to his smart son. I know that Tarly will be the threat to KL if he gathers all the forces of the reach to defend Marg and Loras. He is a bannerman to their father and is oath bound to help them.

[Fredwin]

Without rewatching, was it me, or was the entire episode not in the books? Am I right? None of the things that happened, and none of the dialogue was in the books?

I guess the Arya stuff was close. But, virtually all of the dialogue, and events were not written by GRRM. What a coincidence that it sucked.

The show is in hyper-nosedive mode.

Yes. I'm really kind of worried that we'll see a budget cut next season or some kind of kickback from this. Judging the show on it's on merits the Dorne stuff this week is just unforgivable.

It was so bad that the horror of Sansa's rape hasn't even set in yet because I'm still trying to piece together the mess of Dorne in my mind. This scene was actually worse than (Yara's) botched rescue attempt of Theon, and here I was thinking they couldn't top that one.

It's like they deconstructed this entire fantasy world that was painstakingly built from the ground up(both on and off screen) so they could bring us to cartoon-land instead. Ellaria and the Sandsnakes aren't even worthy of being B-movie bad girls, they honestly bring me back to the type of cliched villains that used to appear in Saturday morning cartoons. I'm sorry, I take that back... even Saturday morning cartoon villains have more motive and raison d'etre. Surely something with more substance than "The Lannister's killed my dad and now we will meet secretly and plot about... things, and WAR!" and not to mention "Quick! To our underground bunker! Something is amiss in the gardens!". So much for three-dimensional characters.

Other than that, the fight scene speaks for itself. It's a joke and it only serves to make all involved look bad. Three SAND-SNAKES vs. Bronn and a crippled Jaime over that long of a fight and only one blow is landed? I just keep hearing the Benny Hill music on repeat. Why have Bronn die to a festering poison when he could have went out against Areo Hotah and had an awesome scene? Here's hoping this never happens again.