Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 He's Henry Tudor Jon is Henry Tudor. FAegon is Perkin Warbeck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In A Coat of Gold Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 ^Agreed, he knows. In the chapter when they are sailing across the narrow sea he is thinking about how he doesn't trust Varys and how Aegons eyes are the wrong color and it really comes off to me as his sub conscious being like "you know a lot of people are about to die for this phony..." The eye color thing is ridiculous. Viserys, Dany, and Rhaegar have the same parents, but different colored eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 It's really not that complicated. Mummers like George R. R. Martin use Aegons in their follies, to give their heroes something to fight. Exactly. He is something prepared for Dany to fight when she comes to Westeros. That is why it was easy to cut him from the show because there are other alternatives to give Dany something to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 To give Dany a good fight. Otherwise she'd arrive at Westeros, defeat the Others and take the Iron Throne without breaking a sweat. It would be too easy and too boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I can buy that he knows or suspects. I think Jon and AeGriff will both have pretty sad stories and endings, including perhaps being confronted by and struggling with the truth of the matter.Aegon's fate...On his deathbed, Ser Aegor Rivers had famously commanded his men to boil the flesh from his skull, dip it in gold, and carry it before them when they crossed the sea to retake Westeros. His successors had followed his example.The Lost Lord, Dance 24North of Yi Ti, the windswept plains and rolling hills that stretch from the Golden Empire's frontiers to the desolate shores of the shivering sea are dominated by a race of mounted warriors called the Jogos Nhai. Like the Dothraki......A thousand rival clans joined together and raised up a jhattar [the jhat of jhats and war leader of the whole people], a woman in man's mail named Zhea the barren......Zhea isolated each of Lo Bu's thirteen armies ... and destroyed them each in turn......Amongst the slain was Lo Bu himself... When his severed head was presented to Zhea, she commanded that the flesh be stripped from the bone, so that his skull might be dipped in gold and made into her drinking cup. From that time to this, every jhattar of the Jogos Nhai has drunk fermented zorse milk from the gilded skull of the Boy Too Bold By Half... The Plains of the Jogos Nhai, TWOIAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 To give Dany a good fight. Otherwise she'd arrive at Westeros, defeat the Others and take the Iron Throne without breaking a sweat. It would be too easy and too boring.Not as long as Irri is along :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I'm not so sure it's as simple as giving Dany someone to fight. He doesn't have a dragon, and isn't likely to get one if Dany plans to wipe him out, unless she has some kind of fit of chivalry and says they have to be equally armed for the fight. Aegon as a Perkin Warbeck is possible but he could also actually be the prince everyone thought was dead. Either way he's not just a target for Dany. Look at the characters who will converge around Aegon. We've already had Tyrion in the mix. Now with Aegon in Westeros Arianne and all our other Dornish friends are involved. The Stormlands are being taken so he can get involved with anyone there. The Tyrells and/or Tarlys were on the Targ side of the rebellion. And there's very little chance that Littlefinger will be able to resist the possibility of getting in good with a dragon prince, which means we could see Sansa effected as well. Aegon may be just a catalyst for others, but he is going to have an impact on a lot of characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I'm not so sure it's as simple as giving Dany someone to fight. He doesn't have a dragon, and isn't likely to get one if Dany plans to wipe him out, unless she has some kind of fit of chivalry and says they have to be equally armed for the fight. Aegon as a Perkin Warbeck is possible but he could also actually be the prince everyone thought was dead. Either way he's not just a target for Dany. Look at the characters who will converge around Aegon. We've already had Tyrion in the mix. Now with Aegon in Westeros Arianne and all our other Dornish friends are involved. The Stormlands are being taken so he can get involved with anyone there. The Tyrells and/or Tarlys were on the Targ side of the rebellion. And there's very little chance that Littlefinger will be able to resist the possibility of getting in good with a dragon prince, which means we could see Sansa effected as well. Aegon may be just a catalyst for others, but he is going to have an impact on a lot of characters.We also have those treasons to resolve. Maybe she'll hook up with Aegon, and then maybe Illyrio will betray her for blood, Tyrion and/or Brown Ben will betray her for gold, and Aegon will betray her for love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 In a Coat of Gold, did you read my post? I said it was Jon Cons subconscious way of telling him, not that it is proof of his identity 1 way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I can definitely imagine some seismic political developments in Westeros should Faegon briefly sit the Iron Throne and be seen as a good King, before Dany showing up to expose him as a fraud then put him to death and prove to be just as unsuitable a ruler in Westeros as she was Mereen. ...and when she starts burning people, Barristan would go Jaime for full symmetry :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 The point of Aegon is to unite the Seven Kingdoms against Daenerys. If you check the original outline George was apparently setting up Dany and Evil King Jaime (who had murdered everybody between himself and the Iron Throne in an evil, Littlefinger-like fashion, including Sansa's child by Joffrey) to fight for the control of Westeros once she invaded Westeros with her Dothraki and dragon (only one dragon back then). Instead, George has taken a different approach - Jaime is no power-hungry plotter, and the anti-Targaryen forces in Westeros are failing. Instead of a powerful and charismatic king who could unite the Realm against a foreign invader we have the boy king Tommen and the uncharismatic pretender Stannis Baratheon at the fringes of the civilized world. Daenerys Targaryen is still thousands of leagues away from Westeros but the continent is ripe for Targaryen restoration - enter Prince Aegon. He'll take the Iron Throne and unify pretty much all the southern kingdoms under his rule, perhaps even the West (by marrying Myrcella or by striking a deal with a different branch of the Lannister family) and the Vale. This will then provide the setting for the Second Dance of the Dragons which was supposed to be covered in the original second novel of 'the trilogy' (but then not as a civil war between two Targaryen pretenders but as Daenerys' conquest of Westeros in a war against King Jaime). Considering the fact that most/all Targaryen loyalists in Westeros will declare for Aegon VI Targaryen rather than wait for Mad Daenerys it is very likely that Daenerys will have to conquer Westeros by force with her Essosi forces. Whether Aegon will survive and reach a peaceful understanding with Daenerys remains to be seen (that will depend on the question how this war actually begins and who is going to be the party to escalate things). There is little doubt that she'll end up on top, though, as she seems to be destined to play a role in the coming War for the Dawn - which may already begin during the Second Dance or only thereafter. Most of TWoW will obviously deal with the aftermath of the situation at the Wall as well as Stannis' campaign and the Boltons. The Others are still gathering their forces (i.e. Hardhome). Aegon isn't a character that has been written into the story to confuse people or to be unimportant. He has been introduced to become a major obstacle/adversary for Daenerys' ascension - which is why he and Stannis both featured in the visions of the House of the Undying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 The point of Aegon is to unite the Seven Kingdoms against Daenerys. If you check the original outline George was apparently setting up Dany and Evil King Jaime (who had murdered everybody between himself and the Iron Throne in an evil, Littlefinger-like fashion, including Sansa's child by Joffrey) to fight for the control of Westeros once she invaded Westeros with her Dothraki and dragon (only one dragon back then). Instead, George has taken a different approach - Jaime is no power-hungry plotter, and the anti-Targaryen forces in Westeros are failing. Instead of a powerful and charismatic king who could unite the Realm against a foreign invader we have the boy king Tommen and the uncharismatic pretender Stannis Baratheon at the fringes of the civilized world. Daenerys Targaryen is still thousands of leagues away from Westeros but the continent is ripe for Targaryen restoration - enter Prince Aegon. He'll take the Iron Throne and unify pretty much all the southern kingdoms under his rule, perhaps even the West (by marrying Myrcella or by striking a deal with a different branch of the Lannister family) and the Vale. This will then provide the setting for the Second Dance of the Dragons which was supposed to be covered in the original second novel of 'the trilogy' (but then not as a civil war between two Targaryen pretenders but as Daenerys' conquest of Westeros in a war against King Jaime). Considering the fact that most/all Targaryen loyalists in Westeros will declare for Aegon VI Targaryen rather than wait for Mad Daenerys it is very likely that Daenerys will have to conquer Westeros by force with her Essosi forces. Whether Aegon will survive and reach a peaceful understanding with Daenerys remains to be seen (that will depend on the question how this war actually begins and who is going to be the party to escalate things). There is little doubt that she'll end up on top, though, as she seems to be destined to play a role in the coming War for the Dawn - which may already begin during the Second Dance or only thereafter. Most of TWoW will obviously deal with the aftermath of the situation at the Wall as well as Stannis' campaign and the Boltons. The Others are still gathering their forces (i.e. Hardhome). Aegon isn't a character that has been written into the story to confuse people or to be unimportant. He has been introduced to become a major obstacle/adversary for Daenerys' ascension - which is why he and Stannis both featured in the visions of the House of the Undying.How do you know King Stannis didna fill King Jaime's role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 More on Jon Conn not believing Aegon is real: "In Jon Connington’s experience, men would fight for things they felt were theirs, even things they’d gained by theft." - ADwD p. 804This line always read to me that Jon Conn was fighting for Aegon (and thereby Rhaegar's) legacy, that he Jon Conn took by theft, because he doesn't believe Aegon is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gash is back Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 the original outline George was apparently setting up link please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Moat Cailin Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Well, we need three dragon riders... Who better to join Dany and Tyrion than our beloved Aegon ?You mean Dany and Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 There are many themes touching on identity issues: Dany and remembering who she is, Jon and bastardy/love of Ned, Tyrion and his father/family issue. We are inside the head (POV characters) for all of them. This gives GRRM a storyline, without an internal POV, which he can play with that makes both readers and characters in the story really ask the question 'who deserves to rule?' Would it be alright for a fake to become king? Also he is a good foil/opponent for Dany and/or others to interact with via both war and character motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 We also have those treasons to resolve. Maybe she'll hook up with Aegon, and then maybe Illyrio will betray her for blood, Tyrion and/or Brown Ben will betray her for gold, and Aegon will betray her for love? One of my pet crackpots is that Daario is the Blackfyre in the story and he will be the betrayal for blood, stealing a dragon and claiming the throne for himself. Dany throws Aegon a dragon, they team up to defeat the last pretender. Daario kills Aegon. Dany kills Daario (or someone else does). Dany is all alone, no more relatives. But wait...up north, her brother has another child! It's one possibility anyway. Tyrion doesn't have to betray her for gold. He's going to get Casterly Rock in exchange for taking it for her via the sewers. Deftly and subtly foreshadowed by our beloved author. He may betray her for love though. Actually I think Tyrion isn't going to betray her at all, because he does have a decent streak, and so many people expect it to happen that I think it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 LM, could be. But Stannis is no position to gain the Iron Throne in the near future. Aegon is. And Stannis is neither well-liked nor charismatic. He can't rally the Faith to his cause. Aegon can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 More on Jon Conn not believing Aegon is real: "In Jon Connington’s experience, men would fight for things they felt were theirs, even things they’d gained by theft." - ADwD p. 804This line always read to me that Jon Conn was fighting for Aegon (and thereby Rhaegar's) legacy, that he Jon Conn took by theft, because he doesn't believe Aegon is real. I'm not sure how theft relates to Aegon or his identity. Could you explain further what you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 There are many themes touching on identity issues: Dany and remembering who she is, Jon and bastardy/love of Ned, Tyrion and his father/family issue. We are inside the head (POV characters) for all of them. This gives GRRM a storyline, without an internal POV, which he can play with that makes both readers and characters in the story really ask the question 'who deserves to rule?' Would it be alright for a fake to become king? Also he is a good foil/opponent for Dany and/or others to interact with via both war and character motivation. What if Aegon saves the realm? Would he then deserve to be king regardless of birth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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