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Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP507 Discussion

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Ummm why are people asking if LF's gift is Sweetrobin or Gendry? I thought it was obviously Lancel.

But then how is Lancel his gift to Olenna? He didn't do anything. Lancel already confessed WAY before about him and Cersei to the High Sparrow. Unless it was LF that urged Lancel to join the FM I doubt Lancel is his gift.

I think the show made it seem like it, but maybe he actually has a different gift.

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Seems like there are a lot of theories about Sansa still being able to become the "strong one". I hesitate to write further. Wasn't Jeyne Poole's torture used as a device to not only redeem Theon, but to advance Bran's narrative in becoming the next...."Overlord Greenseer" (sorry couldn't think of another way to title it). Talking to Theon, through Winterfell's heart tree was Bran's what, 3rd attempt in his becoming? Hopefully I am at least amusing to non-book readers! I keep trying to pretend that the author hasn't disclosed the end to the show writes I guess.


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What else has she got. this is the most desperate of a situation she has had since the show began. King's Landing was a cake walk compared to this. It also seems that none of her experiences or lessons have prepared her for dealing with Ramsay Bolton.

I disagree. This is worse but Joffrey's torments were not minor. Neither were Cerise's for that matter. Although Cerise's interactions with Sansa are really complicated in those episodes. There are times where she seems to show a glimmer of sympathy toward her, and others where she just seems really cruel. I'm thinking of the talk they had after her "flowering" and the dinner scene where Cersei flashed Sansa an evil look for not acknowledging some question from princess Myrcella.

The scene at court where Trant beats her while Joff is taunting her with a crossbow is still troubling to me if I'm honest. Seeing her fathers head on a spike is pretty brutal as well.

I think prior to KL, she was not only younger but also much more sheltered from the brutal realities of that world.

Side comment: There seems to be a population of book readers that have a lot of disdain for Sansa in the books and I think they tend to forget just how young she is. I read a lot of those comments and it seems to me that might make sense if we are talking about an adult but this is a barely pubescent child we're talking about.

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I do not want Sansa to have Ramsey's child. That would not be cool. She needs to get out of there ASAP. I thought she'd kill the Boltons this season, but now I think they will hang around for another season. Darn darn darny darn darn. Poor old lady. That was just wrong. Have I mentioned I can't wait for the Bolton's to get it?



I'm thankful Bronn got the antidote. I don't know what else is going on in Dorne, but I really hope Bronn gets a pice of that. Sounds like Jaime's plan has blown up, but Doran is trying to prevent a war so he won't be too hard on Jaime or Bronn. The Sand Snakes might spend quite awhile locked up though. Tyrene (sp?) just became my favorite new character though. :)



I was very happy to see Jorah make it back to Dany. I was screaming at the screen, "say, I brought you a gift!" and then he said it. :) Tyrion was perfect. I'm excited to see where this goes. Jorah needs to do a better job explaining himself though. Tyrion should help.



I was totally ready for Cersi to get hers. Very well done. Who is the gift Littefinger has for the Tyrells? Olyvar? In what way? To murder, or will he reverse his testimony?



Very happy with this episode. Can't wait for next week.


Edited by The Ghost of Rhaegar

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Wasn't surprised by the Tyrion/Dany meeting. When they killed off Barristan Selmy I thought they were clearing the way for Tyrion to call the shots while Dany is away and Jorah will be his muscle. Will be interesting to see where Daario fits in now that he won't be a Yunkai hostage. I'm kind of hoping he is the one to attack Drogon and get killed.


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I'm guessing Sweetrobin. LF got this sh*teatting grin on his face when QOT said our fates are tied. Otherwise, he could claim to have info on where to find Varys/Tyrion. Cersei would trade the QOT anything for that.

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I am sorry, but Ramsey is so freaking messed up I would be afraid of any of his babies. 100X worse than Craster.

yeah i would too.

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That scene made me 'think' aswell.

He mentions Jon Snow during their back and forth about bastards. She implies he can't inherit if Walda's child is a boy (that was naughty of her), the Ramsey was legitimize by a bastard himself. Ramsey counters with the brute fact that the bastard of Winterfell is now LC demonstrating bastards can rise very high. I though that was clear.

Ummm why are people asking if LF's gift is Sweetrobin or Gendry? I thought it was obviously Lancel.

Lancel is not a boy. He's bigger than I am for crissakes.

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This. LF's gift is Olyvar recanting, saying Cersei paid him, threatened him, etc. Neatly paves the way for Loras and Margaery's release while keeping Cersei on track for the WOS and maintaining the HS's moral standards.


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Another pretty solid episode. And again we have a whole bunch of posts from folk who haven't yet sussed that the show isn't the books.



The gift is love if folk haven't worked it out. Gilly and Sam, Tommen and Margery, Myrcella and Trystin, Jorah and Danny, Not putting the house of black and white in the episode seems to be deliberate counterpoint.



I thought the candle episode would end badly. Theon needs to find his inner strength first. But will Sansa trust him a second time? Ramsay telling Sansa about Jon makes perfect sense, he is toying with her.



The point of the Dorne plot seems pretty obvious to me: The sand snakes were playing with Bronn. She had used the poison in the fight but they both lost and ended up in prison so there is nothing to be gained from letting him die. But that doesn't mean she can't toy with him first. Given that the sand snakes have done nothing in the books, this is an improvement on them.



This is also about establishing Myrcella as a rival to Tommen. They have given her an opportunity to tell Jamie she has switched sides.



The KL part was done pretty well. I think it clear that the queen of thorns was given Lancel by LF. She then let the High Sparrow know that if she doesn't get what she wants, she is going to expose him as a hypocrite as he already knows about Cersei's adultery. That coupled with the threat to starve KL should be enough to make him bend.



But most likely, Cersei was his target from the start.



What the Tyrell's probably haven't figured out is that the High Septon is going to go after Cersei for the incest. And that threatens to bring Tommen down as well and Margery with him.


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I wonder if Gilly didn't already decide to have sex with Sam back when the two of them were sitting with Maester Aemon. Before the attempted rape, Sam had just eulogized and torched his father figure. Lot of people react to funerals by becoming sensual and life focused as Mel would say. Gilly may have been offering comfort the only way she could think of. The attempted rape was just some more action to get their adrenaline up. That also gets people sexy feeling when it starts wearing off.



I'm just saying that I think the Gilly and Sam scene was very naturally played out.



She could have even done it in a totally calculating way to bind Sam to her more securely. She's definitely empowered. Don't try to make her a passive victim of Sam's lusts.


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This. LF's gift is Olyvar recanting, saying Cersei paid him, threatened him, etc. Neatly paves the way for Loras and Margaery's release while keeping Cersei on track for the WOS and maintaining the HS's moral standards.

I can see this as a show-devised outcome. Only, I'm kind of thinking that recanting is only the tip of the iceberg with Lady Olenna. I think poor Olyvar would be subjected to the Queen of Thorns' thorns.

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I love tyrion. he's a cool character. I am not sure how dany and him are going to work together.

First order is he's got to make sure she doesn't kill him, and then get her to trust him. That might happen more quickly than it seems though. He's great at thinking on his feet in these scenarios (surrounded by enemies who want to kill/kidnap him) and a few conversations with her may be enough to convince her he's worth keeping around and alive.

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I suspect the attempted rape had more to do with reminding the audience that the Night's Watch is largely populated by reprehensible men than providing a mechanism for Sam and Gilly to get into bed together, though I'm not a fan of the story decisions there. It seems to me that the High Sparrow's line to Cersei about the few and the many also hinted at future events at the Wall. Jon/Sam's circle of friends is shrinking, as Ser Alliser pointed out.

I think the point was that Jon has to get Gilly away from the watch and with Aemon dead he needs a new Maester.

Sam has to be absent for FTW to happen.

I always thought the switched babies thing a bit farfetched, even if it might well be a clue about Jon's parentage.

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I may have to jump on the bandwagon for Bronn becoming DarkBronn or BronnStar. Early on when cercei had Roberts bastards killed and Tyrion was really shocked, he asked Bronn if he could kill a child without question, Bronn answered no. He would ask how much.

Not sure what is going to happen with Stannis, but I do think he will send Lady Mel back to the wall and that is what will cause Celyse's meltdown.

Looked at next weeks cast and they have someone cast as the Night King, leader of the white walkers.

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Another pretty solid episode. And again we have a whole bunch of posts from folk who haven't yet sussed that the show isn't the books.

The gift is love if folk haven't worked it out. Gilly and Sam, Tommen and Margery, Myrcella and Trystin, Jorah and Danny, Not putting the house of black and white in the episode seems to be deliberate counterpoint.

I thought the candle episode would end badly. Theon needs to find his inner strength first. But will Sansa trust him a second time? Ramsay telling Sansa about Jon makes perfect sense, he is toying with her.

The point of the Dorne plot seems pretty obvious to me: The sand snakes were playing with Bronn. She had used the poison in the fight but they both lost and ended up in prison so there is nothing to be gained from letting him die. But that doesn't mean she can't toy with him first. Given that the sand snakes have done nothing in the books, this is an improvement on them.

This is also about establishing Myrcella as a rival to Tommen. They have given her an opportunity to tell Jamie she has switched sides.

The KL part was done pretty well. I think it clear that the queen of thorns was given Lancel by LF. She then let the High Sparrow know that if she doesn't get what she wants, she is going to expose him as a hypocrite as he already knows about Cersei's adultery. That coupled with the threat to starve KL should be enough to make him bend.

But most likely, Cersei was his target from the start.

What the Tyrell's probably haven't figured out is that the High Septon is going to go after Cersei for the incest. And that threatens to bring Tommen down as well and Margery with him.

And I'd agree with this as well. My first thought was Lancel, but of course a lot of people feel he's spilled to the HS already. I'd argue even if he has, his punishment for being complicit in the murder of the King has got to be worth more punishment than Marg or Loras. That IS the leverage that Lady Olenna would need.

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IMO, it made more sense for Ramsay to lock up Jeyne Poole in the books than Sansa in the show: he was worried that the northern lords would recognize her as not being Arya. Even if they already knew deep down that she was not Arya, by keeping her in the room there is less of a chance of it being talked about.

Ramsey is a force of nature, taking pleasure primarily with dominating people through terror. If he was smart, he'd be kissing her feet, not keeping her locked in a room. Power politics is not his strong suit.

The way they set it up in the show, it will be interesting to see how Roose reacts to the treatment of Sansa. In the books, he's somewhat indifferent, but in the books it's the northern lords that bend to him. In the show, he's genuinely worried about them uniting against him. Rumors of Ramsey brutalizing the last daughter of Eddard Stark could see the marriage of political convenience backfire spectacularly.

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So like I said an actual Character development from a Sand Snake.

Also proves that at least one of them can actually act.

Are you referring to the one that rolled her eyes? Cuz that was the only decent acting there. Amazing tits though.

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