Why Shireen has to burn [Book Spoilers]

[TheCasualObserver]

Regrettably that is true but many a reader still fail to realize that without Melisandre, not only would Stannis be dead, so would Davos Seaworth, Jon Snow and most of the Night's Watch.

In any case, anyway you look at it, on one hand, you have Renly Baratheon, Cortnay Penrose and Alster Florent, on the other you have, conservatively, twenty-thousand people.

There is not any definite answer for how the war would have gone for Stannis had he not had Melisandre. In the books for example he might well have had a plan to fight a defensive battle at Storm's End - which Renly was planning to blindly charge Ser Loras into. All Stannis would need to do was capture Ser Loras or Renly.

But in reality, Stannis would never have attacked Storm's end without Melisandre there to tell him of Renly's death. He likely would have gone straight for KL with his five thousand, potentially before Cersei increases the city watch and certainly before Tyrion completes his chain, which probably leads to his victory. How secure would Renly's coalition be if Stannis is anointed King and sitting on the Iron Throne? Especially if Stannis' offer from their OTL timeline still stands.

Back on topic, do we have any real evidence that burning a man can accomplish anything? Is clearing away a bit of snow worth a young girl's life?

I think Shireen being burned might be a show-ender for me. Not in complaint about straying too far from the books, and not because I think the show has decreased in quality (although it has) - but because I simply cannot take this shit anymore. Too much misery.

[TheReal_Rebel]

This

. Nice work!

I like it! Hope you are right.

Shireen is Stannis's only heir.

Even if Mel convinces Stannis burning Shireen is the only way to save the World (hubris itself), Davos would find a way to get Shireen away.

Even if Shireen, Davos and Mel go back to the Wall, Davos will escape with Shireen.

Then, hopefully, go in search of Rickon.

If they do burn Shireen it would be as big a shock as the Sansa scene and turn off a lot of people.

In the books Shireen is not in any danger of being burnt by Mel and Stannis tells Ser Mathis in Theon 1 WoW to seat her on IT if he dies in Battle of Ice.

[Eucratides_Megas]

Stannis loves his daughter, and in some ways has made peace with his course to victory or defeat. He isn't in a win at all cost mindset. I think what we've seen happening very subtly and under the radar is his quiet conviction to earn the throne, rather than win it, and if that means risking all---what other choices does a truly just man have?

Also take into account that his daughter has been the one true, stable and agenda-less source of love he's had since season 3, apart form Davos to a lesser extent. She isn't manipulative, she doesn't seem to hold back things like Mel does. And Stannis, like all men with real problems showing affection, secretly does want to be loved.

What I'm wondering about is Selyse's overall fate. Does her complicity in attempting to sacrifice Shireen doom her to be executed? Does this mean Stannis is both about to make a lot widows and now an eligible bachelor? We know show Stannis has a thing for girls with auburn hair...

[Faint]

Back on topic, do we have any real evidence that burning a man can accomplish anything?

We have ample evidence that it can create enough wind to cause an inordinate reduction in travel time.

[Lord Damian]

It may be off chart. Does anyone else wish that they had cast Patchface as Shireen's sidekick? His prophecies were creepy and accurate.

[SeanF]

I'd argue she doesn't come across as sympathetic until you actually read her thoughts in her POV. I was more fascinated by her until I read her chapter then I realised she was sincere in her beliefs (while still doing super shitty things in the name of her beliefs), on top of having a pretty tough backstory which the show has touched on.

The show is cutting out one very decent thing she does alright - keeping Devan behind at the Wall to spare Davos any more suffering - but otherwise I don't feel she's coming across as worse, and is VERY single minded in her mission.

During the Q&A at Comic Con last year D&D rebuffed the idea that she was evil as well.

And sort of related ;) (x)

Certainly, she doesn't seem at all sympathetic in Books 2 or 3, at least when one first reads them.

But, in the books, she tried to talk Cressen out of his attempt to kill her. In the Show, she told him he smells of piss. In the books, she doesn't burn people for failing to convert (Stannis' army is full of worshippers of other gods). She visited Davos in his cell, and readily forgave him, and never jeered at him over the death of his son. And she saved Mance Rayder.

[SeanF]

We have ample evidence that it can create enough wind to cause an inordinate reduction in travel time.

Not to mention hatching the dragons.

[The_Watcher_On_The_Walls]

That's true but then again Davos is predicted to serve R'hllor one more time and now he's off hunting Rickon who also has king's blood...

It seems a bit of a cop out that all you have to do is call yourself a king (Mance, Robb etc) and all of a sudden there's power not only in your blood, but also your relatives.

As to little Rickon, we can still hope a certain Shaggy dog might have something to say about that.

[Lord Godric]

It seems a bit of a cop out that all you have to do is call yourself a king (Mance, Robb etc) and all of a sudden there's power not only in your blood, but also your relatives.

As to little Rickon, we can still hope a certain Shaggy dog might have something to say about that.

Well to be fair, what exactly makes Stannis a king, or even Robert? Why the magic behind king's blood works is impossible to figure out, so if someone is a king and is actually leading people, that seems to be good enough.

[The_Watcher_On_The_Walls]

Well to be fair, what exactly makes Stannis a king, or even Robert? Why the magic behind king's blood works is impossible to figure out, so if someone is a king and is actually leading people, that seems to be good enough.

I suppose. If Stannis was King enough to spoof a shadow assassin surely Rickon would burn something good. Although, his brother is no longer KOTN so I dunno how that works out.

Given Mel's not as good as she makes out, it could even be that it's not the Kings blood that's important, rather the Stark or Baratheon blood as it were. We know the Starks are close to the old Gods, evidenced by Qhorin Halfhand when he requested Jon to scout with him, saying something about the Starks being connected to the Old Gods beyond the wall.

It wouldn't be the first time Mel has seen things incorrectly. Unbeknown to Mel, she might have just taken a different path to the same place when she queefed out stannis' shadow.

[Mithras]

I think Stannis might send Mel/Selyse to the Wall and Davos/Shireen to Braavos before the battle. Davos/Shireen come across Sam/Gilly going to Oldtown. Davos learns that a Stark boy is alive and decides to go after him, which leads him to the Umbers and Rickon.

Having being denied of Shireen, Mel once again turns to Jon. But this time, not for his seed but for his blood.

[Westerosi Coast Gangster]

Unfortunately, the burning of Shireen is the event that is going to have everyone going crazy over. More so than for the watch. You don't survive burnings.

[Mithras]

Unfortunately, the burning of Shireen is the event that is going to have everyone going crazy over. More so than for the watch. You don't survive burnings.

Dany disagrees :pimp:

[Drogonthedread]

sadly shireen is not Dany

[titanx5]

I just dont see Shireen getting sacrificed, we have already had a rape scene of a main character and burning a little girl would create a lot of controversy and GoT in general would lose a lot of viewers. Yes, you may want to create a bit of shock here and there but burning a little girl steps over that mark. Plus D&D would have successfully made Stannis the MOST HATED GoT character whose than Ramsay, Joffrey, LF, Roose and Cersei. If Shireen gets sacrificed or killed it wont be by Stannis's orders, as 1st cant see Stannis looking at his daughter and killing her, and 2nd Davos would prevent it from happening.

[Mithras]

sadly shireen is not Dany

Definitely. She is much better than Dany.

[Mithras]

The title of Episode 10 is Mother's Mercy.

Selyse on the ground anyone?

[SeanF]

I just dont see Shireen getting sacrificed, we have already had a rape scene of a main character and burning a little girl would create a lot of controversy and GoT in general would lose a lot of viewers. Yes, you may want to create a bit of shock here and there but burning a little girl steps over that mark. Plus D&D would have successfully made Stannis the MOST HATED GoT character whose than Ramsay, Joffrey, LF, Roose and Cersei. If Shireen gets sacrificed or killed it wont be by Stannis's orders, as 1st cant see Stannis looking at his daughter and killing her, and 2nd Davos would prevent it from happening.

Once Sansa's been raped, they have to up the ante.

[ShadowKitteh]

Jesse Creezie, if they burned a little girl to death on screen that would really be too much...

Why? Because we know her, unlike the two farm boys Theon already burned?

It would be the hardest thing the show has ever done, and I think the reaction would be historical, which is why it might just happen.

I for one hope it goes a far different way, since right now it seems obvious. (And I think it makes for a better story for her to not die.

Either way, I think Shireen is too important (and liked), that she needs to be handled in the show the same way she is in the books.

[Lord Damian]

What if they try to burn Shireen and like Dany for some reason, will not burn?