DMC Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 14 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said: Clearly the dragons are loyal to Dany and each other -- but that has been true the entire series. Well, I think them breaking out of prison and joining Dany precisely when she's flying by - and seems to expect them to - clearly demonstrates a connection that has not been seen thus far in the series. Hell, pretty sure the last time we saw her with them they scared her off for locking them up in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Imo, Rhaegal and Viserion breaking out at the exact point they did is not indicitive of a bond with Dany akin to the bond between Dany and Drogon. They only reason it happened this way was because the plot demanded it did, nothing more. I still expect there to be other dragon riders apart from Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 6 minutes ago, Les Diables Rouges said: Imo, Rhaegal and Viserion breaking out at the exact point they did is not indicitive of a bond with Dany akin to the bond between Dany and Drogon. They only reason it happened this way was because the plot demanded it did, nothing more. I still expect there to be other dragon riders apart from Dany. They followed her, responded to her commands. Show is easy and what you see is what we got. That sounds like a control and besides we don't need other riders. Jon not gonna be rider and it's very clear. He's a warrior who leads on battlefield, Tyrion is advisor and Bran is 3ER. They got their own purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jô Maltese Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Just one remark regarding the old debate of nature vs nurture when analysing R+L=J or A+J=T. Just look at Sansa at the end of the episode: more Petyr, Tywin and Cersei's than Ned and Cat's daughter, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Les Diables Rouges said: They only reason it happened this way was because the plot demanded it did, nothing more. That could definitely be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 9 hours ago, dmc515 said: Well, I think them breaking out of prison and joining Dany precisely when she's flying by - and seems to expect them to - clearly demonstrates a connection that has not been seen thus far in the series. Hell, pretty sure the last time we saw her with them they scared her off for locking them up in the first place. You are expecting a level of precision and logical consistency way beyond anything that this show has ever demonstrated. I think that LDR basically has it right that the show just wanted the scene to be more dramatic and visually interesting -- so the "break-out" happened as it did. Dany is not going to ride them and while they generally will follow her orders because they are loyal to her, this behavior is not indicative necessarily of a mental bond like she has with Drogon. 57 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said: They followed her, responded to her commands. Show is easy and what you see is what we got. That sounds like a control and besides we don't need other riders. Jon not gonna be rider and it's very clear. He's a warrior who leads on battlefield, Tyrion is advisor and Bran is 3ER. They got their own purposes. What is better than a warrior? A warrior with a dragon. Aegon I is known as a great warrior -- and he did it on a dragon. And is Tyrion really just going to sit back during the battle -- he did not at Blackwater -- but for the big battle, he is going to need more than a sword and shield -- he needs a dragon. The clues are clearer in the books, but I think in the battle against the WW, the three dragons will each need a rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Scribe of Naath Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 4 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said: What is better than a warrior? A warrior with a dragon. Aegon I is known as a great warrior -- and he did it on a dragon. And is Tyrion really just going to sit back during the battle -- he did not at Blackwater -- but for the big battle, he is going to need more than a sword and shield -- he needs a dragon. The clues are clearer in the books, but I think in the battle against the WW, the three dragons will each need a rider. What if one (or more) of the dragons die before the final showdown with the Others? In the books, we know that some kind of DoD v.2 is coming up. It could very well be that one dragon dies in that battle. Otherwise, it's looking way too easy for Team Dany at this point. Nobody will oppose her in Westeros when she lands with 3 dragons, they might as well have her directly fly north and get ready for the WW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Jo Maltese said: Just one remark regarding the old debate of nature vs nurture when analysing R+L=J or A+J=T. Just look at Sansa at the end of the episode: more Petyr, Tywin and Cersei's than Ned and Cat's daughter, don't you think? Sansa not acting as a Stark saved them. So that's a good thing. Jon acted like a Stark and almost got killed. 34 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said: What is better than a warrior? A warrior with a dragon. Aegon I is known as a great warrior -- and he did it on a dragon. And is Tyrion really just going to sit back during the battle -- he did not at Blackwater -- but for the big battle, he is going to need more than a sword and shield -- he needs a dragon. The clues are clearer in the books, but I think in the battle against the WW, the three dragons will each need a rider. Someone needs to lead them from the ground, general figure. Besides Kit swordfighting is glorious and D&D constantly praise him for that and people love it. Don't think they'll sacrifice that for a dragon, He's sort of a action figure. He faces the struggle as any soldier and that's what makes him great. They cut his wargining abilities his bond with his magical creature reduced. It's like on purpose for him to stay away from magic. Much like he was trampled under those bodies. Him riding a dragon would take that realness away and not to mention how silly that would look. He's a warrior, swordsman on the ground and not a dragonrider. Tyrion is most useful as tactician much like in Meereen in this episode, advisor. He doesn't have to fight. Perhaps his biggest role would be to rebuild Westeros with ruler that's left. That will be very important and tough job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 1 hour ago, UnmaskedLurker said: You are expecting a level of precision and logical consistency way beyond anything that this show has ever demonstrated. I think that LDR basically has it right that the show just wanted the scene to be more dramatic and visually interesting -- so the "break-out" happened as it did. Dany is not going to ride them and while they generally will follow her orders because they are loyal to her, this behavior is not indicative necessarily of a mental bond like she has with Drogon. Nah, I've said repeatedly nothing may come out of this with the show - that was basically my original point. Doesn't change the fact that empirically the scene did indicate a connection between Dany/Drogon and the other two that was otherwise unprecedented. Given the topic of the thread I think that's worth clarifying, even if I agree 100% Dany isn't going to ride anyone else in either medium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said: They followed her, responded to her commands. Show is easy and what you see is what we got. That sounds like a control and besides we don't need other riders. Jon not gonna be rider and it's very clear. He's a warrior who leads on battlefield, Tyrion is advisor and Bran is 3ER. They got their own purposes. Following and responding to her commands is not quite the same as the bond that exists between Dany and Drogon. Martin has clearly established that the bond between rider and dragon lasts until one of them dies and no rider has bonded with two dragons simultaneously. The show may go a different route but I doubt it. I agree that the show is easy; I'm not the one reading anything into that scene. It happened the way it did because *plot*. I remain confident that there will be other dragon riders besides Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Well, I guess we basically just got confirmation of RLJ. I suspect there will be "hold outs" who think that just because RLJ is true in the show does not mean it is true in the books -- but that is "tinfoil" thinking -- Jon's origin has to be the same in both media because it is too central to the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 19 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said: Well, I guess we basically just got confirmation of RLJ. I suspect there will be "hold outs" who think that just because RLJ is true in the show does not mean it is true in the books -- but that is "tinfoil" thinking -- Jon's origin has to be the same in both media because it is too central to the story. It was kinda underwhelming, wasn't it? Though I eagerly await people's interpretations of that whispered audio. I caught the part about Robert killing Jon if he found out, but not the first part. Did she tell him they were married? I wonder if it was in the closed captioning. Also man that King in the North thing seemed...odd. Don't see Jon ever claiming that title in the books, but who knows. Poor Sansa! It's like nobody cares that she's the rightful Stark Heir. It's not even like Jon earned this newfound respect in battle, if not for Sansa and Littlefinger he'd be dead again. Edit: also, R+L=J has to be one of the weirdest spoilers in history. Of the people I watched it with only one other was a book reader, but everyone knew. The "previously on" didn't help. One girl asked aloud "what about his sister?" Because apparently she was sure the real twist was that he was a twin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I doubt that the CC will say anything other that "whispers" but I am not sure. It really looked like she was saying "Aemon" but maybe it was just wishful thinking on my part. I got the sense that Sansa orchestrated Jon being named KitN to prevent LF from using her for his purposes in rising to the top. She smiles and then when she looks at LF he is upset so she forces a disappointed look on her face -- but she certainly looked pleased at the result. I think she can still be Lady Stark -- of Winterfell but I am pretty sure she wanted Jon to be KitN -- and made sure it would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 36 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said: I doubt that the CC will say anything other that "whispers" but I am not sure. It really looked like she was saying "Aemon" but maybe it was just wishful thinking on my part.. I heard audio, and I bet someone will at least have an interpretation of it by tomorrow. There's been at least one similar situation in recent memory, I wanna say Breaking Bad but I might be wrong. Where the fans got it based on that. The part that was like "Robert will kill him if he finds out, you know he will" was very clear to me. But then in the end if the show wants them to be married, they will have been married despite whatever was whispered. (Just as if Martin wants them to be married, they will be married despite the law I still think exists against polygamy )I guess Ned could find out from that woman in the room, and Bran from another flashback. 40 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said: I got the sense that Sansa orchestrated Jon being named KitN to prevent LF from using her for his purposes in rising to the top. She smiles and then when she looks at LF he is upset so she forces a disappointed look on her face -- but she certainly looked pleased at the result. I think she can still be Lady Stark -- of Winterfell but I am pretty sure she wanted Jon to be KitN -- and made sure it would happen. Interesting. I read that exchange of looks as set up for conflict to come in season seven. Wherein Littlefinger would continue to try to make his dreams of world domination and creepy mother-daughter transference come true. I'm not sure how Jon being King in the North precludes his half-sister from marrying the hypothetical king in the south. But yeah even before that when debating what to do with Melisandre...Like I can understand giving Jon command of the army. Alright he's led men into battle before. But I'd have been happier if Sansa had asserted her rights as Ned Stark's last (known) living trueborn kid. But it's just another example of the show not giving a fuck. A friend of mind pointed out that "now that Ramsey's gone, she's single!" and I had to remind him that no, she's still married to Tyrion. Of course if Sansa wanted to rid herself of Littlefinger, all she'd need do is tell the truth of how he sold her to the Boltons. Littlefinger's only power on the show seems to be his relationship with Robyn, and Royce already hates him. Didn't seem like the boy lord was in the room but even if he was he doesn't command there. I don't think Baelish would have gotten out of the room alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaechyll Targaryen Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I'm a supporter of AJT but we've had no progression on that front since his scene with the dragons. I certainly felt the growing bond with Dany though. Sansa looked to me like she was sort of uncertain about whether or not she wished they were saying QitN instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 the first thing Lyanna said was "His name is Jon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 Tyrion is in love with Dany. Fits nicely since they are Targaryen siblings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 34 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said: Tyrion is in love with Dany. Fits nicely since they are Targaryen siblings. I wouldn't be so sure. They had perfect opportunity to reveal him and as second dragonrider. A lot of men will fall in love with her. We didn't even got full R+L=J theory. Just that Lyanna is his mother. but it's almost sure thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 2 hours ago, RumHam said: I heard audio, and I bet someone will at least have an interpretation of it by tomorrow. There's been at least one similar situation in recent memory, I wanna say Breaking Bad but I might be wrong. Where the fans got it based on that. The part that was like "Robert will kill him if he finds out, you know he will" was very clear to me. But then in the end if the show wants them to be married, they will have been married despite whatever was whispered. (Just as if Martin wants them to be married, they will be married despite the law I still think exists against polygamy )I guess Ned could find out from that woman in the room, and Bran from another flashback. Interesting. I read that exchange of looks as set up for conflict to come in season seven. Wherein Littlefinger would continue to try to make his dreams of world domination and creepy mother-daughter transference come true. I'm not sure how Jon being King in the North precludes his half-sister from marrying the hypothetical king in the south. But yeah even before that when debating what to do with Melisandre...Like I can understand giving Jon command of the army. Alright he's led men into battle before. But I'd have been happier if Sansa had asserted her rights as Ned Stark's last (known) living trueborn kid. But it's just another example of the show not giving a fuck. A friend of mind pointed out that "now that Ramsey's gone, she's single!" and I had to remind him that no, she's still married to Tyrion. Of course if Sansa wanted to rid herself of Littlefinger, all she'd need do is tell the truth of how he sold her to the Boltons. Littlefinger's only power on the show seems to be his relationship with Robyn, and Royce already hates him. Didn't seem like the boy lord was in the room but even if he was he doesn't command there. I don't think Baelish would have gotten out of the room alive. Jon being KitN creates very interesting storyline Sansa will undermine him and LF will plant doubts in her head. Kit and Liam said it will be tense. Benioff that this relationship will be crucial and there is anger and jealousy from Sansa. Also Robb's will will make it to the books and Jon will be declared King in the North. Jon being KitN is kinda ironic since he's not Ned's son but Lyanna's. But they choose him and they'll follow him. Even if Sansa manges to be Queen in the North, Northerners will follow him. But did you noticed how Jon and Sansa mirror Robb and Cat. Their scene and the way they shout King in the North. Last time it ended badly and Benioff said that Jon is in danger. LF is aiming for him and others too. This feud with Sansa might push Jon away from being Stark, North towards his Targaryen side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabino Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Did anyone else see Sansa's face though with the whole KitN thing? Her smile quickly fades as she realizes it's Jon they want to lead, not her. Poor girl's been getting snubbed for multiple seasons now. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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