Staenerys Stargaryen Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 So from Ser Waymar's quick and painful dance it seems any powerful swing will shatter on a blade of an Other.Sam the Slayer proves the worth of dragonglass and shows the first weakness to the Others when he earned the nickname.So that's pretty much what the book has told us thus far, hopefully more to come sometime soon with winds.But the wonderful show adaptation has provided another battle scene with an Other, where one Jon Snow with his bastard Valyrian sword shocks an Other when his blade does not shatter. Jon then shows some badassery by instead shattering the Other with one quick slice. So now that the show has started to go past the books on the Westeros timeline, the script is flipped and it is interesting to ponder if the book story will follow what happens in the show.So will Valryian blades actually level the fight against the Others, or will GRRM shatter this show theory, there is also the possibility we never see an Other duel with a Valyrian sword in the books.Also please release Winds date after Season 5 finale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Charles of Rosehaven Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think that show runners did that because the y dont have time to explain viewers what dragonsteel is. George can do whatever he wants. He can even have tyrion, Hot pie or edd kill an army of others with the power of dragonpiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevasTra82 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 It's been widely implied and known in the books that Valyrian Steel can kill The Others....even though it has never been outright shown or proven yet. All the show did was verify what many of us suspected anyways, so it's no big deal, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The main argument here was that dragonsteel couldn't be Valyrian still because that was too obvious. Which is not a good argument. Now, that doesn't mean Valyrian steel is, indeed, dragonsteel. The Valyrians were not around when The Long Night came. My own theory: Lightbringer and dragonsteel are the same things: Dawn, forged from Dragon bones (a star that fell from the sky). The Daynes are the ancestors of the Valyrians (they both share the cool swords, silver hair and purple eyes), and Valyrian Steel was forged just like Dawn was: from dead dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 My own theory: Lightbringer and dragonsteel are the same things: Dawn, forged from Dragon bones (a star that fell from the sky). The Daynes are the ancestors of the Valyrians (they both share the cool swords, silver hair and purple eyes), and Valyrian Steel was forged just like Dawn was: from dead dragons. I think GRRM himself has debunked the dragonbone theory in an SSM (EDIT: See SSM at the bottom of this post). Per the Worldbook, Valyrian Steel is forged with the use of dragonflame and blood magic. The Qohorik are the only ones who can reforge VS and it is implied that they can do that by sacrificing slaves. However, they are unable to create the raw material for new Valyrian Steel blades because they don't have dragons. Dawn is most likely made similarly, but instead of regular ore they did indeed use the heart of a fallen star, combined with a blood sacrifice (Nissa Nissa) and dragonfire. This method actually has some really interesting possible story implications btw. A lot of people over the years have assumed that the actual Iron Throne will be destroyed sooner or later. No one has ever really come up with a way how though. Now, thanks to our new knowledge on VS we might have found our reason. The IT was created with dragonfire, so it would be ideal raw material to reforge into Valyrian Steel blades. If the blades all originated from the victims of the Battle of Fire, additional blood sacrifices might not even be needed. It would be a great symbolic gesture, literally smelting the Iron Throne down to protect the people. Another possibility is that someone in Daenerys vicinity will be able to create new blades by using her dragons. The most likely candidate is Marwyn of course, with his occult knowledge. Tyrion might crack the formula to, given his knowledge of dragonlore. However, who knows who Daenerys and company will pick up in tWoW. Tohbo Mott, Ser Gendry or someone new. Perhaps they will rekindle the art of making VS (alone or in group). Exciting times :) EDIT: Here is the SSM. I have bolded the relevant pieces of information :) January 01, 2002 VALYRIA-RELATED SUBJECTS Did Tohbo Mott ever teach Gendry the secrets of reworking Valyrian steel? Interesting question. Who or what were the Stormsingers? What could they do? Another eastern magical discipline. What happened to Ser Arthur Dayne's sword Dawn after Ned brought it back to Ashara? Dawn remains at Starfall, until another Sword of the Morning shall arise. In Valyria did they work Dragonbone into Valyrian steel? No. Did Tyrion ever finish reading the book concerning dragons that he borrowed from Winterfell? Yes. source: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1193/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think GRRM himself has debunked the dragonbone theory in an SSM (EDIT: See SSM at the bottom of this post). Per the Worldbook, Valyrian Steel is forged with the use of dragonflame and blood magic. The Qohorik are the only ones who can reforge VS and it is implied that they can do that by sacrificing slaves. However, they are unable to create the raw material for new Valyrian Steel blades because they don't have dragons. Dawn is most likely made similarly, but instead of regular ore they did indeed use the heart of a fallen star, combined with a blood sacrifice (Nissa Nissa) and dragonfire. This method actually has some really interesting possible story implications btw. A lot of people over the years have assumed that the actual Iron Throne will be destroyed sooner or later. No one has ever really come up with a way how though. Now, thanks to our new knowledge on VS we might have found our reason. The IT was created with dragonfire, so it would be ideal raw material to reforge into Valyrian Steel blades. If the blades all originated from the victims of the Battle of Fire, additional blood sacrifices might not even be needed. It would be a great symbolic gesture, literally smelting the Iron Throne down to protect the people. Another possibility is that someone in Daenerys vicinity will be able to create new blades by using her dragons. The most likely candidate is Marwyn of course, with his occult knowledge. Tyrion might crack the formula to, given his knowledge of dragonlore. However, who knows who Daenerys and company will pick up in tWoW. Tohbo Mott, Ser Gendry or someone new. Perhaps they will rekindle the art of making VS (alone or in group). Exciting times :) EDIT: Here is the SSM. I have bolded the relevant pieces of information :) Did not know about the SSM, thank you. Still, would you say they could have used the hearts of Dragons to forge the blades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Beyond The Web Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Could it be as simple as Valyrian Steel containing some sort of dragonglass, maybe mixed into the steel as it is forged somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Did not know about the SSM, thank you. Still, would you say they could have used the hearts of Dragons to forge the blades? Live dragons? Seems like a terribly wasteful exchange, sacrifice a dragon for a sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Did not know about the SSM, thank you. Still, would you say they could have used the hearts of Dragons to forge the blades? Personally, I don't think so. What made the dragonbone theory so appealing (Before the SSM I to assumed that Valyrian Steel was made with dragonbone) is that we know from the books that the bones contain a high amount of iron. Furthermore, if VS ever had to be remade, we had a ready source available thanks to the fact that the Targaryens kept all their dragonskulls. Quite some blades could be forged out of that I imagine. Of course, the dragonbone theory had one major drawback. Namely that dragonbone still seemed to circulate quite a lot, since we know of hilts, bows and unused skeletons in the books. You would expect the Qohorik to travel the world to find every last scrap of dragonbone imaginable. Dragonheart doesn't have that drawback, but it seems awfully costly to trade in a dragon for a measly blade. You also have the problem that there is no ready source for new VS then. Unless Dany was willing to slaughter one of her dragons. It also lacks the mention of a physical property that would give us a clue, just what made all of us think dragonbones were involved in the first place. If it's a combination of dragonfire and blood sacrifice, you have the best of both words. If dragonflame is needed, it's easily explained why the Qohorik can't make new VS blades. The fact that it is stated many times that dragonflame burns hotter than all other types of fire also gives us a physical property that explains why the VS is so special. Plus, now that there are three firebreathing dragons back in the world, we have a new source for Valyrian Steel available :) EDIT: + You also have text support from TWOIAF for the combo dragonfire and blood sacrifice :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The Demon of the Trident... and see how an Other craps his pants... Since he's dead, obsidian blades then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Obsidian. Fire. Valyrian steel. Common steel would kill them as well but their ice armor and weapons may shatter it. GRRM said they are not undead so I cant imagine an Other surviving a ax to the skull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Obsidian. Fire. Valyrian steel. Common steel would kill them as well but their ice armor and weapons may shatter it.Not just any fire I think. Magic fire, like dragon flame or wildfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Live dragons? Seems like a terribly wasteful exchange, sacrifice a dragon for a sword. Personally, I don't think so. What made the dragonbone theory so appealing (Before the SSM I to assumed that Valyrian Steel was made with dragonbone) is that we know from the books that the bones contain a high amount of iron. Furthermore, if VS ever had to be remade, we had a ready source available thanks to the fact that the Targaryens kept all their dragonskulls. Quite some blades could be forged out of that I imagine. Of course, the dragonbone theory had one major drawback. Namely that dragonbone still seemed to circulate quite a lot, since we know of hilts, bows and unused skeletons in the books. You would expect the Qohorik to travel the world to find every last scrap of dragonbone imaginable. Dragonheart doesn't have that drawback, but it seems awfully costly to trade in a dragon for a measly blade. You also have the problem that there is no ready source for new VS then. Unless Dany was willing to slaughter one of her dragons. It also lacks the mention of a physical property that would give us a clue, just what made all of us think dragonbones were involved in the first place. If it's a combination of dragonfire and blood sacrifice, you have the best of both words. If dragonflame is needed, it's easily explained why the Qohorik can't make new VS blades. The fact that it is stated many times that dragonflame burns hotter than all other types of fire also gives us a physical property that explains why the VS is so special. Plus, now that there are three firebreathing dragons back in the world, we have a new source for Valyrian Steel available :) EDIT: + You also have text support from TWOIAF for the combo dragonfire and blood sacrifice :P Old dragons about to die. They are as big as they can get, and as ancient and powerful as they would be needed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Old dragons about to die. They are as big as they can get, and as ancient and powerful as they would be needed to. 1) How do you know that they are about to die 2) If they are dieing, do they make for good sacrifices? They aren't full of life anymore, blood sacrifice might be tainted then Just of the top of my head some problems with dragonhearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 1) How do you know that they are about to die 2) If they are dieing, do they make for good sacrifices? They aren't full of life anymore, blood sacrifice might be tainted then Just of the top of my head some problems with dragonhearts. Valyrians sure know. And while they aren't full of life anymore, they are as great as a dragon could get. And as powerful. Old dragons killing younger ones have been quite a trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Dawn is most likely made similarly, but instead of regular ore they did indeed use the heart of a fallen star, combined with a blood sacrifice (Nissa Nissa) and dragonfire. If they had dragons, why should they need swords against the Others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Valyrians sure know. Yeah, I'm affraid that isn't supported by the text at all. They could have been able to do so, but that is definitely not a certainty. . And while they aren't full of life anymore, they are as great as a dragon could get. And as powerful. Old dragons killing younger ones have been quite a trend. I don't see how that really relates to my point though. They aren't full of life anymore, less life force and potential can be harnassed from them. Blood sacrifices exist on life force. That's why Craster's sacrifices his babies to the Others instead of letting them grow for a while or why Stannis who has already been drained once isn't able to serve for another helping of shadowmagic. If they had dragons, why should they need swords against the Others? Observe my post and see that I have written about dragonflame not about the possession of dragons. We know they once were a presence in Westeros, but in order to get dragonfire one doesn't necessarily need to command a dragon. Perhaps AA stole it in a Prometheus like fashion or something like that. He might have provoked the beast and used the fire he stole there to make his sword. Just one of many possible scenarios that don't include a rider/dragon relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarz_Einhorn Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 A theory I'm sure has been raised before is that it will be one or more of the dragons that lays waste to the WW and their Wights as they advance on the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The main argument here was that dragonsteel couldn't be Valyrian still because that was too obvious. Which is not a good argument. Now, that doesn't mean Valyrian steel is, indeed, dragonsteel. The Valyrians were not around when The Long Night came. My own theory: Lightbringer and dragonsteel are the same things: Dawn, forged from Dragon bones (a star that fell from the sky). The Daynes are the ancestors of the Valyrians (they both share the cool swords, silver hair and purple eyes), and Valyrian Steel was forged just like Dawn was: from dead dragons. Dawn cannot be made of dragon bones. Dragonbone is black due to its high iron content. Tyrion's second AGoT chapter. However, dragonbone weapons could be the dragonsteel that Sam found references to in those old records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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