Rant and Rave Without Repercussion 2 (Book Spoilers)

[Eucratides_Megas]

On second watch I finally get it. The writers are actually doing a clever thesis statement on the idea of absolute sacrifice.

This never happens to Stannis in the books because it`s a "what if." It's brilliant! Hats off D&D! You guys did great. You had us all fooled. Well played lads.

Seriously, it devolved into farce, all because they wanted to thin the cast and they hated Stannis to begin with. To me the best possible story line would have been that his sacrifice worked, he achieved what he set out to achieve, and holding the Iron Throne was forced to confront just how hollow that achievement was without his daughter.

He's a king with no heirs, a parent with no children----so in the biological sense, and metaphorical sense, he is doomed to see his line go extinct. That's potent stuff, and also a great engine for a redemptive arc to truly balance the character scales and give us a truly complex picture of a human being.

But nope---sacrifice, army deserts, wife suicides,Mel runs, Boltons turn on God mode, Stannis dies at the hands of ShowBrienne on behalf of his idiot brother. Just pathetic, D&D, absolutely pathetic.

[Lady Blackmont]

I will admit that I don't mind the kick in the pants for George. He definately needed something.

[The Northern Scholar]

I thought it was interesting that Batfinger was absent from the finale. I find it extremely frustrating how they've used Batfinger as the "go-to" person for political intrigue. Rather than show the Northern Lords at Winterfell, or the negotiations of Littlefinger in the Vale, they just use Batfinger's convoluted plans as a stand in for "playing the game." I think it's rather lazy. Littlefinger is a smart and calculating player. Batfinger just wants to make chaos, I guess.

[Le Cygne]

Sorry, I forget who posted this, but it was good. He is very good at sarcasm and the review was drenched with it.

I especially liked when he paused to honor slash diss the bad pussies remark. What is wrong with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks9VeB5vI70

[MyLittleFinger]

Seriously, it devolved into farce, all because they wanted to thin the cast and they hated Stannis to begin with. To me the best possible story line would have been that his sacrifice worked, he achieved what he set out to achieve, and holding the Iron Throne was forced to confront just how hollow that achievement was without his daughter.

He's a king with no heirs, a parent with no children----so in the biological sense, and metaphorical sense, he is doomed to see his line go extinct. That's potent stuff, and also a great engine for a redemptive arc to truly balance the character scales and give us a truly complex picture of a human being.

But nope---sacrifice, army deserts, wife suicides,Mel runs, Boltons turn on God mode, Stannis dies at the hands of ShowBrienne on behalf of his idiot brother. Just pathetic, D&D, absolutely pathetic.

I feel you. It made me laugh in a very cynical way. Especially just the endless extras telling him the bad news one by one. It was like out of a comedy except Dillane was playing so straight and awesome I couldn't look away.

Also why the fuck would a sellsword army abandon him because he killed his kid? They got paid already and will get paid a hell of a lot more when/if they win. THE SNOW IS FUCKING GONE. Time for this overwhelming force to strike, isn't that the whole point of why Stannis "outnumbers" the Boltons by so much in the show that he had more men than Mance? Yeesh.

What hope can a sellsword find in the North right now? Bolton would never take in people trying to kill them previously. The Northern Lords don't exist. The Wall doesn't pay and Stannis has the only ships that could bring them home. Do they expect the Iron Bank to pay them for abandoning their investment? That's suicide. Completely moronic from all sides...but the One True King Renly got to be avenged so it was all worth it, right?

[Le Cygne]

Still a long way to catch up but I wanted to say this is how I feel now. I have no emotional attachment now. Last week it completely died off along with Shireen. I was angry last week. Now I'm just empty about it all. The show brought me to the books so I clung to that emotional attachment longer than I should have.

I'll probably keep watching but I do have hope that TWOW will be out before next season starts. One way to look at is that we could be thankful if what's happening with the show is contributing to renewed vigour and motivation in GRRM to get it finished.

Same here, the last drop is gone. I realized when I laughed at one of my favorite book characters saying she wanted to die, and thought, yeah, why don't you, it really was all over.

[R4W13Y]

Thank you for this answer. So either way I imagine it's a story decision not a cost efficient one. Particularly since in the wolf dreams they would just have to do a "through the eyes of" the way they did with Bran

Agreed, it's a priority decision. They thought the priority should be on multiple (unneeded) dragon scenes and a (n unneeded) wight battle. I would be okay with even just trained dogs, to be honest. That's something, at least :dunno:

[A_Cornered_Wolf]

I feel you. It made me laugh in a very cynical way. Especially just the endless extras telling him the bad news one by one. It was like out of a comedy except Dillane was playing so straight and awesome I couldn't look away.

Also why the fuck would a sellsword army abandon him because he killed his kid? They got paid already and will get paid a hell of a lot more when/if they win. THE SNOW IS FUCKING GONE. Time for this overwhelming force to strike, isn't that the whole point of why Stannis "outnumbers" the Boltons by so much in the show that he had more men than Mance? Yeesh.

What hope can a sellsword find in the North right now? Bolton would never take in people trying to kill them previously. The Northern Lords don't exist. The Wall doesn't pay and Stannis has the only ships that could bring them home. Do they expect the Iron Bank to pay them for abandoning their investment? That's suicide. Completely moronic from all sides...but the One True King Renly got to be avenged so it was all worth it, right?

I've seen people honeypot that the sell swords 'joined the Boltons'. This is so ridiculous. It's just not logistically possible. How do they get to Bolton men to offer up their services without getting killed. And why would the Bolton's believe their desertion is for real, and not a trick by Stannis? Apparently viewer knowledge of events has been added to the ever increasing arsenal of Bolton abilities.

[RGBeyondAsshai]

Sorry, I forget who posted this, but it was good. He is very good at sarcasm and the review was drenched with it.

I especially liked when he paused to honor slash diss the bad pussies remark. What is wrong with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks9VeB5vI70

Un-less... lol

I would be impressed if his Stannis thoughts are true.

[Lady Blackmont]

I imagine numerous viewers are watching because cuz, ya know, boobs, blood, and dragons. I really don't want to insult Unsullied, but I how else do I put this?

[Eucratides_Megas]

I feel you. It made me laugh in a very cynical way. Especially just the endless extras telling him the bad news one by one. It was like out of a comedy except Dillane was playing so straight and awesome I couldn't look away.

Also why the fuck would a sellsword army abandon him because he killed his kid? They got paid already and will get paid a hell of a lot more when/if they win. THE SNOW IS FUCKING GONE. Time for this overwhelming force to strike, isn't that the whole point of why Stannis "outnumbers" the Boltons by so much in the show that he had more men than Mance? Yeesh.

What hope can a sellsword find in the North right now? Bolton would never take in people trying to kill them previously. The Northern Lords don't exist. The Wall doesn't pay and Stannis has the only ships that could bring them home. Do they expect the Iron Bank to pay them for abandoning their investment? That's suicide. Completely moronic from all sides...but the One True King Renly got to be avenged so it was all worth it, right?

I had such a visceral instant dislike of Renly when he claimed the throne, mostly because knowing their histories, and knowing that the brothers are keenly aware of each other and what they'd do in any given situation, Renly chose a path which could only lead to his brother's death. His brother was the rightful heir, his brother was iron-willed and would not give up his claim, so he doomed his brother to death. Only Mel and her magic turned that situation on its head, but I've never forgiven Renly for letting his ambition (and the Tyrell's who had their hands so far up his posterior he was practically their sock-puppet) basically lead him to a course condemning his brother---the man who kept him safe from that same Tyrell host during Robert's Rebellion---to death.

I have no fucks to give for Renly.

[LadySoftheart]

Ugh, I'm so annoyed and disappointed by the travesty of this season that I am starting my reread of ASOIAF this weekend and restarting my long-dormant reread blog (I began it before reading DwD and then was reading too fast to post comments on what I was reading - but GoT Balon Greyjoy gives me hope that is dead may never die including circa 2012 blogs) ;)

I also agree that the direwolves are sorely missed on the show. I found Arya's wolf dreams - especially the one where she finds her mother's body - so moving and sad. If there is one thing the show has done for me, it's that I really appreciate characters who weren't even my favorites to begin with.

[R4W13Y]

I've seen people honeypot that the sell swords 'joined the Boltons'. This is so ridiculous. It's just not logistically possible. How do they get to Bolton men to offer up their services without getting killed. And why would the Bolton's believe their desertion is for real, and not a trick by Stannis? Apparently viewer knowledge of events has been added to the ever increasing arsenal of Bolton abilities.

Yup, this is such a ridiculous honeypot bullshit that it's hard to even acknowledge it. You and MyLittleFinger did a good job of debunking those ideas.

And even so, if that stupidity was the case, one line from the glorified extra to say "they were seen headed towards WF, presumably to join forces with the Boltons" would explain this all away. But then they would have Stannis look even stupider for fighting than he already does, so that's probably why they didn't do that.

[R4W13Y]

Ugh, I'm so annoyed and disappointed by the travesty of this season that I am starting my reread of ASOIAF this weekend and restarting my long-dormant reread blog (I began it before reading DwD and then was reading too fast to post comments on what I was reading - but GoT Balon Greyjoy gives me hope that is dead may never die including circa 2012 blogs) ;)

I also agree that the direwolves are sorely missed on the show. I found Arya's wolf dreams - especially the one where she finds her mother's body - so moving and sad. If there is one thing the show has done for me, it's that I really appreciate characters who weren't even my favorites to begin with.

I would be interested in looking at your blog, if you give it out openly to strangers :) I'm starting a reread myself very soon.

Arya's wolf dreams are amazing. I don't see how they couldn't have been done on the show seeing as how they did a good job with Bran's and it didn't even require an actual dog. Then she could be seen talking to the waif about them.

I also agree that the show makes me appreciate plot points and characters and locations I didn't much care for in the books :P

[Montoo]

Well... that was one big puddle of diarree.

I'm not going to name all the things that is wrong with this episode and how they are butchering the story bigtime...

... Only thing I will say is that they try to hard to make people believe Jon Snow is dead.

Having the actor, director and Dumb & Dumber tell us he's dead does not cut it for me.

Ofcourse they tell us he's dead otherwise the entire cliffhangar and f*cking "shockvalue"(which they so love and have build this entire season on) is gone ...

They have done to much forshadowing in season 3 and this season for me to believe he's dead and will not come back. Why introduce the kiss of life if you're never going to use it?

Why revive Beric after his fight with the hound if he's gone and never to be seen again two episodes later? Why have Mel meet Thoros? Why have Mel eyeballing Jon all season?

Why have R+L=J foreshadowed * 10 this season, while not touching on it since season 1? Why have Mel return to CB?

And the list goes on and on... People saying the show did not foreshadow his ressurection clearly did not pay attention.

I will not accept Jon is actually dead until the end of the entire show. They have to be the absolutely stupidest people in the world to kill of your plot armor character in order to "shock" your audience.

[Eucratides_Megas]

Yup, this is such a ridiculous honeypot bullshit that it's hard to even acknowledge it. You and MyLittleFinger did a good job of debunking those ideas.

And even so, if that stupidity was the case, one line from the glorified extra to say "they were seen headed towards WF, presumably to join forces with the Boltons" would explain this all away. But then they would have Stannis look even stupider for fighting than he already does, so that's probably why they didn't do that.

Crap, this could have turned into a great storyline. Instead of "half our army deserted sire!" It could have been "Half our-" "Army is gone, soldier, not deserted. Sent on a mission" Stannis said to his squire.

The sellswords pretend to defect, they convince the Boltons telling them the true story of Shireen's sacrifice and also their dislike with the whole campaign, Bolton's let them in. Slaughter ensues, Stannis marches inside Winterfell with Ramsay and Roose either killed or escaped.

And that would be a 1000 times more palatable the great farce that was ShowMarchOnWinterfell.

[RGBeyondAsshai]

I would be interested in looking at your blog, if you give it out openly to strangers :) I'm starting a reread myself very soon.

Arya's wolf dreams are amazing. I don't see how they couldn't have been done on the show seeing as how they did a good job with Bran's and it didn't even require an actual dog. Then she could be seen talking to the waif about them.

I also agree that the show makes me appreciate plot points and characters and locations I didn't much care for in the books :P

This :)

[RGBeyondAsshai]

Well... that was one big puddle of diarree.

I'm not going to name all the things that is wrong with this episode and how they are butchering the story bigtime...

... Only thing I will say is that they try to hard to make people believe Jon Snow is dead.

Having the actor, director and Dumb & Dumber tell us he's dead does not cut it for me.

Ofcourse they tell us he's dead otherwise the entire cliffhangar and f*cking "shockvalue"(which they so love and have build this entire season on) is gone ...

They have done to much forshadowing in season 3 and this season for me to believe he's dead and will not come back. Why introduce the kiss of life if you're never going to use it?

Why revive Beric after his fight with the hound if he's gone and never to be seen again two episodes later? Why have Mel meet Thoros? Why have Mel eyeballing Jon all season?

Why have R+L=J foreshadowed * 10 this season, while not touching on it since season 1? Why have Mel return to CB?

And the list goes on and on... People saying the show did not foreshadow his ressurection clearly did not pay attention.

I will not accept Jon is actually dead until the end of the entire show. They have to be the absolutely stupidest people in the world to kill of your plot armor character in order to "shock" your audience.

Thank you. I mean I know it, but the more people who say it the better I feel. They did give us Dorne...but even they aren't that stupid.

[Le Cygne]

Well, since they invited this. And maybe TV Tropes is not the best source for Freud.

"You want a good girl, but you need a bad pussy." ~ Benioff and Weiss

Madonna-Whore Complex:

A pattern of thought that divides female-humanity into two mutually exclusive categories: Madonnas and Whores. The virtuous Madonna figure, possessing and protecting social virtue (and deploring sexuality) is an object of worship and everything that all females should aspire to be. However, sex is not part of this. Anyone who fails to live up to the Madonna standard is a Whore driven exclusively by sexual desire and (therefore) lacking in morality and humanity. An active sex life makes one a Whore... unless one is married, and sometimes not even then.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MadonnaWhoreComplex

[MyLittleFinger]

I had such a visceral instant dislike of Renly when he claimed the throne, mostly because knowing their histories, and knowing that the brothers are keenly aware of each other and what they'd do in any given situation, Renly chose a path which could only lead to his brother's death. His brother was the rightful heir, his brother was iron-willed and would not give up his claim, so he doomed his brother to death. Only Mel and her magic turned that situation on its head, but I've never forgiven Renly for letting his ambition (and the Tyrell's who had their hands so far up his posterior he was practically their sock-puppet) basically lead him to a course condemning his brother---the man who kept him safe from that same Tyrell host during Robert's Rebellion---to death.

I have no fucks to give for Renly.

I have no problem with Renly or anything that happened. I just hoped that Stannis would tell Brienne that she's wielding the sword given to her by the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard to King Tommen Baratheon...so...kill me you hypocrite.