Rant and Rave Without Repercussion 2 (Book Spoilers)

[R4W13Y]

Stiff dull drapery, space age synthetics, and in real life those rags Arya was wearing would have gotten up and walked off on their own after so long.

I don't know much about costume-making and the like, but I can always sense something is just weird and off with the costumes. I love when people like you can come in and tell me why the costumes are indeed bad :)

I agree, the dresses are so thick and heavy and stiff - even in KL which is so bizarre since it's warmer. The ones they had in season 1 for KL were a little better in that sense, since they were thinner. And the patterns are uninspired and bland.

Plus Margaery's whole wardrobe is just laughably bad as well as the Sand Fakes/Myrcella.

Arya's rags were just a little dirty and torn, no indication that they've been worn for years in horrible circumstances in the wilderness!

Oh man, what sort of madness will Ramsay the Supervillain get up to next season? Will he kill Euron with six good men in a row boat? Will he track Sansa and Theon down to the Wall?

Haha oh god Rambosay and Euron the badass one-eyed pirate in the same season. It will be supervillian campy madness :lol: I want them to team up for the infamous D&D buddy travel comedy trope.

This might help: theculturalvacuum.tumblr.com/post/116816249708/the-book-snob-glossary

They're just...they're not Cersei and Jaime.

Cheb, I got a notification that you replied to something but it looks like it was deleted. If it was important or something you wanted to discuss, let me know :)

I can't take seriously anyone who thinks Daario is Euron. Just no.

Hahaha same. I love reading through those crackpot theories though, they're hilarious. Benjen is Daario is even more hilarious than Euron is Daario :lol:

[LadySoftheart]

Eh, I still think its more intelligent than most stuff out there. It has gone quite a bit downhill though, and at no point would I have considered it the MOST intelligent show. Certainly there others shows that deal more thoroughly and intellectually with philosophy and life in general.

See, for me "intelligent" means that the writing is consistent and logical, that plots grow out of the characters making choices that are in character, and that the writers trust the viewers to make the connections and to make up their minds about how to view a character. I will agree that in earlier seasons, to a greater or lesser degree, GoT did many of these things but I think that was more a function of how closely they were hewing to Martin's storyline, because he does do all these things. Now that the shows' main writers have gone off to find their own paths, there is a consistent inconsistency, a lack of logic that started to show quite massively last season. I was actually fine with many of the show's changes, including such controversial things as Shae's being genuinely fond of Sansa and genuinely in love with Tyrion, except that they never follow through on their own changes. Shae is never shown to be threatened by Tywin or Cersei for her false testimony against Tyrion, and there's never any reason given for her to attack Tyrion or be in Tywin's bed: she just is, and that is completely putting character at the service of plot. The show's version of Shae, who genuinely loved Tyrion, who genuinely wanted to protect Sansa, would not have done the exact same things Book!Shae does because she is not the same person, so ... on the show, she just does these things for reasons ...

In this episode, there is NO REASON for the NW guys to kill Jon except that it's a plot point to tick off so they can say they are following the books. Why do Stannis and Doran and the Tyrells put the sole heirs of their houses into mortal danger? Who knows? Why did the mutineers at Craster's Keep decide to imprison Ghost and feed him their precious stocks of food rather than just killing him? Why did Yara go on that silly rescue mission and then give up without a fight? These are all examples of characterization servicing plot, and no show that does that so consistently is something I will ever consider particularly intelligent especially when they have thousands of pages of source material to draw on which is telling a quite different story :P The plot should be something where the character is actions are saying "here I stand;I can do no other" and we, the audience, also agree with that because we know the characters. At this point, that's actually very hard to say what a character will do on GoT, but that's not because the show is subtle or mysterious, but simply because their characterizations are so inconsistent and changeable. (The only thing we really know is that Tyrion is always right.)

So I find it very hard to say that this is the most intelligent or one of the most intelligent shows on tv. We keep talking about Michael Bay pejoratively, but he helms a show (on Starz!) that actually does use character to advance plot - "Black Sails" has big shocking moments that are genuinely shocking, but when you look back at them, they also make sense because they are consistent with the characters as we've come to know them. Yes, honestly, I think Michael Bay might do a better job at this point :P

What GoT has going for it is: spectacular locations, the trappings of a fantasy series with a huge budget (so this isn't BBC "Merlin" level CGI for dragons for example), fantastic actors (except for two of the biggest roles :P), and the novelty factor (oh, and lots of English accents, which I think Americans like me automatically equate with quality tv - thanks, Masterpiece Theater!) But Downton Abbey has a lot of the same things, and I think that's a really critically overrated show.

Back when GoT first began, Showtime debuted "The Borgias" at the same time, and I was really skeptical about that show but also worried that it would be a rival for GoT. I finally watched it and while some of the history is really mangled, I think that show was better written and all around better at portraying moral ambiguity than GoT has become. I'm starting to think the wrong show was canceled after season 3!

Phew, thanks for reading if you did! It felt great to get that off my chest and Ser Bucket, I hope I was not being argumentative with you specifically, you just gave me an opening to express my feelings in hopefully a semi-coherent way!!

[Red Helm]

Let's stop referring to D&D as Gaston and Lefou. They aren't even fit to shine Lefou's boots, let alone those of the great Gaston! Plus, D&D couldn't pull off a song like this in a million years. :P

Dimwit and Worm?

[rosehustle1]

YEAH!!!

*cartwheels around*

He then proceeded to say, "showing a man losing it all would have shocked our audience. And we don't want them to feel their sensitivities are attacked".

Wow. So the male characters get coddled and the female characters get gratuitously raped, exploited, and tortured. What?! So, no one's sensitivities were attacked when Sansa was raped for no reason other than shock value? Am I in Bizarro world?

[Cas Stark]

Yeah I know. Everytime I think D&D are building to something elaborate and clever it always finds a way to underwhelm even my lowest expectations.

A lot of people thought Trystane would be pseudo Aegon or pseudo Quentyn and Dorne would fight for the throne too. But if Trystane is just a plot device then that's disappointing. I suppose they're streamlining Dorne's involvement in the upcoming war too like with Stannis/The North so expect no major Dorne developments.

I have no idea what they're doing with either region. There are no people in the North or Dorne. I have no idea where the fuck Roose Bolton got that gigantic army, since we never saw a single lord or soldier at Winterfell, only servants. And nobody in Dorne to see off the heir except the traitorous trio and their crazy ass mother? Sure.

Here is what I know:

I want Olly dead. And Mel dead. ASAP. Those are my priorities which I'm fairly sure will not happen, because Olly is one of the show's new favs and Mel is sexy.

[Red Helm]

Hahaha same. I love reading through those crackpot theories though, they're hilarious. Benjen is Daario is even more hilarious than Euron is Daario :lol:

...I thought that was a parody...

[SerDesmondHume]

Let's stop referring to D&D as Gaston and Lefou. They aren't even fit to shine Lefou's boots, let alone those of the great Gaston! Plus, D&D couldn't pull off a song like this in a million years. :P

Slightly off topic. But Disney's Gaston is how I always pictured book Renly looking like. They even have similar personalities. As for calling Renly the rightful king they clearly did that so casual show only people would hate him more and think he's a usurper.

[HexMachina]

http://www.randomhousebooks.com/lists/only-watch-game-of-thrones-heres-what-youre-missing/

[Veltigar]

Dimwit and Worm?

I'm partial to Dingus & Doofus or Dumb & Dumber myself. Dumb & Dumber in particular seems like an apt comparison. This scene from that film pretty much captures how D&D spent their time writing this show.

[Red Helm]

Slightly off topic. But Disney's Gaston is how I always pictured book Renly looking like. They even have similar personalities. As for calling Renly the rightful king they clearly did that so casual show only people would hate him more and think he's a usurper.

So the Beast is Robert?

[The Prince of Porne]

Ooooh, Ramsay and Tyene sitting in a tree!

First comes flaying, then comes slaying, and then comes the rape of a another poor character!

:ack:

Oh god, don't give D&D ideas. Ramsay clearly wants the bad pussy.

[Mark Antony]

All the nights watch traitors parting the sea for Olly to get the kill blow like he's head conspirator made me chuckle.

[rosehustle1]

See, for me "intelligent" means that the writing is consistent and logical, that plots grow out of the characters making choices that are in character, and that the writers trust the viewers to make the connections and to make up their minds about how to view a character. I will agree that in earlier seasons, to a greater or lesser degree, GoT did many of these things but I think that was more a function of how closely they were hewing to Martin's storyline, because he does do all these things. Now that the shows' main writers have gone off to find their own paths, there is a consistent inconsistency, a lack of logic that started to show quite massively last season. I was actually fine with many of the show's changes, including such controversial things as Shae's being genuinely fond of Sansa and genuinely in love with Tyrion, except that they never follow through on their own changes. Shae is never shown to be threatened by Tywin or Cersei for her false testimony against Tyrion, and there's never any reason given for her to attack Tyrion or be in Tywin's bed: she just is, and that is completely putting character at the service of plot. The show's version of Shae, who genuinely loved Tyrion, who genuinely wanted to protect Sansa, would not have done the exact same things Book!Shae does because she is not the same person, so ... on the show, she just does these things for reasons ...

In this episode, there is NO REASON for the NW guys to kill Jon except that it's a plot point to tick off so they can say they are following the books. Why do Stannis and Doran and the Tyrells put the sole heirs of their houses into mortal danger? Who knows? Why did the mutineers at Craster's Keep decide to imprison Ghost and feed him their precious stocks of food rather than just killing him? Why did Yara go on that silly rescue mission and then give up without a fight? These are all examples of characterization servicing plot, and no show that does that so consistently is something I will ever consider particularly intelligent especially when they have thousands of pages of source material to draw on which is telling a quite different story :P The plot should be something where the character is actions are saying "here I stand;I can do no other" and we, the audience, also agree with that because we know the characters. At this point, that's actually very hard to say what a character will do on GoT, but that's not because the show is subtle or mysterious, but simply because their characterizations are so inconsistent and changeable. (The only thing we really know is that Tyrion is always right.)

So I find it very hard to say that this is the most intelligent or one of the most intelligent shows on tv. We keep talking about Michael Bay pejoratively, but he helms a show (on Starz!) that actually does use character to advance plot - "Black Sails" has big shocking moments that are genuinely shocking, but when you look back at them, they also make sense because they are consistent with the characters as we've come to know them. Yes, honestly, I think Michael Bay might do a better job at this point :P

What GoT has going for it is: spectacular locations, the trappings of a fantasy series with a huge budget (so this isn't BBC "Merlin" level CGI for dragons for example), fantastic actors (except for two of the biggest roles :P), and the novelty factor (oh, and lots of English accents, which I think Americans like me automatically equate with quality tv - thanks, Masterpiece Theater!) But Downton Abbey has a lot of the same things, and I think that's a really critically overrated show.

Back when GoT first began, Showtime debuted "The Borgias" at the same time, and I was really skeptical about that show but also worried that it would be a rival for GoT. I finally watched it and while some of the history is really mangled, I think that show was better written and all around better at portraying moral ambiguity than GoT has become. I'm starting to think the wrong show was canceled after season 3!

Phew, thanks for reading if you did! It felt great to get that off my chest and Ser Bucket, I hope I was not being argumentative with you specifically, you just gave me an opening to express my feelings in hopefully a semi-coherent way!!

You nailed it perfectly. I wish the critics were actually being critical instead of playing up to the popular kids.

[Red Helm]

All the nights watch traitors parting the sea for Olly to get the kill blow like he's head conspirator made me chuckle.

It was hilarious! As stated on the last thread, if Jon had Longclaw, then their threatrics with the sign could have backfired horribly. The scene was do stupid.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

First he will need a new girlfriend, won't he?

This should be the most important casting call of the coming season. Ramsay's Best Girl. It's a shame it's only one girl. Since we can't have the Bastard's Boys, he should get a posse of girls. What a scamp, eh?

[Cas Stark]

So does anyone in the North know that valyrian steel kills the Others? Did Jon tell anyone but Sam?

[Red Helm]

http://www.randomhousebooks.com/lists/only-watch-game-of-thrones-heres-what-youre-missing/

How dare they stain ADwD with the season 5 poster! They have woken dur dragon!

[kissdbyfire]

The better question is where will Sansa and Theon go period? Can't go to the Wall (as Evil!Thorne will just turn them over to Ramsey). No Stannis Army to help. Are they going to head back to Littlefinger and the Vale (with Brienne and Pod in tow)? Hoof it all the way to Last Hearth because reasons and Rickon?

My bet is they will be stuck traveling the requisite episodes to get to Castle Black after Jon's resurrection, despite Mel making it there in an episodes worth of time.

I think they're going to milk both Ramsay as a bad boy anti-hero - because it's their take on 'grey' characters - and the victimising of Sansa, so I'm expecting them to be recaptured by Ramsay. It gets better. See, now Ramsay is feeling invincible, in part because he is, and he'll be enraged by the escape and the death of his girlfriend, and will commit to inflicting pain with renewed gusto. :ack:

[Red Helm]

So does anyone in the North know that valyrian steel kills the Others? Did Jon tell anyone but Sam?

D&D are only being consistent with how they portrayed Jon in the other seasons: as an idiot.

[Cas Stark]

This should be the most important casting call of the coming season. Ramsay's Best Girl. It's a shame it's only one girl. Since we can't have the Bastard's Boys, he should get a posse of girls. What a scamp, eh?

The scary thing is, I'm not sure it won't happen.