Rant and Rave Without Repercussion 2 (Book Spoilers)

[Borodin]

Probably while listening to Jock Rocks volume 73

:bowdown:

[R4W13Y]

When they aged Missandei up I thought they were just combining her role with Irri's and she was going to be the one Daenerys sexually experimented with or took to bed on nights she felt lonely. Made sense, would have given Dany some character flavoring other than her one note of Mary Sue sanctimoniousness.

But no, they decided to give Grey Worm a girlfriend. Because all of us reading the Meereen plot all thought long and hard about how to improve the character of Grey Worm, that nexus of the story.

Same, that would have made sense, given Dany more depth, and added lesbian love scenes which hey, I thought D&D would love!

Yeah when I was reading the books, I thought "I really really want more scenes with Dany discussing Grey Worm's dick situation in full depth with someone" and "I really really want to know more about Grey Worm's love life".

In seriousness I'm fairly sure Sansa/Theon are going to be all about finding Bran and Rickon. They both have very strong reasons and motivations to do so. I don't know that they have any reason to head to the Riverlands with it being in total control by the Freys. The North, if they can get to a Lord they can trust, is probably the safest place for them save for Tyrell lands and there would be alot of hostile territory to cross to get there.

I'm hoping they don't gloss over Sansa calling Brienne out for not being their when the Bat Signal went up, but I somehow doubt it will come to pass.

That's possible, but they did drop the whole idea with Jon knowing Bran is alive too.

If they do decide to follow-up on this, which I'm not entirely convinced of, then I could see Sansa et al. going to the Wall, talking to Davos about it, and he sets off to find Rickon. But, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Rickon is not coming back in the show and/or Davos will not go looking for him. I'm also doubtful that they had Sansa know about Bran and Rickon for anything more than her beginning to trust Theon again after he sold her out.

I also seriously doubt if Sansa meets up with Brienne she will chastise her for the candle, since it seems reasonable that Brienne could have missed it for a number of reasons, considering it was such a stupid and bad idea to begin with. Unless Brienne straight up brings it up to Sansa, in which case, she should leave Brienne and never come back - but why would she bring it up of her own accord? Dude, I don't fucking know. This whole show is a confusing messy clusterfuck.

[R4W13Y]

Book Doran >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [posts] >>>>>>>>> Show Doran.

This is why I believe D&D are "those kind of fans". you know which ones I'm talking about, those who say "Stannis is evil, Dany is crazy, Cersei is feminist, Aegon is a Dragon ex Machina, Sansa is dumb...blah blah" without any further analysis. Those fans also say "Doran does nothing!!!". Yes, the man is passive as fuck and yes, the Sand Snakes (and Dorne) were completely right in wanting him doing something and be mad because he was just there. But he did do things. Things that didn't work but he did them. In the show, what has he done?? :dunno:

Haha no, you're totally right. They are the casual fans who do a skimming of the books only once, come up with very shallow conclusions, and don't analyze anything any further or give the text any critical thinking.

I honestly found book Doran pretty boring until this quote

I think that was kind of the point. You were supposed to question his beliefs and inaction, only to find out he's been planning something all along. Then you can go back and look at his inaction/actions regarding his daughter and his sons and the SS in a whole new light with the new information.

[Astromech]

I'm curious. What part of the episode did you guys hate the most?

For me nothing can't top Varys just showing up in Meereen in the most anticlimactic way possible, like "sup, what'd I miss?"

For a fraction of a second I thought it was Tyrion's imagination or some shit, but then I remembered that GoT doesn't do flashbacks or dreams or illusions

I mean, just compare that garbage to the Dance epilogue, a chapter even the staunchest haters of that book love. It's literally night and day

How to Train Your Drogon was a bit annoying, but Dorne by far. I was waiting for Alexander Siddig to just wheel himself off the pier.

[LadySoftheart]

That's possible, but they did drop the whole idea with Jon knowing Bran is alive too.

At this point, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they've totally forgotten that he knows that. As I pointed out in my mega-long post earlier this evening, they keep forgetting their own invented stuff (Cersei's fourth black-haired child; the fact that Shae was threatening people with death for spying on Sansa and then turns around and sells her out for no discernible onscreen reason, etc.) I have no reason to believe they remember that Jon actually does know Bran is alive, or that Sansa also knows this. I have every reason to suspect it will never, ever come up again or be addressed on the show. (See also: Blackfish's peeing prowess, the status of Edmure Tully - alive or dead? - whereabouts the BwB and Gendry... I do think they will address Balon Greyjoy's continuing aliveness next season, because they're casting Euron, but who knows, maybe he'll just appear and they'll never actually mention Balon again!)

[kissdbyfire]

Even Sansa... She learns they're alive on ep... 7? And not once does she ever bring it up with Theon (or anyone), exactly like Jon. Why? Why have the two learn and then never ever do/say anything about it? Stupid ass ideas, really.

[Le Cygne]

Even the grass bowed to Drogon. And he ate a horse. Come on, Dragon Power. And all we got was a dropped ring.

[aliasocfan]

I think that was kind of the point. You were supposed to question his beliefs and inaction, only to find out he's been planning something all along. Then you can go back and look at his inaction/actions regarding his daughter and his sons and the SS in a whole new light with the new information.

I am working on my reread now, but I'll get there.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Book Doran >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [posts] >>>>>>>>> Show Doran.

This is why I believe D&D are "those kind of fans". you know which ones I'm talking about, those who say "Stannis is evil, Dany is crazy, Cersei is feminist, Aegon is a Dragon ex Machina, Sansa is dumb...blah blah" without any further analysis.

I share one of those opinions. Guess which one :p

As to Doran, I do think his plan in the books is dumb, but at least he has a plan. Show!Doran has peanuts.

[Eucratides_Megas]

Same, that would have made sense, given Dany more depth, and added lesbian love scenes which hey, I thought D&D would love!

Yeah when I was reading the books, I thought "I really really want more scenes with Dany discussing Grey Worm's dick situation in full depth with someone" and "I really really want to know more about Grey Worm's love life"..

How incompetent does that make them, when showrunners renowned for their dedication to injecting graphic sex into almost every episode in every season actually pass up an opportunity for lesbianism? Good lord that's incompetence right there, lol

I really enjoyed the aspect of Irri's character that I think Daenerys enjoyed, in that she is utterly non-demanding, in no way seems to covet her khaleesi's affections or be jealous of others. At that point in the story, with Jorah becoming a lot more open about his intended affections, and later Daario's entrance onto the scene, Irri's the one she can make love to without having drama attached to it.

And yes, a giant missed opportunity there D&D. You could have had lesbians. Instead you gave us nude Ramsay Bolton. Gods of all men curse you for even conceiving of that horrific image (I always picture BookRamsay. ShowRamsay is just dreamy, and yet that makes it even creepier).

[The Prince of Porne]

People have probably asked this before, but if Ramsay caught and flayed the Winterfell granny (a.k.a. sole member of the GNC) and knew about the plan for Seynesa's escape, how did he not also discover Brienne in her super-secret lair? Who did he think the candle was going to be for?

[A_Cornered_Wolf]

Same, that would have made sense, given Dany more depth, and added lesbian love scenes which hey, I thought D&D would love!

Yeah when I was reading the books, I thought "I really really want more scenes with Dany discussing Grey Worm's dick situation in full depth with someone" and "I really really want to know more about Grey Worm's love life".

That's possible, but they did drop the whole idea with Jon knowing Bran is alive too.

If they do decide to follow-up on this, which I'm not entirely convinced of, then I could see Sansa et al. going to the Wall, talking to Davos about it, and he sets off to find Rickon. But, to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Rickon is not coming back in the show and/or Davos will not go looking for him. I'm also doubtful that they had Sansa know about Bran and Rickon for anything more than her beginning to trust Theon again after he sold her out.

I also seriously doubt if Sansa meets up with Brienne she will chastise her for the candle, since it seems reasonable that Brienne could have missed it for a number of reasons, considering it was such a stupid and bad idea to begin with. Unless Brienne straight up brings it up to Sansa, in which case, she should leave Brienne and never come back - but why would she bring it up of her own accord? Dude, I don't fucking know. This whole show is a confusing messy clusterfuck.

Since Brienne has an unnatural talent for stumbling into people, she stumbles into Sansa.

Brienne: My Lady. Thank the Seven I found you. How did you escape Winterfell?

Sansa: Theon killed one of Bolton's bitches, and we had to jump from the walls.

Brienne: Why, did you not get my message about the candle?

Sansa: THAT WAS YOU. I LIT THE CANDLE WHERE WERE YOU?

Assuming the stumbling onto each other, some version of that dialogue seems logical.

I'm feeling the Bran/Rickon search because the discussion between Sansa and Theon was one of his breakthrough moments so its very important. To the showrunners. It gives them a reason to keep fan-fave Davos around and/or gives Sansa some of Stannis Northern Lord recruitment plot. I just can see them taking her south again to bring her back North for the showdown with the White Walkers.

[Le Cygne]

No, I think Sansa is headed back to her own story. At least some of it. Brienne, too. We may even get some pretty pictures out of it.

GRRM is telling two pretty good BatB stories in the books, Sansa and the Hound, and Jaime and Brienne. He even put pretty pictures of them on his website.

Also he requested art for SanSan based on La Belle et la Bete that's hanging on his office wall. And here's a reminder that the show went there, too:

http://romancingthecage.tumblr.com/post/90157713456

[Eucratides_Megas]

People have probably asked this before, but if Ramsay caught and flayed the Winterfell granny (a.k.a. sole member of the GNC) and knew about the plan for Seynesa's escape, how did he not also discover Brienne in her super-secret lair? Who did he think the candle was going to be for?

Given how loose D&D are with "continuity" and "story-logic" it could have been the wight of Dontos Hollard, come to deliver Sansa to Batfingers underground lair.

Seriosuly, ShowRamsay seems way too preternaturally competent for the level of incompetence they're asking us to buy into here.

[LadySoftheart]

People have probably asked this before, but if Ramsay caught and flayed the Winterfell granny (a.k.a. sole member of the GNC) and knew about the plan for Seynesa's escape, how did he not also discover Brienne in her super-secret lair? Who did he think the candle was going to be for?

It's sort of an immovable object (Brienne) versus an irresistible force (Ramsay) conundrum on the show, isn't it? Since Ramsay has slaughtered all in his path and so has Brienne (Season 4-5 Brienne wouldn't have needed Jaime to save her from rape or the bear pit - she would have dismembered the bear with her bare hands and beaten Locke and his men to death with its femur at the rate she's going on now :P) I suspect that Ramsay doesn't know anyone's vision is so good that they can see a tiny candle flame in a distant tower ten miles away so he's been looking for Sansa's rescuer closer to home :P

[Eucratides_Megas]

Since Brienne has an unnatural talent for stumbling into people, she stumbles into Sansa.

Brienne: My Lady. Thank the Seven I found you. How did you escape Winterfell?

Sansa: Theon killed one of Bolton's bitches, and we had to jump from the walls.

Brienne: Why, did you not get my message about the candle?

Sansa: THAT WAS YOU. I LIT THE CANDLE WHERE WERE YOU?

Brienne: Oh I was busy killing Stannis Baratheon. He's the one who killed my dreamy Renly-muffin.

Sansa: You mean the Stannis who was trying to liberate the north from the Boltons and would have named me Wardeness of the North, restoring my family to power?

Brienne:....Oh.......Did I mention Renly was dreamy?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Would the unsullied even remember the Dothraki considering all connection to them has been obliterated since 2012? Wouldn't most simply be like "oh fuck who are these centaur savages?!"

A lot of them were "who are they??".

On second watch I finally get it. The writers are actually doing a clever thesis statement on the idea of absolute sacrifice.

This never happens to Stannis in the books because it`s a "what if." It's brilliant! Hats off D&D! You guys did great. You had us all fooled. Well played lads.

A "what if Stannis suddenly loses his brains"?

Well, since they invited this. And maybe TV Tropes is not the best source for Freud.

"You want a good girl, but you need a bad pussy." ~ Benioff and Weiss

Madonna-Whore Complex:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MadonnaWhoreComplex

I swear I thought it had to do with Madonna the singer...

He won't finish in 7 books but it's nothing to do with money, he simply has lost motivation and discipline.

I agree but I think he has gotten a wakeup call with the show. Like, IS PERSONAL NOW, BITCHES.

Terrific visual, thank you.

I'm of the mind that Orphan Olly will have to pay the price. Little punk didn't voice his true reasons; For Muh Parents and The Potatoes. Maybe he'll lose a fight with Wun Wun over a bag of spuds? I saw a tweet suggesting the giant step on him, but a food fight might be best, LOL

A food fight with a giant, maybe? :lol:

I'm curious. What part of the episode did you guys hate the most?

For me nothing can't top Varys just showing up in Meereen in the most anticlimactic way possible, like "sup, what'd I miss?"

For a fraction of a second I thought it was Tyrion's imagination or some shit, but then I remembered that GoT doesn't do flashbacks or dreams or illusions

I mean, just compare that garbage to the Dance epilogue, a chapter even the staunchest haters of that book love. It's literally night and day

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.... as soon as Varys showed up I KNEW he wouldn't kill Kevan and Pycelle. That pissed me off.... ITS THE CLIMAX OF THE FREAKING BOOK WHATS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE????

And seeing them standing there felt like a slap from D&D... "lol, readers... look who should be dead but are alive... lolololololol"... I swear I felt PURE RAGE at the moment.

I share one of those opinions. Guess which one :P

As to Doran, I do think his plan in the books is dumb, but at least he has a plan. Show!Doran has peanuts.

Sansa isn't Dumb you bastard!!! <O>

[Le Cygne]

I swear I thought it had to do with Madonna the singer...

I can't stop laughing. :lol:

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The whole "light a candle" plan is so ridiculous that when I heard about it (those chapters I didn't watch) I thought it was a figurative advice a la Dumbledore saying "when everything is dark, turn up the lights!" in PoA. But no.. it was a real candle. "hon, when you're about to be raped/tortured/beaten/flayed, go and light a candle...".

A candle, for God's sake...

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I can't stop laughing. :lol:

Oh, come on... remember the 80s.. she was all "I'm so virginal, I'm so bad pussy, I'm so virginal....!".