Evidence that the Lemon Tree Was Not Originally in Braavos

[Lord Wraith]

It means Dorne will side with Aegon.

Arianna maybe but Doran is waiting for dragons. The ones that actually fly and breath fire.

[Archmaester Drew]

I understand that lemon trees are generally found in warmer climates, but why would Dany be in Tyrosh? Textual evidence says she was shipped out from dragonstone to Braavos.

Daenerys crossed the Narrow Sea many times.

The narrow sea was often stormy, and Dany had crossed it a half a hundred times as a girl, running from one Free City to the next half a step ahead of the Usurper's hired knives. -- ASOS, Daenerys I

:)

[Archmaester Drew]

No, no, no... "bittersweet."

Indeed! :)

[Archmaester Drew]

I agree, there is something yet to be revealed regarding the lemon trees (and the lack thereof in Braavos), or else Martin would not keep bringing it up. It may have started as a discrepancy, but he has said many times the story grows organically. Lemongate (like Watergate) is real.

I think Daenerys is legitimate, and confused about the location of the house with the red door.Dorne is one possibility, but one of the southern Free Cities makes the most sense -- particularly Tyrosh, as she speaks Valyrian with a Tyroshi accent.

What this portends, who knows? Hopefully we will find out in TWOW! :)

[Lord Wraith]

I do think that if there was a last second switch from Tyrosh to Braavos for Dany's childhood, then the merchant commenting on Dany's Tyroshi accent was definitely a holdover from that. And perhaps the brother to the Archon of Tyrosh as well.

Which makes me wonder why GRRM is now attaching the Tyroshi daughter to Doran's schemes. Is Dorne becoming the stand in for what GRRM originally intended for Tyrosh?

I'd imagine so.

I'm of the opinion that Daenerys is mixing up her childhood memories.

Doran, Oberyn, Willem Darry, the Sealord of Braavos. Four people knew Daenerys was in Braavos, three of whom signed this document and one of whom had it in his possession. Unless Doran was willing to forge these signatures (except Oberyn's), was lying to Arianne, was planning to create an alliance with false information, and was willing to provoke Braavos by falsifying the word of their Sealord, Daenerys was in Braavos in her early childhood.

However, we know Daenerys spent a significant amount of time in more southern regions, so the lemon tree might actually be down there. If, say, she and Viserys went straight from Braavos to Tyrosh, its pretty reasonable to assume that in her memories, the line between Braavos and Tyrosh got blurred. Basically, Daenerys was in Braavos, but her memories are of her time in another city and she assumes its Braavos.

Funnily enough, Tyrosh was part of the plan too. Arianne was going to be a cupbearer for the Archon of Tyrosh, and that's how she would meet Viserys. Also, the brother of the Archon of Tyrosh attended Daenerys and Drogo's wedding. I think Tyrosh and Braavos are both closely tied to Daenerys (she speaks with a Tyroshi accent, so maybe that's where she spent the most time) but she clings only to her association with Braavos. It could be there's something in place with Tyrosh that Martin doesn't want revealed just yet. This lemon tree business could just be him using the unreliability of childhood memories to simultaneously hide and hint at a future plot point.

Makes sense to me.

[Lord Wraith]

This whole thing seems to be to be raising more questions about Dany's past and who has been plotting for her.  Anyone else feel the same or am I just going mad?

[Lost Melnibonean]

This whole thing seems to be to be raising more questions about Dany's past and who has been plotting for her.  Anyone else feel the same or am I just going mad?

You are clearly going mad. Just remember, if you find yourself in a GRRM story stay the f@$k away from lemons.

[Lord Wraith]

You are clearly going mad. Just remember, if you find yourself in a GRRM story stay the f@$k away from lemons.

 

No considering the Tyrosh is the hotbed of Blackfyre pretenders and more recently a relation with Doran Martell there is something there.  Its probably crackpot but we need something to do till WoW.

[Lord Wraith]

On 6/20/2015 at 11:30 PM, Frey family reunion said:

As has been brought before this Tyrosh/Braavos mix up doesn't explain why Martin has been increasingly ramping up the idea that lemons are from Dorne and lemon trees don't grow in Braavos. This has started since the third book and seems to be increasing in crescendo as of the preview chapters that we're getting with WOW. Braavos was pretty much a blank slate until AFOC, so Martin could have fixed any issues re: the lemon trees early on. Or at the very least, don't have characters comment at all on the lack of citrus trees in Braavos, as he does in the Mercy chapter. I suppose it's possible that Martin's mistake could have been when he described Braavos as being a city devoid of trees, he forgot about Dany's lemon tree. And the preview chapters is just GRRM trolling the fans that brought up the theory on this board. It just seems to me if this was indeed a mistake GRRM could have used the Mercy chapter to explain it rather than exacerbate it. Someone could have told the character that was bitching about no fruit trees in Braavos that only the wealthy could afford to grow them in their gardens in Braavos, and boom problem solved.

Not only the Mercy chapter but the 

Spoiler

Sansa chapter

as well. Wouldn't keep coming up if it didn't mean something.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 10:42 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

After a brief review of the use of lemons in art and literature, my understanding is that the lemon symbolizes bitterness

HOLY FUCKING SHITBALLS

[Lost Melnibonean]

 

 

When we see lemons, things don't usually end well... In Sansa I, Game 15, she was looking forward to lemon cakes in the queen's wheelhouse, but her day ended with her prince's loathing and contempt. Samwell's early childhood went from snitching lemon cakes to contempt, abuse, and banishment by his father. In Sansa II, Game 29, Sansa went from enjoying lemon cakes with Joffrey at the feast following the first day of jousting to being escorted back to her cell by the Hound. In Sansa III, Game 44, Sansa and Jeyne (poor Jeyne) looked for lemon cakes in the kitchen, but at the end of the chapter learned her father was sending back to Winterfell. Sansa shared lemon cakes with the Tyrells before being forced to wed the imp. Before donning the ugly little girl's face, the kindly man gave a girl a drink so tart it was like biting into lemon. That made "no one" think of Arya's sister, and Sansa's fondness for lemon cakes.

In Arya V, Game 65, Arya offered to trade a fat pigeon for a lemon, but ened up at her father's execution. Jeor Mormont drank lemon in his beer every day. He still had his own teeth but his men mutinied and murdered him. At Bitterbridge, Renly's bannermen feasted on lemon cakes. Of course, Renly's campaign ened shortly thereafter. As Davos sailed with Stannis's fleet into Blackwater Bay, he observed Aegon's High Hill, dark against a lemon sky. That's an odd description for a sky, no? As Davos turned downstream, the mouth of the Blackwater Rush had turned into the mouth of hell.

At Edmure's wedding feast Catelyn noted that Ryman Frey had bathed in lemon water but failed to mask his sour sweat, and that Roose smelled sweeter but no more pleasant. The Feast did not end on a happy note. At Joffrey's wedding feast Tyrion had a slice of pigeon pie covered with a spoon of lemon cream. A few paragraphs later he stood accused of regicide. Cersei drank lemon water so tart she had to spit it out the morning she learned that Tyrion had murdered their father.

Lem Lemoncloak just reeks of bitterness and disappointment, and Doran's Water Gardens smell of lemons and blood oranges. Anybody think Dorne is going end up happy with their blood and fire? In The Queenmaker, Arianne noticed that Darkstar preferred lemon water to summer wine, and she served lemonsweet to Myrcella before Darkstar cut off Myrcella's ear amidst lemon orchards watered by a spider's web of old canals.

Stannis enjoys boiled eggs and lemon water for breakfast, and, well, I think we all know his end will be bitter and disappointing. In Jon IV, Dance 17, Stannis offers lemon water to Jon. Wisely, Jon refuses. Stannis drinks more.

The merry band aboard the Shy Maid enjoy a pike with lemon juice, but come on, who doesn't eat Pike without lemon? And Ysilla was from Dorne. Still, I woulda passed. Tyrion suspected Yezzan was drinking lemon water as the yellow whale bid on him and Penny. Tyrion served Nurse lemonsweet with the mushrooms from Illyrio's garden.The Green Grace accepted a goblet of sweeetened lemon juice from the Queen's hand, just before infected corpses started flying over the walls. Oh, and guess what kind of trees Daenerys has in her terrace garden in Meereen?

Oh, how the hell did I miss this one?

On the morning Sansa was forced to marry the imp, along with the new gown, Cersei sent her favorite scents for Sansa's use too. Of course, "Sansa chose a sharp sweet fragrance with a hint of lemon in it under the smell of flowers." 

[Isobel Harper]

37 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

 

  Hide contents

When we see lemons, things don't usually end well... In Sansa I, Game 15, she was looking forward to lemon cakes in the queen's wheelhouse, but her day ended with her prince's loathing and contempt. Samwell's early childhood went from snitching lemon cakes to contempt, abuse, and banishment by his father. In Sansa II, Game 29, Sansa went from enjoying lemon cakes with Joffrey at the feast following the first day of jousting to being escorted back to her cell by the Hound. In Sansa III, Game 44, Sansa and Jeyne (poor Jeyne) looked for lemon cakes in the kitchen, but at the end of the chapter learned her father was sending back to Winterfell. Sansa shared lemon cakes with the Tyrells before being forced to wed the imp. Before donning the ugly little girl's face, the kindly man gave a girl a drink so tart it was like biting into lemon. That made "no one" think of Arya's sister, and Sansa's fondness for lemon cakes.

In Arya V, Game 65, Arya offered to trade a fat pigeon for a lemon, but ened up at her father's execution. Jeor Mormont drank lemon in his beer every day. He still had his own teeth but his men mutinied and murdered him. At Bitterbridge, Renly's bannermen feasted on lemon cakes. Of course, Renly's campaign ened shortly thereafter. As Davos sailed with Stannis's fleet into Blackwater Bay, he observed Aegon's High Hill, dark against a lemon sky. That's an odd description for a sky, no? As Davos turned downstream, the mouth of the Blackwater Rush had turned into the mouth of hell.

At Edmure's wedding feast Catelyn noted that Ryman Frey had bathed in lemon water but failed to mask his sour sweat, and that Roose smelled sweeter but no more pleasant. The Feast did not end on a happy note. At Joffrey's wedding feast Tyrion had a slice of pigeon pie covered with a spoon of lemon cream. A few paragraphs later he stood accused of regicide. Cersei drank lemon water so tart she had to spit it out the morning she learned that Tyrion had murdered their father.

Lem Lemoncloak just reeks of bitterness and disappointment, and Doran's Water Gardens smell of lemons and blood oranges. Anybody think Dorne is going end up happy with their blood and fire? In The Queenmaker, Arianne noticed that Darkstar preferred lemon water to summer wine, and she served lemonsweet to Myrcella before Darkstar cut off Myrcella's ear amidst lemon orchards watered by a spider's web of old canals.

Stannis enjoys boiled eggs and lemon water for breakfast, and, well, I think we all know his end will be bitter and disappointing. In Jon IV, Dance 17, Stannis offers lemon water to Jon. Wisely, Jon refuses. Stannis drinks more.

The merry band aboard the Shy Maid enjoy a pike with lemon juice, but come on, who doesn't eat Pike without lemon? And Ysilla was from Dorne. Still, I woulda passed. Tyrion suspected Yezzan was drinking lemon water as the yellow whale bid on him and Penny. Tyrion served Nurse lemonsweet with the mushrooms from Illyrio's garden.The Green Grace accepted a goblet of sweeetened lemon juice from the Queen's hand, just before infected corpses started flying over the walls. Oh, and guess what kind of trees Daenerys has in her terrace garden in Meereen?

Oh, how the hell did I miss this one?

On the morning Sansa was forced to marry the imp, along with the new gown, Cersei sent her favorite scents for Sansa's use too. Of course, "Sansa chose a sharp sweet fragrance with a hint of lemon in it under the smell of flowers." 

Why did you put that in a spoiler tag?  I don't see any spoilers.

Quote

At Joffrey's wedding feast Tyrion had a slice of pigeon pie covered with a spoon of lemon cream. A few paragraphs later he stood accused of regicide.

Some users, who believe that the Strangler was in the pie not the wine, also believe that the poison was in the cream.

Quote

The merry band aboard the Shy Maid enjoy a pike with lemon juice, but come on, who doesn't eat Pike without lemon? And Ysilla was from Dorne.

I lost my "Red Wolf Cloak of the Rhoyne" thread after the forum update.  The thread discussed Griff's wolfskin cloak that he's mentioned wearing in every single chapter he appears in, but I remember also discussing this scene.  Lemon served with pike (or was it fish in general?  I think just pike.) symbolizes deceit from a female in some way.  Pike + lemon is also discussed somewhere in the Food Code of Ice and Fire thread.

By the time Griff appeared on deck, the pike was spitting and sizzling over the brazier whilst Ysilla hovered over it with a lemon, squeezing. The sellsword wore his mail and wolfskin cloak, soft leather gloves, dark woolen breeches.

I use these two lines as possible evidence for R+L=A+J.  The Shy Maid squeezes to depict this Aegon as having a Dornish (lemon) mother, but the wolfskin cloak, which makes an appearance in all of Griff's scenes, depicts his hidden, "cloaked" true maternity.  A "red wolf" is a Targaryen + Stark.  The cloak is "of the Rhoyne" where the maternal line is valued as equal as the paternal, hence the wolfskin cloak.

ETA: Young Griff also states (when Tyrion teases him about his hair color) that he dyes his hair blue "in honor of his mother."  Blue (ala the blue rose) is often associated with Lyanna.

[Lost Melnibonean]

19 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

Why did you put that in a spoiler tag?  I don't see any spoilers.

Some users, who believe that the Strangler was in the pie not the wine, also believe that the poison was in the cream.

I lost my "Red Wolf Cloak of the Rhoyne" thread after the forum update.  The thread discussed Griff's wolfskin cloak that he's mentioned wearing in every single chapter he appears in, but I remember also discussing this scene.  Lemon served with pike (or was it fish in general?  I think just pike.) symbolizes deceit from a female in some way.  Pike + lemon is also discussed somewhere in the Food Code of Ice and Fire thread.

By the time Griff appeared on deck, the pike was spitting and sizzling over the brazier whilst Ysilla hovered over it with a lemon, squeezing. The sellsword wore his mail and wolfskin cloak, soft leather gloves, dark woolen breeches.

I use these two lines as possible evidence for R+L=A+J.  The Shy Maid squeezes to depict this Aegon as having a Dornish (lemon) mother, but the wolfskin cloak, which makes an appearance in all of Griff's scenes, depicts his hidden, "cloaked" true maternity.  A "red wolf" is a Targaryen + Stark.  The cloak is "of the Rhoyne" where the maternal line is valued as equal as the paternal, hence the wolfskin cloak.

ETA: Young Griff also states (when Tyrion teases him about his hair color) that he dyes his hair blue "in honor of his mother."  Blue (ala the blue rose) is often associated with Lyanna.

I stuck all that stuff to reduce the number of eyes glazing over when they see my posts.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

On July 30, 2015 at 6:12 AM, Lord Wraith said:

This whole thing seems to be to be raising more questions about Dany's past and who has been plotting for her.  Anyone else feel the same or am I just going mad?

I hear you...

also just wanted to point out that the marriage pact signed in Braavos doesn't mention Dany at all... Just Viserys, and presumably was signed before the red door closed for a last time.

Since then, Viserys and Dany were "on the run from hired knives"... Which we know was a lie... Before ending up at Illyrio's Manse.

Also, when talking about Illyrio, while Bravo is a word itself, it sure seems the basis for the name Braavos... So wether Illyrio was from Braavos, since he was a Braavo in his youth, isn't assured but is a still a possibility.

But he is described as a fat man with a yellow beard... In fact yellow seems to be his color... Ok ok so "Bravo" and yellow... Hmmm, but wait there is more...

Syrio Forrel was once the First Sword of the Sealord of Braavos (which one isn't clear) but he tells the story of a fat yellow cat, who's motto is see what is there and not what you expect... Illyrio is always described as seemingly too light on his feet...

And his buddy Varys told us a short sob story about his privates being fed to a flame... And then the sorcerer told him "he supposed he should die"... Now Varys has been known to disguise himself...

Now I'm not sure this story can be trusted... But, What does this sound like? Hmmm men sacrificing parts of themselves, hating magic, disguising themselves, and after, "all men must die"? 

before the truth is learned, the "sweet" lies seem to be another repeated theme, in fact look at when character's call each other "sweet", Viserys-Dany/sweet sister, Tyrion-Cersei/sweet sister, Jaqen-Arya/sweet boy... Etc)

So you say the Lemon Tree is a hold over from when it was Tyrosh and not Braavos... I'd say the lemon standing for a "sour truth" and conversely a secret fits thematically with Braavos (the secret city, hidden from Targs), but if you use your eyes it doesn't fit... No trees...

Almost like the faceless men of Braavos can disguise themselves, but instead we have the location of the House with the Red Door as the disguise... And the fanciful characters of Illyrio and Varys popping up and pulling the strings...

but you know... Tinfoil and a grain of salt and all that...

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

On 12-4-2016 at 3:42 PM, Isobel Harper said:

Some users, who believe that the Strangler was in the pie not the wine, also believe that the poison was in the cream.

If it was in the cream, it wasn't in the pie, now was it?

On 12-4-2016 at 3:42 PM, Isobel Harper said:

I lost my "Red Wolf Cloak of the Rhoyne" thread after the forum update.  The thread discussed Griff's wolfskin cloak that he's mentioned wearing in every single chapter he appears in, but I remember also discussing this scene.  Lemon served with pike (or was it fish in general?  I think just pike.) symbolizes deceit from a female in some way.  Pike + lemon is also discussed somewhere in the Food Code of Ice and Fire thread.

By the time Griff appeared on deck, the pike was spitting and sizzling over the brazier whilst Ysilla hovered over it with a lemon, squeezing. The sellsword wore his mail and wolfskin cloak, soft leather gloves, dark woolen breeches.

I use these two lines as possible evidence for R+L=A+J.  The Shy Maid squeezes to depict this Aegon as having a Dornish (lemon) mother, but the wolfskin cloak, which makes an appearance in all of Griff's scenes, depicts his hidden, "cloaked" true maternity.  A "red wolf" is a Targaryen + Stark.  The cloak is "of the Rhoyne" where the maternal line is valued as equal as the paternal, hence the wolfskin cloak.

ETA: Young Griff also states (when Tyrion teases him about his hair color) that he dyes his hair blue "in honor of his mother."  Blue (ala the blue rose) is often associated with Lyanna.

Sounds interesting! Perhaps you can remake the thread, restart that discussion? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 4/12/2016 at 9:10 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

When we see lemons, things don't usually end well... In Sansa I, Game 15, she was looking forward to lemon cakes in the queen's wheelhouse, but her day ended with her prince's loathing and contempt. Samwell's early childhood went from snitching lemon cakes to contempt, abuse, and banishment by his father. In Sansa II, Game 29, Sansa went from enjoying lemon cakes with Joffrey at the feast following the first day of jousting to being escorted back to her cell by the Hound. In Sansa III, Game 44, Sansa and Jeyne (poor Jeyne) looked for lemon cakes in the kitchen, but at the end of the chapter learned her father was sending back to Winterfell. Sansa shared lemon cakes with the Tyrells before being forced to wed the imp. Before donning the ugly little girl's face, the kindly man gave a girl a drink so tart it was like biting into lemon. That made "no one" think of Arya's sister, and Sansa's fondness for lemon cakes.

In Arya V, Game 65, Arya offered to trade a fat pigeon for a lemon, but ened up at her father's execution. Jeor Mormont drank lemon in his beer every day. He still had his own teeth but his men mutinied and murdered him. At Bitterbridge, Renly's bannermen feasted on lemon cakes. Of course, Renly's campaign ened shortly thereafter. As Davos sailed with Stannis's fleet into Blackwater Bay, he observed Aegon's High Hill, dark against a lemon sky. That's an odd description for a sky, no? As Davos turned downstream, the mouth of the Blackwater Rush had turned into the mouth of hell.

At Edmure's wedding feast Catelyn noted that Ryman Frey had bathed in lemon water but failed to mask his sour sweat, and that Roose smelled sweeter but no more pleasant. The Feast did not end on a happy note. At Joffrey's wedding feast Tyrion had a slice of pigeon pie covered with a spoon of lemon cream. A few paragraphs later he stood accused of regicide. Cersei drank lemon water so tart she had to spit it out the morning she learned that Tyrion had murdered their father.

Lem Lemoncloak just reeks of bitterness and disappointment, and Doran's Water Gardens smell of lemons and blood oranges. Anybody think Dorne is going end up happy with their blood and fire? In The Queenmaker, Arianne noticed that Darkstar preferred lemon water to summer wine, and she served lemonsweet to Myrcella before Darkstar cut off Myrcella's ear amidst lemon orchards watered by a spider's web of old canals.

Stannis enjoys boiled eggs and lemon water for breakfast, and, well, I think we all know his end will be bitter and disappointing. In Jon IV, Dance 17, Stannis offers lemon water to Jon. Wisely, Jon refuses. Stannis drinks more.

The merry band aboard the Shy Maid enjoy a pike with lemon juice, but come on, who doesn't eat Pike without lemon? And Ysilla was from Dorne. Still, I woulda passed. Tyrion suspected Yezzan was drinking lemon water as the yellow whale bid on him and Penny. Tyrion served Nurse lemonsweet with the mushrooms from Illyrio's garden.The Green Grace accepted a goblet of sweeetened lemon juice from the Queen's hand, just before infected corpses started flying over the walls. Oh, and guess what kind of trees Daenerys has in her terrace garden in Meereen?

Oh, how the hell did I miss this one?

On the morning Sansa was forced to marry the imp, along with the new gown, Cersei sent her favorite scents for Sansa's use too. Of course, "Sansa chose a sharp sweet fragrance with a hint of lemon in it under the smell of flowers." 

Uh-oh, I have a feeling that the victory men will achieve by relying on dragon glass may be bitter sweet. . .

Quote

 

"We never knew! But we must have known once. The Night's Watch has forgotten its true purpose, Tarly. You don't build a wall seven hundred feet high to keep savages in skins from stealing women. The Wall was made to guard the realms of men . . . and not against other men, which is all the wildlings are when you come right down to it. Too many years, Tarly, too many hundreds and thousands of years. We lost sight of the true enemy. And now he's here, but we don't know how to fight him. Is dragonglass made by dragons, as the smallfolk like to say?"

"The m-maesters think not," Sam stammered. "The maesters say it comes from the fires of the earth. They call it obsidian."

Mormont snorted. "They can call it lemon pie for all I care. If it kills as you claim, I want more of it."

 

Samwell II, Storm 33

Consder this. . .

Quote

Valyria. It was written that on the day of Doom every hill for five hundred miles had split asunder to fill the air with ash and smoke and fire, blazes so hot and hungry that even the dragons in the sky were engulfed and consumed. Great rents had opened in the earth, swallowing palaces, temples, entire towns. Lakes boiled or turned to acid, mountains burst, fiery fountains spewed molten rock a thousand feet into the air, red clouds rained down dragonglass and the black blood of demons, and to the north the ground splintered and collapsed and fell in on itself and an angry sea came rushing in. The proudest city in all the world was gone in an instant, its fabled empire vanished in a day, the Lands of the Long Summer scorched and drowned and blighted.

Tyrion VIII, Dance 33

See, when that horn sounds and giant's wake from the earth, something, maybe Hardhome, maybe Winterfell, something is going to blow, and dragonglass will raindown. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

I am telling you, stay the f!@# away from lemons...

Quote

 

The first dish was 1) a creamy soup of mushrooms and buttered snails, served in gilded bowls.

...

He called for more wine. By the time he got it, the second course was being served, 2) a pastry coffyn filled with pork, pine nuts, and eggs.

...

Tyrion listened with half a ear, as he sampled 3) sweetcorn fritters and 4) hot oatbread baked with bits of date, apple, and orange, and gnawed on the 5) rib of a wild boar.

... Hamish left them, his place taken by a smallish elderly bear who danced clumsily to pipe and drum while the wedding guests ate 6) trout cooked in a crust of crushed almonds. Moon Boy mounted his stilts and strode around the tables in pursuit of Lord Tyrell's ludicrously fat fool Butterbumps, and the lords and ladies sampled 7) roast herons and 8) cheese-and-onion pies. A troupe of Pentoshi tumblers performed cartwheels and handstands, balanced platters on their bare feet, and stood upon each other's shoulders to form a pyramid. Their feats were accompanied by 9) crabs boiled in fiery eastern spices, 10) trenchers filled with chunks of chopped mutton stewed in almond milk with carrots, raisins, and onions, and 11) fish tarts fresh from the ovens, served so hot they burned the fingers.

...

12) Peacocks were served in their plumage, roasted whole and stuffed with dates, while Collio summoned a drummer, bowed low before Lord Tywin, and launched into "The Rains of Castamere."

...

Four master pyromancers conjured up beasts of living flame to tear at each other with fiery claws whilst the serving men ladeled out 13) bowls of blandissory, a mixture of beef broth and boiled wine sweetened with honey and dotted with blanched almonds and chunks of capon. Then came some strolling pipers and clever dogs and sword swallowers, with 14) buttered pease, chopped nuts, and slivers of swan poached in a sauce of saffron and peaches. ("Not swan again," Tyrion muttered, remembering his supper with his sister on the eve of battle.) A juggler kept a half-dozen swords and axes whirling through the air as 15) skewers of blood sausage were brought sizzling to the tables, a juxtaposition that Tyrion thought passing clever, though not perhaps in the best of taste.

...

16) Roundels of elk stuffed with ripe blue cheese were being brought out when one of Lord Rowan's knights stabbed a Dornishman.

...

Tyrion was toying with 17) a leche of brawn, spiced with cinnamon, cloves, sugar, and almond milk, when King Joffrey lurched suddenly to his feet.

...

A serving man placed 18) a slice of hot pigeon pie in front of Tyrion and covered it with a spoon of lemon cream.

 

So, the last of 18 dishes served to Joffrey just before he died was topped with a spoon of lemon cream.

[Jon Fossoway]

So what does GRRM thinks about lemons? Maybe he loves eating them.  

[PrettyPig]

On 4/12/2016 at 8:58 AM, LiveFirstDieLater said:

But he is described as a fat man with a yellow beard... In fact yellow seems to be his color... Ok ok so "Bravo" and yellow... Hmmm, but wait there is more...

Syrio Forrel was once the First Sword of the Sealord of Braavos (which one isn't clear) but he tells the story of a fat yellow cat, who's motto is see what is there and not what you expect... Illyrio is always described as seemingly too light on his feet...

This....is a great catch. 

Re: Illyrio possibly being a hidden bravo from Braavos and having ties to the FM - possible, I won't rule it out, but as Illyrio is also funding Aegon's return to Westeros at the same time that he's helping to fix the Volantene elections through shadow funding, I also won't rule out that somehow Illyrio was likewise involved in the ouster and replacement of a Sealord of Braavos too.   If Syrio was speaking metaphorically about the fat yellow tomcat present in the room with the (new?) Sealord, and that Sealord is in debt to said fat yellow tomcat, there's your link to Braavos.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

1 hour ago, PrettyPig said:

This....is a great catch. 

Re: Illyrio possibly being a hidden bravo from Braavos and having ties to the FM - possible, I won't rule it out, but as Illyrio is also funding Aegon's return to Westeros at the same time that he's helping to fix the Volantene elections through shadow funding, I also won't rule out that somehow Illyrio was likewise involved in the ouster and replacement of a Sealord of Braavos too.   If Syrio was speaking metaphorically about the fat yellow tomcat present in the room with the (new?) Sealord, and that Sealord is in debt to said fat yellow tomcat, there's your link to Braavos.

I would just like to proclaim that I too once twigged that Illyrio might be wearing a glamour. Praise me, praise me!

Although I never clocked the reference Syrio might be making... but I think that - if reference it is - is more foreshadowing than anything else. I doubt Syrio would have the need to make veiled explanations to Arya about a man she's never heard of or seen before.

(Although she does see him not long after... but I think it's a coincidence.)