If just one could survive, whom would you choose - Dany or Jon?

[Crastors Child]

Dany for me.

Look at the journey she has taken from running from safe house to safe house with her brother, to where she is today and what she has.

Jon (a great character) became Lord Commander, helped defeat the attack in the wall and brokered a deal with the wildlings.

Her journey and hardship have been more difficult and I vote she lives and Jon dies.

[PhoenixfromAshes]

Jon Snow.

Dany's epiphany from her last chapter in ADWD looks pretty bleak, that could be very dangerous.

[Visenya Stark]

I don't want Dany to die. I hope she goes back to the house with the red door and lives out the childhood she never had. But if I had to choose between her and Jon, I want Jon to live.

[Nerevanin]

There is a big difference between Dany making mistakes when trying to help free slaves and Jon breaking night watch policy, compromising the security at the wall, out of a selfish reason to rescue his sister. Jon and Robb screwed up for selfish reasons. They got what they got because maybe, just maybe, there is a little bit of justice. So, when news that his family is in trouble Jon decides he's going to leave his post. That's not what you want in a comrade in arms, much less a leader. Jon Snow couldn't get a job waiting on tables today. Robb broke his war pact just so he can pursue his love. Selfish. Dany, out of the three, was the only one who could set aside what she wanted in order to help others. She agreed to sacrifice love in order to help the people. Robb broke his alliance because he chose not to sacrifice love. Robb chose personal happiness over his responsibility to his men and his allies. This is not about Robb, but I think the example is enlightening since Jon is very similar to Robb in the choices he made in A Dance with Dragons.

Jon has some good qualities, but George made it clear early on that this boy would leave his post for his family. Perhaps the only way to make him more likely to stay at his post, his command, is to kill off all of his remaining siblings. He got what was coming to him.

I pick Dany to survive.

I have a feeling that we read completely different books. Yes, Jon did a mistake when he decided to leave his post but in my opinion he did the best he could once he decided to leave - he told it to his brothers and didn't order them to go with him. You can see that much of the brothers supported him. And Jon cares a lot for others - so much that he let the wildlings pass the Wall instead of leaving them there to die. He went to negotiate with Mance and Tormund to save lives while risking his own!

Robb broke his word when he married Jeyne but that definitely wasn't for his own happiness. He decided to marry her because he slept with her and he took responsibility for his action. It's not a nice thing to broke your word but Robb did what he thought he was supposed to do to save Jeyne's reputation and he was well aware that it was a mistake.

Daenerys on the other hand, is very cruel and very merciful at the same time, but she uses is everytime at the wrong time. What bad things she did? She let her brother to be killed, she let a woman used dark blood magic, she burnt a living human, she sacked Astapor (I wouldn't be much surprised if she broke the guest right there), she attacked Yunkai, she crucified 163 people only because they were from higher society and she didn't care at all if they had anything to do with the children, she was too busy f**king Daario to take care of her dragons and due to her lack of care they grew uncontrollable, she brought chaos to the Slaver's Bay. What good things she did? She freed some slaves, yes, but she had no idea what to do with them so she let them follow her and eventually let them starve and die from the pale mare.

Dany. She deserves to live a long and happy life after bringing freedom to Slaver's Bay.

Jon is a dumbass who can't keep to his vows to the night watch. He deserved to get stabbed by his own men. Bowen Marsh and his boys have the right of it. Jon had to go, for the good of the night watch. He became a liability as soon as he decided Arya was worth more than defending the Wall. He's already dead. I say just let it stay that way.

Freedom? Rather bloodshed and chaos.

Dany for me.

Look at the journey she has taken from running from safe house to safe house with her brother, to where she is today and what she has.

Her journey and hardship have been more difficult and I vote she lives and Jon dies.

As someone in this thread already said, she was always in the position of power, first thanks to Drogo, then thanks to dragons. Where is she today? Lost in wilderness because she couldn't control a dragon at all. What does she has? A trail of chaos and carnage after her army, a realm that is turning against her, pale mare before her gates, a proof that she is uncapable to rule one city. Quite an accomplishment, really.

EDIT: after this post it might seem that I'm a Dany-hater which isn't true but I just don't approve of her actions ever since the sack of Astapor.

[RedShirt47]

I would prefer Jon lives. He has forsaken thrones and glory and fights to save the realms of men.

Dany will take HER throne with FIRE AND BLOOD!

[Ser Hightower]

Jon only cares for whats best for the realm. Jon is the more natural leader - evidenced by even the wildlings loving him. Jon has no ambitions for a crown or throne, and it's kind of ironic because he's the rightful heir.

Dany is motivated by crowns and thrones, and even though I think she has a good heart - she's too whiny and has to force / buy people to follow her. Even fAegon has more of a natural (un forced) following than Dany.

Jon with his leadership alone has motivated an entire army of wildlings to fight and die for him.

Without Jon, Dany wouldn't even have an Iron Throne to sit on.. so my answer is obviously Jon.

[The Holy Goat]

Jon Snow. I feel he's the most likely to die though.

[Hoppy Hour]

Jon.

[Ultima II]

I have a feeling that we read completely different books. Yes, Jon did a mistake when he decided to leave his post but in my opinion he did the best he could once he decided to leave - he told it to his brothers and didn't order them to go with him. You can see that much of the brothers supported him. And Jon cares a lot for others - so much that he let the wildlings pass the Wall instead of leaving them there to die. He went to negotiate with Mance and Tormund to save lives while risking his own!

Robb broke his word when he married Jeyne but that definitely wasn't for his own happiness. He decided to marry her because he slept with her and he took responsibility for his action. It's not a nice thing to broke your word but Robb did what he thought he was supposed to do to save Jeyne's reputation and he was well aware that it was a mistake.

Daenerys on the other hand, is very cruel and very merciful at the same time, but she uses is everytime at the wrong time. What bad things she did? She let her brother to be killed, she let a woman used dark blood magic, she burnt a living human, she sacked Astapor (I wouldn't be much surprised if she broke the guest right there), she attacked Yunkai, she crucified 163 people only because they were from higher society and she didn't care at all if they had anything to do with the children, she was too busy f**king Daario to take care of her dragons and due to her lack of care they grew uncontrollable, she brought chaos to the Slaver's Bay. What good things she did? She freed some slaves, yes, but she had no idea what to do with them so she let them follow her and eventually let them starve and die from the pale mare.

Freedom? Rather bloodshed and chaos.

As someone in this thread already said, she was always in the position of power, first thanks to Drogo, then thanks to dragons. Where is she today? Lost in wilderness because she couldn't control a dragon at all. What does she has? A trail of chaos and carnage after her army, a realm that is turning against her, pale mare before her gates, a proof that she is uncapable to rule one city. Quite an accomplishment, really.

EDIT: after this post it might seem that I'm a Dany-hater which isn't true but I just don't approve of her actions ever since the sack of Astapor.

From the start, let me admit to being a Jon-hater and a Robb-hater.

Ok, now that we got that out of the way, let me jump in between this conversation and share my thoughts.

1. There is no question that Jon committed treason. Even he knew that. Look, he executed Janos Slynt for disobedience. All well and good, he needed to do that to uphold the harsh standard of the night watch. No problem, so far. Soon after, he allows Mance Rayder, a man who was responsible for the deaths of many brothers off the hook, just so he can send the man on a secret mission to steal away the bride of the heir to the North. And then, he decides to form a Wildling posse to confront the Boltons. The reason for bringing the Wildlings is to have them help the NW guard the Wall. And then, he decides to pull them from their posts, just to rescue one runty sister! It is very clear why his brothers wanted to kill him. Jon was a hypocrite. He wanted to maintain "standards" but failed to live up to them himself. A man of the watch is expected to make sacrifices, place the Watch over his family, and dedicate himself to his duties at the Wall. The Lord Commander himself failed to live up to it, so his men got rid of him. Simple as that.

Robb pretty much did the same things. He executed an ally who served him in war, for breaking his command. Sure, Karstark deserved to be punished. Maybe he deserved to be executed. But the problem was that when Catelyn released the Kingslayer, he allowed her a lot of slack. She got away with it, unpunished. Robb was all about talking duty and justice. And what did the idiot do? He breaks his part of the bargain with Lord Frey, after the latter had already paid their part. Robb, just like his half-brother, failed to uphold the standard. He punished Karstark for breaking the rule, and yet he himself cannot stick to the rule of keeping your promises. He was maintaining double standards. He was a hypocrite.

Liberating Slaver's Bay is a process. It's a continuing process and on-going. Unlike Robb's war campaign and Jon Snow's brief stint as Lord Commander, her liberation of Slaver's Bay is not yet complete. We will have to wait and see how that plays itself out. As far as always being in a position of power, well, not really. She was not always in a position of power. And, I would argue with you that Robb got a better start, since Robb never really was in a situation where he lacked for power, until he crossed Walder. Jon was a bastard, but his noble roots gave him an edge, evident in sword practice, being able to read, as well as catching the eye of Mormont. So, no, it is not like Dany was given everything, and Jon got nothing to help him along. They all had advantages on their side, which is realistic. Even in our world, people who get ahead has something that helped them along the way.

[sweetsunray]

Liberating Slaver's Bay is a process. It's a continuing process and on-going. Unlike Robb's war campaign and Jon Snow's brief stint as Lord Commander, her liberation of Slaver's Bay is not yet complete. We will have to wait and see how that plays itself out. As far as always being in a position of power, well, not really. She was not always in a position of power. And, I would argue with you that Robb got a better start, since Robb never really was in a situation where he lacked for power, until he crossed Walder. Jon was a bastard, but his noble roots gave him an edge, evident in sword practice, being able to read, as well as catching the eye of Mormont. So, no, it is not like Dany was given everything, and Jon got nothing to help him along. They all had advantages on their side, which is realistic. Even in our world, people who get ahead has something that helped them along the way.

Whot? Robb's war campaign was an ongoing process and Jon Snow's efforts against leaving Wildlings north of the wall to become part of the Others' army and repopulating the NW's castles and the wall is also an ongoing process. The only reason it was halted was because Walder Frey and Roose Bolton knifed him, and the TWO NW brothers (just TWO) knifed Jon snow. It's not because traitors halted the process that it was never an ongoing process in the first place.

You can't even argue the process halted: Mormonts and others still only have one king as they claim... a Stark. Might not be outright war, but I wouldn't call it peace and kneeling for King Tommen either. And the wildlings and imo a majority of the NW aren't going to think kindly of Marsh & co.

Just to show the irrelevancy of your argument. Let's say the reverse happened: Dany gets knifed by the harpies and Jon is saved by Ghost. Would you then still argue that 'But Slaver's Bay is an ongoing process and the Wall strategy isn't'. Of course not. It would 'appear' just to be the other way around. Of course, Dany's death wouldn't solve the Mereneese knot, just as Jon's assassination won't suddenly save the NW and have KL sent an army of 10k of new NW brothers to the wall.

[Wolf's Bane]

rayarts, it looks like your question brought up a lot of tangentially-related topics. Oh well. Whatever. It's already off-topic so here's what I think.

The Starks look good on the surface. If you read closer you notice that they're not as honorable as they would like for you to think. Lyanna appears to have run away from her marriage engagement to Robert. Robb breaks his contract with the Freys. Jon. who I consider a Stark, breaks night watch rules and his vows. Catelyn arrested Tyrion Lannister, even knowing it would cause Tywin to over react. For all their talk of putting the safety of their smallfolk as high priority, picking a fight with the Lannisters surely was the opposite. Catelyn puts the need of her two girls over the needs of the men who was fighting for her family, releases the war's most valuable hostage, and cripples their bargaining position. I don't like the Stark family.

Alright let's get back on point.

I pick Daenerys to survive over Jon. I just cannot trust a Stark to make the right decision when personal matter gets thrown in the process.

[Aderyn]

I think Jon dying for a "second" time would be kind of pointless... i would much rather see him face that infamous bittersweet ending. Dany's death on the other hand could potentially have a lot more shock value. I'm not sure if I want to see either of them die but if I had to pick one I'd say Dany. But I have a feeling (which GRRM is welcome to crush) that both of them will survive but there will be no happy ending per se.

[Mithras]

1. There is no question that Jon committed treason. Even he knew that.

Wrong.

No man can ever say I made my brothers break their vows. If this is oathbreaking, the crime is mine and mine alone.

[Wolf's Bane]

Wrong.

No man can ever say I made my brothers break their vows. If this is oathbreaking, the crime is mine and mine alone.

Actually here is the passage it should refer to, Mithras:

Jon flexed the fingers of his sword hand. The Night's Watch takes no part. He closed his fist and opened it again. What you propose is nothing less than treason.

Page 909, from the paperback. Second paragraph.

Jon knew he was about to commit treason. And ofcourse it was oathbreaking.

[Julia H.]

Jon. Always.

[rayarts]

rayarts, it looks like your question brought up a lot of tangentially-related topics. Oh well. Whatever. It's already off-topic so here's what I think.

And so it did. But it was civil so far... Nothing against some poking here and there, ey? ;)

[Stormking Alesander I]

Daenerys Stormborn, the Unburnt, Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Khaleesi of Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Shackles, and Mother of Dragons

willing to bet most people will say Jon

Genocidal maniac, stupid girl and crucifier of innocents

[Ser Hightower]

Genocidal maniac, stupid girl and crucifier of innocents

Lol this ^

[SeanF]

Actually here is the passage it should refer to, Mithras:

Jon flexed the fingers of his sword hand. The Night's Watch takes no part. He closed his fist and opened it again. What you propose is nothing less than treason.

Page 909, from the paperback. Second paragraph.

Jon knew he was about to commit treason. And ofcourse it was oathbreaking.

"The Night's Watch Takes No Part" is a ship that sailed away, never to return, when Mormont wrote to all the contenders for the Iron Throne, asking for aid. Then, Stannis turned up at the Wall, saved the Watch, and had to be given aid in turn. The government in Kings Landing viewed the Watch as enemies from that point.

Cersei marked Jon down for assassination as soon as he was elected. As far as Jon knew, his sister was fleeing to the Wall. It was natural and right that he should try to intercept her, and save her from rape and capture. Finally, he responded correctly to a demand to surrender his guests to Ramsay Bolton. The Lord Commander of the Watch is not, and should never be, a doormat.

[sweetsunray]

"The Night's Watch Takes No Part" is a ship that sailed away, never to return, when Mormont wrote to all the contenders for the Iron Throne, asking for aid. Then, Stannis turned up at the Wall, saved the Watch, and had to be given aid in turn. The government in Kings Landing viewed the Watch as enemies from that point.

Cersei marked Jon down for assassination as soon as he was elected. As far as Jon knew, his sister was fleeing to the Wall. It was natural and right that he should try to intercept her, and save her from rape and capture. Finally, he responded correctly to a demand to surrender his guests to Ramsay Bolton. The Lord Commander of the Watch is not, and should never be, a doormat.

Agreed: when others do not respect your neutrality, then fuck neutrality. Belgium was supposed to remain neutral too, until troops walked all over our borders almost to France and were stopped at Flander's fields. Ramsay Bolton made a direct threat to the LC of the Night's watch for hostages he either didn't have (Reek and bride) or were there under guest right, and he couldn't surrender and what would have been a bunch of lies about Mance in their eyes, while nobody else ever gave them any aid, except for Stannis.